<p>"what do you do when she goes "ballistic" do you back off when she has her tantrum?"</p>
<p>Good question. And another reason for you and your husband to get advice from a therapist who can help you figure out what to do to assist your daughter in following through on her commitments.</p>
<p>It sounds like the OP has other kids going to college soon too. Is the daughter the oldest? Does this mean the other kids won't be able to get help (or as much help) with their college expenses as originally intended from the parents? Does the daugher know that what she is doing is going to affect her siblings getting help for college?</p>
<p>to the OP, we are not laying blame here, jsut asking some questions so we can help, so don't feel we are...sometimes the questions are short and to the point, but not meant to be judging at all</p>
<p>the history is important as it shows how D thinks she can act, it worked before, so she is hopeful it will work again</p>
<p>with her illness, was she able to get away with stuff that maybe she might otherwise not been able to, if the illness wasn't a factor, ie- chores, school work, work, and other usual life stuff</p>
<p>I can understand that happening, but it can't go on and on....there has to be as point where the D takes responsibility</p>
<p>my friends have a D who quit school, moved home and was "saving" money for an apartment, 3 years later.....</p>
<p>Oops - I seem to have goofed. For what it's worth, I didn't mean to imply that the time-honored occupations of food or retail service were somehow unworthy of a college grad who hasn't found a professional position yet; nor did I mean to direct the wrong kind of role model (a "promise breaker") into the important career of teaching. My intention was simply to suggest to the OP that a job her daughter could get excited about might be more accessible than it now appears.</p>
<p>I also don't think the ink is dry on this kid yet. To me, she'll be a promise breaker when she misses that first loan payment. She may be able to turn her situation around without missing a single one, especially if her parents set firm limits. I agree that the OP must not damage her own credit history, but she can have an agreement in writing with her child, requiring eventual repayment as well as certain terms of behavior for continued parental support. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Subbing (as one poster suggeted) or otherwise, teaching ought to be viewed as an honorable profession that requires ethics and character as well as intelligence.
[/quote]
Yup. I sure see teaching that way. But there are teachers who don't measure up - just as there are doctors, ministers, and world leaders who are similarly lacking. Come flu season, I imagine our school district would take the OP's d as a substitute.</p>
<p>"my friends have a D who quit school, moved home and was "saving" money for an apartment, 3 years later....."</p>
<p>My mom allowed my younger brother to do that for 15 years....</p>
<p>As did mine (although not for a full 15 years). When my younger brother finally did move out of my parents' home, he had to go to our mother, hand her cash, and ask her to write him a check for his apartment deposit, since he didn't have a bank account yet. </p>
<p>One way to help your daughter get going might be to take her down to the bank to set up her own account. If you want to transfer her some starting seed money, go right ahead, but make sure she knows that she needs to pay for her own phone, gas, (<em>cough</em>student loan<em>cough</em>) etc. using her own checks/e-payments from her own account from here on out.... and then further note that she needs to find a way to add funds to that account. That is to say, she needs a job. (Where they can direct-deposit her pay into said account.)</p>
<p>This could be a way to get her to start taking responsibility for her own life and commitments, and you might want to consider it, if she doesn't already have her own accounts.</p>
<p>I don't have a lot of other advice- but you do have my sympathy.
It is very difficult raising children- I see with my sister- whose 24 year old daughter is still living at home after college graduation- and who has a job, but a job she could have gotten without a degree from an expensive east coast university & who shows few signs of wanting to do more than go to work and come home and sit in her room.</p>
<p>I would also suggest- getting counseling yourself.
As I have learned, even as a parent, we can't change anyones thinking but our own. But getting insight into our own behavior, may also help others.</p>
<p>The OP indicated $1000 per month, but not all of it from student loans.
If daughter can get a full time job someplace with healthcare, that will take care of a big chunk right there.</p>
<p>The OP and/or her daughter has a moral imperative to pay back the loan. How can one justify even thinking about how to get out of it, after enjoying a top rate education at a top 10 LAC, when millions of honest students are out there going to second and third tier colleges or public colleges? Or going to CC for two years, saving enough money to finish up somewhere else? Has the meaning of sacrifice or delayed gratification been lost?</p>
<p>The daughter may have been incapable of comprehending the commitment at the age of 18 (I have a hard time with that though, if she qualified for a top 10 LAC), but the parents certainly did, and they cosigned on the loan- effectively saying "this loan will be paid back". A promise is a promise. By defaulting, one is contributing to higher interest rates and tightened availability of credit for all the other deserving students who are willing to do the right thing. They do not deserve to suffer. Pay back the loan.</p>
<p>Sorry if it seems like everyone is jumping on the OP, but paying back a debt is a moral issue; there's no way around that. Not very many people are going to take kindly to weaseling out of it.</p>
<p>Well, I am reminded of Al Frankens homily-
If you can't be a good example, you can be a horrible warning</p>
<p>I do admit that since a "top 10 LAC" is liable to meet 100% of need, I am imagining that the EFC/ income, was high enough, that outside loans besides Stafford/Perkins had to be taken out, if the package wasn't affordable.</p>
<p>It may be that other bills were too onerous to afford the EFC, but in which case, it obviously in hindsight, wasn't the best idea to then take out additional loans- I hope those students and parents who are wishing that everything will work out if their child attends a school that is beyond their budget- are paying attention.</p>
<p>If she attended a community college- she could get her loans deferred, work towards her degree and get a workstudy job on or near campus-
Don't let her sit at home- it isn't too late to make a new path but the longer she waits the harder it will be.</p>
<p>To the OP ... this is tough situation I hope things work out well for you.</p>
<p>To this post we've only had to deal with this possibility in the abstract (our kids aren't old enough to be in this situation yet) but we know our approach and yes the kids already know what is coming.<br>
* After they graduate we'd like them to move out but they can some home for a year ... after that year is over they are getting the boot (unless there are complications)
* If they are living in our house after college they must work ... it can be the local 7-11 ... they can not sit around in the house.
* During that year they are responsible for rent (to us) and some bills (this will be adjusted depending on their income).</p>
<p>Essentially we will give them a safe place to land, they have some time to figure out what's next, but they have to get their act together and start to move on, and while doing this they must help pay their own way.</p>
<p>To all.
1) We are going for family therapy, and she also sees the therapist individually. However, her condition seems to be worsening.</p>
<p>2) Of course, I intend to pay back the loans.
I was really more interested in learning the tough love aspect of this. As one contributor correctly observed, the bank doesn't care who signs the check, they just care that they get their money. So if she defaults, and we pay back the loans to protect our own credit rating, she still comes off smelling like a rose. If thats the case, what lesson has she learned?</p>
<p>3) I don't want to disclose too much about her medical condition, but its really draining on our family, both emotionally and financially.</p>
<p>4) I guess most of you have surmised by now that her medical condition is not purely physical. That's as much as I am going to disclose. I don't understand her illness, and I don't know how much she is capable of doing or not doing. She is working with a therapist, but the therapy does not seem to be helping, and I'm wondering if therapy can help.</p>
<p>I just want to thank OP for starting this thread. I learned a lot reading through it, and it's given me much food for thought. I appreciate your candor and wish you as painless a resolution of this problem as possible.</p>
<p>Just a quick question/comment:</p>
<p>Knowing that she would have substantial loans after graduation, why did she major in anthropology? It wouldn't have been difficult to add a more employable second major like economics.</p>
<p>OTOH, an anthropology degree from a top 10 LAC should be employable in a lot of fields, provided she puts in effort to find a job and presents herself well. At the IT consulting firm I interned with the summer, there were more than a few people with soft undergrad backgrounds.</p>
<p>Good luck - this sounds like a dismal situation.</p>
<p>Good question. I encouraged her to study something more practical. But of course, I know nothing.</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who has been in therapy more than once in her life, here's what will say about therapy. They aren't going to give you the answer to the problem. They ask questions, make you talk and think. They don't advice. That has to come from within. As far as antidepressents, I've taken my fair share. IMO, unless there is a underlying medical condition like bipolar where lithium can be a lifesaver, I've never had medication help me. I have never taken valium or xanax which numb you, not heal you. But prozac and the like never did anything for me. Depression for me, has truly been all in my head. No pill or doctor ever has had any effect. I have to talk myself out of it. And believe me, I have this 'talk' with myself on a regular basis. </p>
<p>I'm sure I'll get flamed by all the people who say how antidepressants saved their life, but for me, they did nothing. YMMV</p>
<p>Good Lord, this is the "perfect storm" of CC threads. It's got everything. Health issues, family dynamics, choice of majors vs. job prospects, the wisdom of borrowing for an elite private, balancing kid's desires with family finances...
Motherwise, you started a great thread. I wish you the best with your daughter and family. They should move this thread to the featured threads list!</p>
<p>It is not uncommon for college graduates to take a year off. Some travel; others work for a year or two then go back to grad school; some find their dream job right away; others try one job and another. And many have degrees similar to your D's, in the humanities or social sciences.</p>
<p>For you and your D, the issues that are common to so many families are complicated by her health which seems fragile, the need to continue the health insurance and to repay her loans.</p>
<p>But, besides continuing with therapy and seeking further counseling, what you might do is to sit down with her and talk about her strengths and skills and see what types of jobs might she want to look for, reminding her all the while that these jobs need not be what she will end up doing all her life. Is she well organized? Is she a good writer? Good with numbers? Does she have good people skills? does she like being outdoors? Depending on the answers to questions such as these, you and she might be able to come up with some types of jobs. Remember that aspiring actors and actresses wait on tables. That many college graduates work as receptionists or secretaries in colleges and private companies or as paralegals. </p>
<p>What I am trying to say is that more focused conversations could reduce the sense of panic she may feel at the prospect of looking for a job and confronting the knowledge that she has no special expertise in any.</p>
<p>Cosigning a loan is sort of like loaning money to a friend. You have to assume there's a good chance it won't be paid back. </p>
<p>But I'm not sure what the effect will be on your credit if she defaults. I would think that the lender is required to make a demand on you first before dinging YOUR credit. I would call the lender and ask. The advantage to waiting until she defaults is that it ensures that her credit will get damaged. To my mind, she may as well start bearing the consequences of her conduct. That's really the only hope here.</p>
<p>In any event, my biggest concern in this situation would be protecting the siblings. As an example, my grandfather re-married after his divorce and had 3 children. The first 2 were bright and healthy. The third was bright but had a recessive genetic disorder and died at the age of 16. During those 16 years, my grandfather and his wife put the bulk of their energy and resources into helping the sick child. This did a lot of damage to the other 2 children, who felt neglected. Neither of them ended up having particularly succesful relationships and neither of them ended up having their own children.</p>
<p>It may seem cruel or heartless, but I would consider putting strict limits on the amount of time, energy, and money I spent with this daughter. Someone who has mental problems and is selfish like that is likely to have problems her whole life. So it may be that the best thing you can do with the situation is to keep her from ending up on the street but making sure that the siblings don't feel neglected.</p>
<p>As another example, my older sister has mental problems. She is very childlike and selfish. She's never been able to hold down a job or a relationship for very long. Her only long term friends are my parents because they put up with her nonsense. Fortunately my family is wealthy so I never felt neglected by them taking care of her. But anyway, my sense is that she is the way she is and she's unlikely to change. I have speculated that my parents have contributed to the problem by enabling her to be the way she is, but my instinct is that she just is the way she is.</p>
<p>So, I wouldn't blame myself for the way your daughter is. But at the same time, I wouldn't hold out much hope that she will grow up. </p>
<p>JMHO.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She is working with a therapist, but the therapy does not seem to be helping
[/quote]
If it's not helping, try another therapist. It's such a personal relationship that she may have to go through several therapists before she finds one that clicks.</p>
<p>"But I'm not sure what the effect will be on your credit if she defaults."</p>
<p>It will hurt them big time. H and I had to pay a higher second mortgage rate this year because older S several years ago didn't pay a cell phone bill that H had cosigned for.</p>
<p>As for the therapist, it could be that the therapy is "not working" because the parents are enabling the D by giving way to her temper tantrums and allowing her to live rent free and without worrying about her loans. Some self centered people would prefer to live like that instead of getting a job that they felt was beneath their education, but would allow them to pay their debts. </p>
<p>Consequently, I think it could be a very good idea for the parents, or at least the mom, to go to individual therapy to get a perspective on what they can do to address the problem.</p>
<p>Whatever your D's health problems are, the fact that she was able to get a degree from a top 10 university indicates she has the ability to rise to challenges, and there's a very good chance she is employable.</p>
<p>I have a lifelong history of depression, and only a couple of years ago was able to end that problem due to taking antidepressants. Still, for most of my life, I was employed, and paid off my student loans on time without missing a payment.</p>
<p>I have friends who have a variety of health and mental health issues who are employed. This includes having problems like MS, cancer, and being bipolar.</p>
<p>If your D wasn't able to get through college due to her health problems, I would not be as strongly suggesting tough love. But it does seem as if her current unemployment is due more to her not wanting to work than her being unable to work. Of course, I'm not her parent or her therapist, so am only giving an uninformed opinion.</p>