<p>Dontpanic: Good catch. If she hasn't graduated, the situation is a little different.</p>
<p>the OP needs to really look at what D is capable of, emotionally at this point, and if she is not capable of working, that is pretty serious</p>
<p>If she doesn't want to work, that is a whole other kettle of fish</p>
<p>to the OP- has your D used her ailment to get away with certain behaviors, ie going ballestic and getting away with not doing things because she is sick</p>
<p>Or is her sickness bad enough that she can't physically do things</p>
<p>I ask because just maybe, and I am throwing out ideas, with little to go on, but maybe D has discovered if she acts a certain way, she can get away with certain things</p>
<p>Or maybe she really is getting "worse" , for lack of a better term</p>
<p>Mom needs to try and figure out how much is "real" when it comes to how D is acting, and how much is D just acting out</p>
<p>I say this because I had a friend whose S was sick, and he acted like a brat, using his ailment to behave badly, mom had to let him know that just because he was sick that didn't mean he could behave badly</p>
<p>I really am clueless as to what is going on in this case, so am just throwing out ideas to consider</p>
<p>If the D really is sick, then paying the loans, while important, is not the only real concern here, a mental health specialist really needs to be brought in who is better able to deal with this then her therapist is</p>
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I don't know where you live and each state msy handle it differently, but a great way to make some money is to substitute teach.
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<p>This assumes that the daughter has some drive, which is in question. </p>
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While I agree that some people "just can't be helped" and their parents might eventually choose to steer clear of them, I think it's WAY, WAY premature to suggest that this girl is like that.
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<p>I'm not sure about that. What kind of person asks a family member to extend himself or herself like that and then turns around and spits in their face? What kind of person hinders the college education of their siblings like that? Someone who is seriously lacking in consideration for the rights and feelings of others.</p>
<p>It's possible that a 4 year old, or even a 6 year old, might act with that level of selfishness but eventually grow up. But a 20 year old? Honestly, I doubt it. I'm no psychiatrist, but in my opinion as a layman, a 20 year old who acts that way has something important missing from his or her brain and is unlikely to grow that missing part.</p>
<p>JMHO.</p>
<p>That's one thing I thought, CGM, but didn't want to say. Is it possible she is kind of feigning the entire crying spells, "I don't want to pay this money back" thing for attention or something?</p>
<p>I may be totally off base, but having known people that do that, and see that it can work, it is something that needs to at least be considered</p>
<p>Either the D is really sick and therefore needs some serious help, or she is not that bad and is using her ailments and her history to get out of commitments and responsibility, it could be inbetween, but mom needs to figure out how much is real and how much is the D creating drama to get what she wants</p>
<p>I am not to say, as I don't know all the details, but that is a possiblity</p>
<p>I actually don't think her post college adjustment reaction is so uncommon. There are lots of kids out there who have had to settle for jobs as college educated waitresses or bank tellers etc. Other kids and parents who have had to feel the pain of the ugly threat of inevitable school loans...and there will be more with todays financial climate.</p>
<p>I stongly feel that picking up her payments right away is the wrong thing to do. I've had to defer my school loans at least four times in the last 20 years for unemployment, under-employment, and illness. As a single parent, I eventually had to declare bankruptcy (my parents died in the mean-time) so there was no 'bail-out) AND THE LOANS STILL didn't go away. (I eventually paid them off)</p>
<p>She MUST is some way face the reality that she is not yet working and not able to pay the loan...she must request the hardship deferral at least once. (I've done it for up to a year at a time). </p>
<p>If she won't even face the responsibilty of requesting a hardship deferral (which is usually just a phone call) then her problem might be more than just immaturity and selfishness.</p>
<p>Eventually - a year or more from now if she still hasn't come to a personal compromise with the fact that she took the loans and that SHE HAS A LIFE LONG DEBT PROBLEM WHICH BELONGS TO HER - then I acknowledge as others have, that you will have to pick up the loans you co-signed on because you will have to protect yourselves and the rest of the family. But if there is any way you can hold out and let her feel the discomfort for awhile, you will help her mature, taking the problem away from her is such a lie.</p>
<p>I feel badly for your pain, but I'm so grateful she's not in jail, or addicted, or worse. Her anxiety and immaturity isn't all that uncommon, maybe even a side-effect of our society's unrealistic expections of wealth and success in general, and certainly not worth destroying the parent-child relationship</p>
<p>I dunno I am really confused
the first two posts by motherwise-not even two months ago were regarding math scores for MIT and chances for her daughter to be admitted to MIT</p>
<p>Is another child currently looking at colleges?</p>
<p>Request enforcible agreements placing her, financially, in loco parentis relative to the siblings, certainly as it concerns their college expenses and loans (daughter liable up to whatever extent parents paid her loans). There is no principled argument that the daughter can raise against fairness to the siblings or protecting them from financial problems they did not create. Nor are there practical arguments since it does not require her to do anything until the siblings go to college (at the earliest). It is just a free option for the parents and a very useful one, because the daughter's answers when that option is floated are an effective test of her real intentions.</p>
<p>Can you see about a forbearance? If she can be certified as having a medical condition that prevents her from working, even if the condition is mental illness, then she (and you) may be able to get a delay on repayment on the loans, which will help with the situation.</p>
<p>motherwise, do you think your daughter is capable of working? Or, do you think she just doesn't want to work if her paychecks go to repay student loans rather than to setting up her own apartment? It's really difficult to advise without knowing the degree of real disability vs the degree of general whineyness.</p>
<p>My SIL got some sort of disability payments because it was determined that she was incapable of working due to depression.</p>
<p>Motherwise, can you clarify if your D actually graduated college or if she left college after one year? You say she attended. For those like Northstarmom who have said if your D was capable of succeeding at a top college for four years, that she should be capable of working, despite her illness, I agree. However, I am thinking that your D left school. That is a different situation. She should still work (and there IS work to be had....my 18 year old rising college junior earns $25/hour plus, I'm sure your D can find work), and be doing something productive but it is hard to tell why she may have left school and if the primary concern right now is her illness or just what. I hope you can go to a family therapist who can serve as an impartial third party to help set up expectations and plans for this coming year. I think posters are assuming your D is 22 and graduated college and I am not so sure. Could you clarify because the situation is different with a child who left school (and what those reasons were) and one who is now a college graduate who needs to be fully on her own (as well as paying back loans she agreed to pay as a condition of attending that college). The issues here seem to go beyond loan repayment.</p>
<p>If your D has a disability that prevents her working, she may be able to get her loans forgiven. One of my friends who has a major, documented physical disability that almost killed her and left her getting disability checks was able to have all of her loans forgiven.</p>
<p>Regarding MIT:
My daughter has a sibling. I love them both. But the sibling is a much easier child, my pride and joy.</p>
<p>I was asking about MIT for him. While I realize MIT is a reach school, I know he is qualified.</p>
<p>Before this brings up another storm, I made it very clear to him, after this debacle, that HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS LOANS. He knows it.</p>
<p>He is a very different child. He has been working ever summer since he was 12 years old. This is the first summer where he did not earn money: Because he received a full scholarship to do science research at a very prestigious institution. </p>
<p>I'm sure you can all understand why I don't want to jeapordize his future.</p>
<p>We also have at least 2 safeties for him that will give him a free ride. I'm not worried about him.</p>
<p>And if he takes out loans, I'm sure he'll pay them back. He's a responsible kid.</p>
<p>Someone once said to me that it must be difficult for her to have a sibling like him. I in fact did discuss this with the therapist, who told me that I should not feel guilty for being proud of him.</p>
<p>My daughter is a not an easy child. She never has been. She's been in therapy for years. She begged me to go to her dream school, stating she would be unhappy with the more affordable options. I, in fact, do think she would have been unhappy at the free ride schools, since she was very unhappy in high school. No one wants to see their child hurting.</p>
<p>My daughter is hurting now. She is very unhappy about her situation. She does seem paralyzed. She says we are putting pressure on her. I can't make her understand that it is life that is putting pressure on her, and by extension, our family. </p>
<p>This thread is off on a tangent. I really only wanted to know about how this would affect both my credit rating and hers. I know it is a very big problem, and it is very painful for our family. I want to help her. She sees medical professionals. I;m not sure that she is being helped. Complicating matters further is that at 21, she is a legal adult, so I don't have much say in her medical treatment ... except to pay for it. Hows that for privacy laws?</p>
<p>I want to help her. I love her, she is my child. I just don't know how. My extended family (my siblings, parents) also want me to use the tough love approach. They are very supportive of me, thank G-d. But in the end, its my child and my problem.</p>
<p>I had a sister who was mentally ill AND was the most spectacularly selfish human being to ever walk the earth. She died 30 years ago and the family still hasn't cleared up all the destruction. I've always wondered (in her case) whether she truly was "ill" or that her personality/behavior/character were so outside the norm that she was classified as ill because the alternative would be to say "evil." Which has nothing to do with the OP and her daughter (for whom I wish the best), but just something I've always wondered.</p>
<p>"I want to help her. She sees medical professionals. I;m not sure that she is being helped. Complicating matters further is that at 21, she is a legal adult, so I don't have much say in her medical treatment ... except to pay for it. Hows that for privacy laws?""</p>
<p>More reason to get a therapist for yourself -- to help support you and help you figure out how to emotionally and financially cope with the situation. This therapist should not be the same one that your D is now seeing. You need your own therapist.</p>
<p>Saying this as the mom of a troubled older S.</p>
<p>Mother, thanks for the clarification.</p>
<p>I'll offer a contrarian point of view...</p>
<p>Getting your daughter healthy seems to be your highest priority right now and for that I think you should be applauded. Getting documentation on your daughter's illness seems to be the best way to try and work with the lenders to delay repayment until she can get back on her feet and begin to have an income. You can also see if you could start an interest- only payment plan which might buy you some breathing room-- but don't wait for the first payment to be due before you contact the lender.... time is on your side now.</p>
<p>I am a huge advocate of tough love for typical adolescent behavior.... laziness, procrastination, perfectionism, etc. I would never advocate it for a case of mental illness so I think everyone here needs to back off the OP. Easy to tell the kid to dust herself off and get a job paying $25 an hour like Soozie's kid... harder to live with someone who may absolutely not be able to cope with life right now. A little empathy please for a kid who clearly has had a rough go of it, and is not the typically perfect CC child we all know and like to brag about.</p>
<p>However-- OP-- if your daughter has been in therapy for a while and you see absolutely no change, you need to find another therapist. The point of therapy is not to give your daughter ammunition to tell you to stop pressuring her-- the point is to give her the coping skills which will allow her to become a functioning member of society. My local Kinko's and public library are staffed by cheerful, competent people, many of whom have several degrees from top institutions. I don't know them well enough to ask what combination of life circumstances, mental illness, depression, etc. would take someone from Harvard Law School and put them behind a xerox machine.... but this individual is self-supporting, doing honest work, is adored by his customers, and seems to be coping with what comes his way. </p>
<p>Get a second opinion about your daughter's treatment plan, and continue to be proud of both of these kids who clearly have wonderful strengths and will no doubt make you very proud-- albeit perhaps in different ways.</p>
<p>Even though there are privacy laws, if your D gives written permission, you can meet with her therapist and learn about your D's condition -- within whatever constraints your D puts on the therapist's talking to you.</p>
<p>Actually blossom, my point was the same as yours. I don't think this is a case that is necessarily just about loan repayment. I am asking the OP if her D did indeed graduate from college because I am sensing (and asked her to clarify) if she left college after one (or more) years and hasn't graduated. I was saying that she is getting all this advice that her child should work etc. etc. and that might pertain to a regular teen with some growing up to do who is now an adult and needs to work once she graduates to repay loans and get on her own, but that would not necessarily be the same advice for a daughter who may have many problems right now (mental illness) who has left school (for reasons we do not know). The advice would be different. The issues have more to do with therapy for both the D and the parents as to what to do next, etc. Originally, everyone was rightfully saying "get a job!"....she managed four years at a top school, she can manage a job. And there ARE jobs besides some of the menial ones being suggested. They might not be in anthropology but a smart kid can even create work. But that advice is NOT necessarily the appropriate advice if the main issue at the present time is mental health and IF this daughter has left college. I don't know if the OP will clarify (I asked) if D has attended and graduated or has left college without a degree. She originally stated that D "attended." </p>
<p>So, my whole point is that the tough love of "get a job" that many wise members here are advising is right on if it is just bratty behavior and the D has graduated with a degree. But that advice is not necessarily the issue or the proper advice if D left college for a reason we do not know and is grappling with mental illness. In such a scenario, the therapy would be of prime importance and the loan agreement with the D would be worked out when she got on her feet with some direction. So, I am agreeing with you completely. But we don't know if she graduated and did fine while at school and now is being lazy or procrastinating and renigging on agreements with her parents and not moving on with her responsibilities OR if she left school for some reason and needs HELP. That is why it is hard to tell what to advise as these are very different situations.</p>
<p>I also feel for motherdear and agree with Northstarmom that the mom needs some counseling in how to deal with the daughter because the dynamics are really draining and not working and the D has issues. I worry that son is described as "pride and joy" and that while he is obviously the "easier" child, and the D is much more challenging (I have a similar thing in my family in that particular regard....one easy, one more challenging), that it not come across in the family that one is the pride and joy and one isn't, even though both are clearly loved. But one is definitely difficult to handle and so getting help with that would be beneficial.</p>
<p>well what I was thinking if the daughter had left college after one year- would be that the loans wouldn't be near as much obviously, if she had graduated after 4 years at an expensive college.</p>
<p>Plus- if she only has one year at college- she should be able to be successful at a community college- which could defer her loans and starting out small giving her a chance to regain her successful path.</p>