My daughter does not want to pay back her college loans

Parents Forum
101

<p>coping with life right now....many people seeing therapists go to work, and make it through the days and making it through the days, having a purpose, having to Do Something often helps someone who has stuff going on</p>

<p>if the D can't find a job because of her illness, which we still haven't learned how much is as sooviet says</p>

<p>this isn't just as simple as not paying back a loan- it needs to be paid back by somebody, and the OP needs to contact the lender, that is financial stuff with contracts</p>

<p>as well, if you cancel a loan due to having a mental illness, that reason will follow you around, unfair as that sounds</p>

<p>creditors can pretty much come up with a reason to not grant credit, and if depresssion, or whatever is going on is given as the reason, it will be on the girls record somewhere, not fair- yep, wrong-yep, but probobally reality</p>

<p>to just worry about the $$ is not the best plan, for if D is just being lazy and not wanting to deal with life, then this won't get better, and if D CAN"T deal with life, the money is the least of the problem</p>

<p>You will have to pay, and we are talking more about just the $$ because this site also helps others</p>

<p>If D was indeed able to graduate and now, eh, is just stressed about stuff and playing up on the health issues, and acting bratty then the situation needs to be handled one way, and that includes the $$</p>

<p>If D has serious mental health issues, serious enough to not be able to function at all, not even volunteering somewhere, then the $$ needs to be handled by the Parents</p>

<p>Does the D do anything, does she leave the house, hang with friends, shop, read, if so, then she can at least find somethng to do, even walk dogs</p>

102

<p>Everyone posting here has been just great trying to help the OP. I truly do not think the loan repayment is the issue. She has said her D attended a top school and is no longer in school, not that she graduated. The loan repayment cannot be taken out of context. I don't know if the OP is seeking advice beyond the loan issue but the advice others are willing to put time into giving is out of sync with the situation if the situation is not as people have assumed. From what I can infer, this is not simply about the loans and I do not think the D is a college graduate who came home to live, is not working, and doesn't want to pay back college loans now that she is done with college. I think the situation is different, but unclear to the rest of us, and therefore the advice is very much out of context to be helpful.</p>

103

<p>
[quote]
I worry that son is described as "pride and joy"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I winced at that. Ouch...</p>

<p>I speak as one with a younger brother that my parents, um, "exalt" more highly than myself. I'm different - and I think it's not too much to say that I had a harder life than him and have to deal with more **** than him, so it frustrates me that he gets all the pride and I get the problem-child label.</p>

<p>Now, your D is obviously way more of a handful than I am, but I wonder if she's in a similar situation. If so that kind of "why can't you be more like your brother" attitude - spoken or unspoken - causes a lot of resenment and can be a contributing factor to her acting out.</p>

104

<p>If D has left college without finishing, the NEXT step is therapy and working out what she is going to do next. Once all that is figured out and she gets on her feet with whatever was the reason she left school and/or getting more on keel with her mental health, then working out her obligation to the loans would be part of the plan. But I think the order of business is to work out the rest first, then the loan repayment plan, if indeed D did not graduate college and simply left.</p>

105

<p>is the D drinking, is she doing drugs, if she isn't looking for work very hard, what does she do with her time</p>

<p>I ask because if she is capable of having some fun, and doing things, then there is the chance of parttime work at least, or at least volunteering somewhere, ie the SPCA to start moving forward in life</p>

<p>It may be that things look huge and the D doesn't walk because she knows she can't run</p>

<p>Sometimes it is reminding us to take those small steps, small goals, and from there, the bigger stuff will follow</p>

<p>I have no clue, but as zoosermom pointed out, sometimes people are let off with not doing what life requires because they act out- and if they have been able to get away with stuff for a long time, why not keep trying the same stuff</p>

<p>you can't seperate the $ from the D, this is one situation she willingly took on and is now not following through, there will be others, so figuring out the reason behind it is important, or lifes patterns will indeed repeat themselves</p>

106

<p>DVR can help your daughter find work and get herself back on track-
<a href="http://www.disabilityresources.org/CALIFORNIA.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.disabilityresources.org/CALIFORNIA.html&lt;/a>
but I don't think we can really give meaningful advice if we don't know if she has graduated or how the illness affects working.</p>

<p>But I think we agree that you need assistance in dealing with your feelings regarding your family dynamics- and with painting the children as " pride & joy" vs- " a child who has been in therapy for years"/</p>

<p>I know what it is like to have children with different personalities- believe me- but they both are my pride and joy & while I know that one of them has at times- felt in the shadow of her sister- and has had a more difficult path- she is also amazingly resilient & I am very proud of her.</p>

<p>I have myself- been the "problem" child. My parents put me in therapy when I was 9. Its pretty easy for there to be a "problem" child and a " easy" one.
Much more complicated to support their weaknesses and to encourage their strengths.
The more parents support children- the more they feel they * need* to be supported and aren't competent.
She is obviously intelligent- but needs to work on her perserverance.
Illnesses can be managed-but the expectation needs to be there that they are still expected to contribute
Hawking is just an extreme example of one who is managing to do quite well with a severe illness.
I also know much younger students, one girl at my daughters school had lymphoma when she was 11. However, she still was able to earn straight As at a challenging private prep school.</p>

<p>I don't cite these examples to make you feel bad but to remind you , she is capable of more than she thinks.</p>

<p>It took me a long time to come out of the role of the difficult one- ( and required basically cutting most of ties with most of family). One thing that helped was to read autobiographies. Those we think of as very successful, often had pretty rough bits that they had to deal with. It helped me to read how others had dealt with their own dragons and come out the other side.</p>

<p>Ive also heard this book recommended
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400062756/ref=ord_cart_shr/102-6974079-4297744?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400062756/ref=ord_cart_shr/102-6974079-4297744?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

107

<p>Soozie- after years of reading, I would not know which of your kids is more challenging to you- car accidents aside ;) So, you've done well there, I hear pride from you regarding both your girls.</p>

<p>OP- take heart, sometimes when kids hit their bottom, life and their outlook changed. I have no way of knowing your circumstances, but I have seen some kids hit some scary bottoms and come back better and stronger than ever.</p>

<p>I would highly recommend a trusted therapist for you to talk over the situation and bounce off your ideas in a safe non-judgemental atmosphere. Since it is not just tough love, but some sort of mental/physical/emotional issue, you tread a fine line with tough love- there have to be some guidelines so she does not take advantage of you, but they may have to come in baby steps she can cope with, you could use a non-family member to help you stay on track so you are strong and not manipulated, but also following a good plan for your D's best hope for improvement in the future.</p>

108

<p>What is done is done at this point.</p>

<p>For others getting started in this process there are a lot of tools available out there to help you make rational decisions.
One such too is a debt / salary wizard that will calculate how much you need to earn to support a particular amount of loan.
The site can be found at: <a href="http://www.mapping-your-future.org/apps/debtwizard/index.cfm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mapping-your-future.org/apps/debtwizard/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you plug in the $1,000 a month payment for this specific case you get the following
based on 10 year 6.8% interest:
Question:
How much salary do I need to support my student loan debt? </p>

<p>Answer:
Based on student loan debt of $87,000.00 to be repaid over 10 years at 6.8 percent interest, my estimated monthly payment is $1,001.20.
To support repayment of the debt, I should earn at least:
• $72.20 Hourly
• $12,514.99 Monthly
• $150,179.83 Annually </p>

<p>In short, if you had known that you needed to earn $150K annually would you have relented to her wishes?</p>

<p>That is why my kid now goes to the state flagship instead of Cornell no matter how much crying & arguments occurred. After 1 year the kid has a newfound appreciation of the State school as a challenging & interesting place.</p>

109

<p>Where did you get that the OP's D owes $87,000? I don't recall such a post. We don't even know how many years she has attended college. Further, I recall the mom saying that $1000/month was needed...half for college loan, half for health insurance. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have two kids in college with a lot of loans (though WE, the parents, plan to pay off them ourselves, as we didn't want our children to pay but that is a different issue), and we will not have $1000/month per child. Anyway, right now, that is not the only issue for this family, it appears. </p>

<p>Somemom....one of my kids has been super easy....never has challenged anything, has never required a speck of discipline. The other is super terrific but has been more challenging. However, we are not dealing with mental illness at all like the OP so it is a different situation entirely that way. I love them both equally. Both are a pride and joy. If anything, the more challenging child gets more "public" attention and recognition due to the nature of what she does while the other child's achievements are quieter in nature. Our first child was the easygoing one. We later discovered that the second child was likely more of a "normal" teen and that the first one was more unusual in being so easy to raise. When both were in high school, I was thankful that both were not "typical" teens as it would have been even more challenging! Having an easy one helped, as those years can have their moments. But a challenging teen seemed to be more typical from talking to other parents than the one who was soooo easy. </p>

<p>Anyway, I feel for the OP because it can be challenging and they need help in how to deal with it as it is even beyond "typical" teen stuff and involves an illness. Getting help with all of it will be a positive step, and then once plans are in place for what D is going to be doing, then deal with the loan aspect. I don't think they can deal with the loan aspect in a vacuum.</p>

110

<p>xNYer, with all due respect, all the numbers you give hinge on one big assumption that you don't list. That site recommends that student load debt does not exceed 8% of your gross salary. In other words, they recommend your monthly salary be 12x your student loan debt. This is not a realistic ratio for many people.</p>

111

<p>Agreed--I don't know anyone who had that kind of salary to pay off student loans. The percentage obviously can be higher at higher salaries; it makes no sense to say it always has to be 8%. When my H was just out of residency, we paid a higher monthly payment than that (about 1400) on one third of the income you state.</p>

112

<p>The example listed by exNYer is as an extremely conservative methodology in allocating financial resources towards loan payments, or determining how much in loans is "acceptable". </p>

<p>Many parents and students have to take a much more liberal view of college loan aggregrates than that example would suggest.</p>

<p>It may mean that you defer the better apartment, new car, and trips to Cancun after graduating in order to pay back your loans.</p>

<p>$87 k is on the high side of aggregrate loan amounts from my understanding of the averages; most graduate with a quarter of that amount.</p>

<p>Just my $.02.</p>

113

<p>just cut her off...$1000 a month is probably less than your paying to support her now. Pay health insurance, and try to defer the loans.</p>

114

<p>motherwise, I know someone who, at age 23, made a verbal agreement with his parents that they would be in charge of his medical care. He was in a similar situation to your D, and I believe was arguing with his parents about how often to see his therapist when the family came up with this plan. Under this plan, the S signed over everything he could, and, more importantly, when they said "we want you to switch therapists" or anything like that, he did it. He was not happy about infantilizing himself in this way, but did it because he realized his situation was desperate and he was incapable of thinking clearly. He had nothing to lose. His parents must have felt much better because they were more in control of the situation, and were able to better take advantage of the services they were paying for.</p>

<p>This guy was a top-10 LAC grad. He has struggled with depression all his life, and will probably continue to do so, but he is much better. He worked for a couple of years, and is now in law school.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if this would be the right strategy for your family, but if D is willing, it's an option.</p>

115

<p>Without having read all the posts, where does the $500/month in health insurance costs come from? My children's policies (Blue Shield) cost $73/month plus a $2500/year deductible (HSA qualified), totaling about $300/month if they use up the deductible. I have had a $1000/year deductible for the last seven years and have met that amount twice in 7 years... and I'm 52. </p>

<p>Surely the health insurance costs could be lowered.</p>

116

<p>After my oldest d graduated from college and before she found a position with health insurance, the best she could find for a basic policy was $400-plus per month.</p>

117

<p>Dmd77 she also might be figuring the cost of prescription drugs each month. Even with insurance one of my kids has drug costs that run $120-150 each month.</p>

118

<p>Wouldn't someone going to a therapist regularly and perhaps on a prescription drug plan end up at around $500 a month? Either it isn't covered at all (especially if you've capped out) or you pay a whole lot more for insurance because of pre-existing condition?</p>

119

<p>Remember that under many plans, mental health coverage is capped at X number of sessions, and may be covered at a lower rate than other medical conditions. Our plan covers 24 sessions a year and pays 50% of R&C, which is NOT half of what most mental health professionals in our area charge.</p>

<p>Add to that prescription copays, and you could easily have several hundered a month in out-of-pocket before paying the insurance premium!</p>

120

<p>Even with insurance dealing with mental illness is extremely expensive. Weekly therapy bills, Psychiatrist for med management and the meds themselves. Many insurance companies do limit mental health visits unless the diagnosis is severe. Also many of the insurance plans designed for young adults would not have enough coverage for someone with mental and long term health issues.
Having live with multiple generations of mental illness in my family I can feel for you. It is frustrating and at times you do get angry at them. I have found that my family members were severely limited in their lives by their illness but also at times behaved very poorly.</p>