My daughter does not want to pay back her college loans

Parents Forum
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<p>We don't even know if the illness is a mental illness- but depression isn't necessarily permanent
Ive been hospitalized several times for depression and my father died in his early 40s by his own hand- apparently had manic depression which has a genetic link-
But I am doing Ok- actually great- without meds except for ADD although I admit it took me a while ;)
I certainly was not as acomplished as someone who was admitted to a top college in their late teens- Ididn't even graduate from high school.</p>

<p>However- I have an inkling that there is not just a little bit of enabling going on.
At the very least, I wonder if motherwise realizes that while her son may be her "pride and joy" as she describes is, one of her first posts asks about her daughters ability to be admitted to MIT.</p>

<p>A Freudian slip? or ?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
We don't even know if the illness is a mental illness- but depression isn't necessarily permanent

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Depression isn't necessarily permanent, but many mental problems are. For example, narcissistic personality disorder is basically untreatable.</p>

<p>Of course it's impossible to diagnose somebody based on the anonymous internet postings of a family member. But in my layman's opinion, an adult with a mental problem that makes him or her extremely selfish is unlikely to change.</p>

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<p>Narcisstic personality disorder -is something that crossed my mind too and I made mention of it earlier.
For those of you have have never dealt with it- be very thankful. For those who are giving reasonable and sound advice- it sounds good and it is real helpful for most people --
But if you are dealing with Narcissim- you may as well be talking to a brick wall. Nothing is going to change THEM. The only control you have is to change yourself. </p>

<p>I will again suggest for the OP to try to figure out what the underlying mental/physical issue is--
do lots of google searches
find on line support groups
read books- do research
It may not make the problem go away- but it may give you strength and support going through this ordeal with your kid.</p>

<p>In my situation with sibling (and elderly mom too)- I started google search for "lack of empathy"
I had vague recollections from "psych 101" many years ago- that this description was important re: mental health issues.</p>

<p>As I am now more aware of this personality disorder, I am able to deal with the relationship alot better.</p>

<p>And I definitely agree with lskinner- Narcisstic Personality is basically untreatable. The Narcissist doesn't think anything is wrong with them.<br>
I wish you the best of luck and hope it all works out ok.</p>

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<p>kity, I'm wondering about the ??s, too. There have been a few recent posts which have caused me to wonder.</p>

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<p>Regardless of what the "true story is", this can be a scenario that will play out in many of our households.<br>
Alot of our kids will find themselves saddled with debt- as parents- we too may have signed or co-signed on their student loans.<br>
In a blink of an eye- our kids may have illnesses (auto accidents, cancer, mental illness) and they will be unable to pay their college loans back.</p>

<p>I think this is a cautionary tale FOR ALL!!</p>

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<p>You know, the OP made it pretty clear that this was a painful subject for her in lots of ways and asked more than once that the discussion be confined to the financial consequences around either taking over the loans, not taking them over, or whatever and now I am reading posts about personality disorders?</p>

<p>I am kind of shocked at the insensitivity bordering on cruelty from some of the posters speculating about something that the OP has asked not be hashed out. Karma can be a B*** and I hope none of you who are hectoring the OP or going on about personality disorders (which by the way would be very hard to diagnose this early since so many of the symptoms look like normal adolescent personalities!) ever have a kid crash and burn, although it would serve you right if you did.</p>

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<p>To the OP, I am sorry that your family is having problems. I am glad to hear you are getting therapy. This must be a very difficult time for you.</p>

<p>I don't know much more about this than what has already been written, and I certainly won't compare your situation with mine, but I would remind you that your situation affects mine. I have children in college, we have loans. If people don't pay back their loans that cost gets distributed in the form of higher interest to other families or in some instances tax payers. I was pleased to see that you are committed to having her loans paid in a timely manner. </p>

<p>I wish you and your family great success in resolving your problems and in having a happy, healthy and successful future.</p>

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<p>Mombot --I hope that was not directed towards me.<br>
It is only because some personality disorders are devasting and do affect the entire family- it was brought up in very general terms. In fact in each instance, I suggested they do research about it.</p>

<p>There are certain situations in life that have No good solutions. But understanding the situation may help one cope better.</p>

<p>And as the OP mentioned that therapy was not at all helpful and may be making the situation worse, it seemed that it was necessary to "clue" the OP in on certain conditions.<br>
A little knowledge can potentially save someone alot of years of anquish.</p>

<p>But one must always RESEARCH and READ up on any medical/psychological condition and then CONSULT with a PROFESSIONAL.</p>

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<p>In a blink of an eye- our kids may have illnesses (auto accidents, cancer, mental illness) and they will be unable to pay their college loans back.</p>

<p>too true- which is why I will paraphrase what doubleplay said on another board- and it was that while some students/parents may feel that an expensive small college is the only option for someone with 'issues", whether they be social /mental or whatever, at larger schools, there may be more of a cohort of students who share your concerns/quirks, and so more support is available as well as resources.</p>

<p>even in real life, if someone asks me for advice- I am going to bring up other considerations if relavant even if they don't want to think about it.
If someone wants stomach surgery to lose weight for example- and really doesn't want to hear what they should be trying first- then they shouldn't have asked me ;)
Or if someone wants advice re: a parenting concern, but they are ignoring ongoing issues that are going to ensure a repeat of the incident, if those aren't changed- there isn't a lot I can help them with, if they aren't ready to look at all the contributing factors.</p>

<p>Someone may ask for advice, and not really want it.
A student who asks for ways to be considered a resident of another state, doesn't want to hear that - in most cases, unless your parents live there & that is where you graduated from high school, you aren't a resident.</p>

<p>Anytime you co-sign a loan, that is a contract that someone is liable for-and it should be determined if the loan is really necessary & if you can bear the consequences if the initial recipient defaults.</p>

<p>We don't know enough about the original instance- but others are reading this & some of the advice may be applicable to future situations.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My daughter attended to a top 10 LAC. It was her dream school. When she was admitted, she begged us to let her go. We are not wealthy, and we qualified for financial aid. Some of the aid came in the form of loans.

[/quote]

My daughter attended a top LAC as well- and we are also not wealthy. As well as taking out Perkins and Stafford loans every year which don't require co-signers- so as I mentioned earlier- because actual information hasn't been given- were loans for above and beyond EFC taken?
I have told both my kids, that we will pay the EFC, or at least most of it.
I feel, if at all possible, that is a parents responsibility- although I do know with some self employed parents-etc- that EFC bears little relation to being reasonable.
But still, I feel it is a different scenario if she has not only taken out loans for above EFC, but for her EFC as well. It would seem like she had received poor advice in that case.</p>

<p>
[quote]
She will also no longer qualify for medical insurance, which she needs, because she has a chronic medical condition (which was part of the reason we gave in to her to go to the LAC). I'm figuring that the combined hit of these two financial obligations is gong to come to at least $1,000 a month

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Is $1000 a month an estimate or a figure pulled out of the air?</p>

<p>For</a> Petes sake figure out the bill</p>

<p>If it was my kid- and I know it would be hard- but the only information that I have heard about crying and going ballistic, is that this young woman has some sort of genetic/environmental disorder that makes her act like a 2 year old or a 12 yearold with hormonal issues, instead of an accomplished young person who attended one of the most rigorous and competitive colleges in the country.</p>

<p>I would not make it my problem- it is her problem - let her own it. She gets the mail, she pays the bills. If she doesn't pay the bills and I have to pay them because I am co-signer, then it goes through whatever process it has to, in order for me to be switched as main payer, even if that damages her credit.</p>

<p>Obviously, she has not learned previously that the choices we make, have consequences and affect subsequent choices.</p>

<p>It will be more difficult to learn it as an adult, rather than as a child, but better to learn it now, then to always be expecting someone to bail you out.</p>

<p>And- Motherwise- whether it is your son or daughter who is applying to MIT- for gawdsake, don't let your kids apply for private loans.</p>

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<p>so did I kill another thread?
I am dying to know who is applying to MIT :confused:</p>

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<p>My guess is that the OP is very nervous about someone in the real world discerning her identity, and so has changed a few relatively non-relevant facts. So, probably the D has a younger sibling, and that sibling is the one applying to MIT, but we cannot be sure (nor is it our business) which gender that sibling is.</p>

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<p>I guess I don't share the experience of being worried that someone I know IRL will identify my online posts- but then I don't post about things that I am trying to hide or ashamed of.</p>

<p>Which is probably a good thing- being that another thread points out that facebook and other websites can be hacked to access personal data.</p>

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<p>We anticipate to co-sign a few loans, apartment rentals for our kids when they are starting out. But I don't think I would co-sign anything that I am not capable of paying back, if need be. I think this is a big lesson for all of us to learn. We all want the best for our kids, but it can't be at the expense of us and other siblings.</p>

<p>We had a talk with our older D after reading this thread. We told her that she will probably need us to help to co-sign her first apartment rental or mortgage, but we wouldn't co-sign for anything that's unreasonable (beyond her means or our means). If we say no, it would be because she couldn't afford it, not because we are trying to be controlling.</p>

<p>Our D was offered a full ride to a good LAC, but she wanted a bigger school with more prestige. We didn't qualify for financial aide, so it would have been full payment for us. We were very reluctant because we thought we could use the money for her graduate school. We went through all the pros and cons. Our daughter offered to pay for $10,000/year - work and loan (she is tight, for her to offer to pay it showed us how much she wanted to go). She said by her paying $10,000, it would bring the cost down to her private HS tuition, which we have been used to paying. In some twisted way, it made some sense to us. We agreed to it, and told her we wouldn't be paying for her graduate school. We just co-signed for her first loan. If she does not make good on this loan upon graduation, we wouldn't have any problem turning her down in the future. If she makes attempt of paying for the loan, we would consider paying it off as her graduation present. We didn't offer to let her borrow from us because she may not think of paying us back.</p>

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<p>Off topic but important to know regarding co-signing-
If you co-sign an apartment lease for your son or daughter you need to realize that you are co-signing for the entire rent not just the portion of your child.</p>

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<p>I want to be clear in this scenario:</p>

<p>1) D does not pay</p>

<p>..........> parents are obligated to pay (then see case (2) below)</p>

<p>a) what happens to D's credit rating in this case?</p>

<p>b) can the loan in D's name (eventually) be forgiven through some sort of a bankruptcy proceeding?</p>

<p>2) Parents do not pay</p>

<p>a) what happens to parent's credit rating in this case?</p>

<p>b) can the loan in the parents' names (eventually) be forgiven through a bankruptcy proceeding?</p>

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<p>I don't know about question a) in either scenario, but I do know that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. If these were not specifically "student loans", but just a general loan, they may be dischargeable.</p>

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<p>If D does not pay, then D's credit rating is ruined. If D declares bankruptcy, then it is still parents' obligation to pay.</p>

<p>If parents do not pay, then parents credit rating is ruined. </p>

<p>I think the loan may be forgiven if both D and parents declare bankruptcy.</p>

<p>If parents are going to pay anyway, it's really up to parents to decide if they want to just start paying(D's credit rating would still be intact) or wait for the D to default (D's credit rating would be worthless).</p>

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<p>Wasn't it Senator Dick Durbin who suggested students to default unfair student loans in order to express a statement that our nation's educational system needs some correction? That is, as a nation we need to say - like some other countries do - that equitable access to good education is a priority for the US of A for the 21st century to be a century where the US of A continues to lead the world in both technologicial innovation as well as democracy. T J (Jefferson) knew that getting a relevant good education to as much as the elecotrate is essential for the sound working of a good democracy.</p>

<p>owing an inordinate amount of money after graduation is not good for the student, nor for the nation's economy, nor for our democracy. We want balance and a healthy middle class - that is the best antidote against the emergence of unstable forces that can lead to draconian measures and a resultant loss of individual freedoms.</p>

<p>If not Durbin, someone correct me.</p>

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<p>Wasn't it Senator Dick Durbin who suggested students to default unfair student loans in order to express a statement that our nation's educational system needs some correction? </p>

<p>I don't know whether the good senator actually came out with that suggestion, but certainly he says student loan interest rates are too high, and that if we as a nation are "serious about education," then education needs to be more affordable.</p>

<p>This thread makes me sad. It's a lose/lose scenario. I don't blame the 18-year-old, or her parents, for this muddle. It's not only a financial mess, it's a family relationship mess. There's just no easy solution.</p>

<p>That said, the idea of refusing to repay loans as a protest certainly comes to mind. These folks probably can't (comfortably) do that. But I recall my own loans came due while the U.S. was still in Vietnam, and many people who defaulted on government loans considered it an act of patiotism. (It's okay, flame away, I'm flameproof.)</p>

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<p>Celloguy notes,"This thread makes me sad. It's a lose/lose scenario. I don't blame the 18-year-old, or her parents, for this muddle. It's not only a financial mess, it's a family relationship mess."</p>

<p>Response: Frankly, I blame both the 18--year-old and especially the parents. If they are in a tight financial situation, taking out large loans was downright stupid. Yes, I am being a bit hard on them. However, it is the way I feel. They should have clamped down and calmly explained to their daughter the dire implications of taking out large loans and tried to get her to attend a state school. At the least, they shouldn't have agreed to co-sign on the loans.</p>

<p>As I see it, we have a set of parents giving in to a spoiled, somewhat financially ignorant 18-year-old.</p>