<p>City Year is an excellent program that helped inspire Americorps. I’ve visited the Boston City Year program.</p>
<p>One caveat and the excellent applicants now applying to such programs: Due to the economy, Americorps and City Year are increasingly difficult to gain acceptance to.</p>
<p>I did very poorly in college “the first time round” (currently working on Round 2), mostly because I stopped going to many of my classes. In my case, the reason wasn’t excessive partying (in fact, I never partied at all), but that I felt guilty and stressed out if I hadn’t completed an assignment or didn’t put as much effort into it as I thought I should have or had missed a previous class. It was “easier” to skip class again and not have to face the professor, who I was sure would be furious. Overtime this built up and I got hopelessly behind.</p>
<p>Obviously, the best way to do well in college is to do all the homework and go to all the classes. But I still miss the occasional class or have the occasional late assignment. However, now (Round 2) I go to class anyway and just pick up where I left off. If I get less points for not attending class or no points for a late assignment, I accept that . . . but I don’t beat myself up over it like I used to. I realize now that a) the professors have seen it ALL and b) self-improvement is more useful than self-recrimination.</p>
<p>I’m not saying this is the case with your daughter–different kids miss class for different reasons–but you might check.</p>
<p>Has she explained why she will go to 2 of the classes, but not the other 2?</p>
<p>Let the college thing go for now is key. Just to add to the story telling I have a girlfriend whose D went to college right out of HS and ending up flunking out. She worked in an office, got married, had a baby and decided to go back to college. Crap, talk about doing it the difficult way was what my girlfriend and I would say. But she did it with great grades. She took the “hard way” since her mom and dad would have paid the first time round and by the time she got her head wrapped around the idea it was on her dime and with a husband, a mortgage and child, but she did it. Smart kids flunk out every year at 18. Some smart kids never finish college and don’t need to. Some smart kids just need to do it in their own time. Help your D get pointed in a positive direction and wait and see what happens she may surprise you one day. Just like babies who decide for themselves when they will make an appearance in the world for the most part, young adults basically decide for themselves when they are going to do certain things.</p>
<p>Bluealien…she just told me something very similar to what Naturally wrote above. She skipped her math class, then got behind, and continued to skip. She felt she wasn’t doing well in Italian…not picking up the language as easily as others were, so she stopped going. She has occasionally skipped her art history and anthropology classes (she says), but she has B to B+ averages in them, and enjoys them very much.</p>
<p>It’s the unevenness that is baffling. But clearly, she has trouble climbing hills. When the going gets rough, she hides.</p>
<p>This is difficult, because her father thinks the punitive route is the way to go, and her therapist feels we should ground her, and not let her go out till the end of the semester (for lying to us about skipping the classes).</p>
<p>I’m probably too “soft”. I think she should definitely restrict her social life till the end of the semester, but I really want to help her find herself - and figure out why she keeps getting in her own way so much.</p>
<p>Thank you, Naturally - and everyone who has shared their stories. Your situation sounds very similar to what my D has finally told me. Do you mind sharing more about how you turned things around and got back on track? Did you have therapy? How did your parents react? What would you counsel parents to do?</p>
<p>Congratulations to you, and I wish you the best.</p>
<p>College is NOT for everyone. That she has no interest in college does not make her ‘troubled’ it makes you troubled. </p>
<p>Now, if she has no interests in any positive activity (e.g. work) then that’s another matter.</p>
<p>It’s a hard question to answer. I didn’t go to therapy at the time (though I probably should have and would recommend it.) My parents were disappointed, baffled, and of course angry–we aren’t rich so that was a real blow to our finances. Damningly, I went to community college for a quarter and did the exact same thing I’d done at the four-year school. Well, looking back, of course I did . . . the problem was still there, I was still handling challenges the same way. The way you describe your daughter, “running and hiding” when things got tough, would have described me exactly.</p>
<p>In my case, I eventually got a minimum wage job and worked there for several years. Working matured me because there, when I screwed up, I couldn’t just hide at home and not go back. If I wanted to keep earning money, I had to face up to things when I did something wrong or made an error and try to fix things. Basically, the job provided practice in facing problems and I gradually learned to deal with challenges in better, healthier ways. I stopped expecting myself to be perfect ALL THE TIME, I stopped regarding every error as the end of the world or expecting myself to be “smart enough” never to make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes!</p>
<p>So the job was useful, but at the same time I hated it because it was very repetitive and dull. The more bored I got there, the more I thought about returning to school. For a long time I put it off because “I’m too old” or “they wouldn’t want me because I flunked out” until one day I thought to myself, “So you will be XX years old when you finish . . . If you wait another year you’ll be XX+1. What are you WAITING for?” I quit my job and returned to school and am doing great (3.68 GPA despite the fact that the flunked quarter of CC is still on my transcript–I went back to the same CC) and will be transferring next fall. More important than my GPA, I’m happy with my life, happy to be learning, and excited about the future.</p>
<p>That was my journey. And it had to be my journey; no one could have taken it for me. But my parents did help by making it clear they still loved me. Therapy would probably have gotten me through it more quickly, but my parents were old school “therapy is for crazy people” sorts. I would say talk to your daughter, make it clear that you still love her, that lots of people flunk out, that there are always second chances. Tell her that when you run into a problem, it’s better to face it when it’s still small. If you hide from it, it will only grow. Don’t be surprised if she needs to discover that for herself, though.</p>
<p>Edit: I also moved out of my parents’ house and supported myself in an apartment for several years, and that matured me too–paying rent, utilities, etc. I was also paying off my student loans for the education at the college I never even graduated from, which both drove home how long debt can stretch and also the monetary value of an education. Luckily I hadn’t taken TOO much out and was able to pay it off early by upping the amount of my payments. (The minimum payment was $50, by the end I was paying $400 a month because I wanted that albatross around my neck to be gone.)</p>
<p>“In my case, I eventually got a minimum wage job and worked there for several years. Working matured me because there, when I screwed up, I couldn’t just hide at home and not go back. If I wanted to keep earning money, I had to face up to things when I did something wrong or made an error and try to fix things. Basically, the job provided practice in facing problems and I gradually learned to deal with challenges in better, healthier ways. I stopped expecting myself to be perfect ALL THE TIME, I stopped regarding every error as the end of the world or expecting myself to be “smart enough” never to make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes!”</p>
<p>This also is how doing a gap year with Americorps helped my son. He was both lazy in high school and a perfectionist, for instance, not handing in art projects because he couldn’t figure out what project to do. His teacher said he was one of the most talented students in her IB art class, and she hated having to flunk him.</p>
<p>At Americorps, however, he had to produce. It was very real world. He learned that he didn’t have to produce The Perfect Flyer for an event. He had to, though, produce something or no one would show up.</p>
<p>Now, he’s having a great time in his design and art classes (and in his other classes) and --based on his grades – he has learned how to make deadlines.</p>
<p>These also were lessons that I learned in the work world. I think it’s important to realize that loving parents, the right college, therapy can’t cure some behavior problems. Sometimes experience in the work world is the cure. It also may be that the student isn’t ready for college and never will be ready for college. There are alternative paths to successful careers including for very smart students. </p>
<p>I think it’s a mistake to take away privileges for a college student who’s getting bad grades. The student is too old for that kind of punishment.</p>
<p>I think it’s far better to hold the student accountable in a more natural way: stop paying for their college, and start expecting the student to support themselves. If they flunk courses, have the student pay for any replacement courses IF they decide to take more courses.</p>
<p>Alright, I’m going to try and make it clear and concise.</p>
<p>There are no schools that “specializes for students like her” because guess what? She’s an adult, no one will waste money trying to convince an adult to do something she doesn’t want to when it’s not illegal to do/not do, especially when it’s something like education. Asking if there are colleges who specialize in teaching students who aren’t motivated is just as silly as asking if there are job opportunities out there which are specialized for workers who aren’t motivated to work. If you don’t care why should anyone else?</p>
<p>One more note, not to be mean, but maybe she isn’t that “smart” as you say if she has yet to realize what to do with her life. And by this I don’t mean going to college. Lots of people don’t go to college, but most of them have plans, whether it’s to be an athlete, or be a musician(as you can see the fields of work you can expand in are slim without college, but that’s besides the point); if she is smart and is in a fortunate financial situation, she would know what she wants to do in her life by now. I bring this up because for those that weren’t in great financial situations as a child but who are smart (and yes I’ve met these people in my life), then sure it’s understandable why they might’ve skipped college and went out to work early. And I consider her in a comfortable situation considering you can afford to pay for her college tuition even after she’s been on probation and at a community college just to get back into college, your family is probably at least middle-class. What I’m trying to say is hop off the “she’s smart but she doesn’t like school” bandwagon. If this were to apply then she would’ve “like” or at least attempted to try in school at the beginning of college. I come from a school where I know the most intelligent person in his year was an underachiever, yet he got a 4.0 in his freshmen year of community college and transferred to Yale in his sophomore year. A smart person is efficient who tries to do the least work possible but still succeed at it. A lazy person is just someone who doesn’t do anything they don’t want to. </p>
<p>And being a soft father isn’t a problem. If you’re dealing with a child whose competitive and motivated easily then sure you can be as soft as you want and I bet the kid will do just fine, but if they’re not then you really need to be more strict. You can see this as an early age.</p>
<p>And honestly, I would stop looking for “stories” of how parents helped their kids changed and rather look for way to talk to your daughter and see what she wants. If she doesn’t want to talk about it well then I would give up after multiple attempts; she’s 20 years old.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if this sounded like a lecture but that’s kind of what I was going for lol.</p>
<p>Since I didn’t address this in my previous post, I’ll add that my parents didn’t really do anything punitive and I don’t think it would’ve helped if they had. Actually, I think it would’ve hurt. I felt horribly, nauseatingly guilty over flunking out (TWICE!) already. It was only after I was able to put the guilt behind me that I could move on. My parents did make me get a job, pay rent while I lived at home, and do some chores, all of which was reasonable (though I might not have agreed back then.)</p>
<p>A therapist suggested grounding a 20 year old? Despite her actions she is an adult. I could see refusing to let her have access to a car unless she owns it or not giving her money or a taking away any other types of support. It’s time she learns she is responsible for her decisions and choices in life. Grounding someone her age removes the responsibility that comes with combining a social life and a job or school.</p>
<p>Agree all around with Northstarmom. If the OP’s DD can’t get out of her own way as the OP suggests then leave it alone so that the natural consequences of her actions come to rest.<br>
This isn’t an easy fix of finding a college that specializes in 'troubled kids" and then sitting back while “fix her.” As a parent you can help by reminding her that you are proud of her regardless and that you have faith in her ability to go get a job or join Americorps or join the military or whatever SHE chooses to do with her life.</p>
<p>One of my brothers had trouble getting through college. He dropped out of two different state schools, moved home and paid rent, worked full time, went to community college part-time, went to a 3rd state u—messed around with friends who had a band, etc. Without discussing it with parents or anyone he enlisted in the army.
(No one else in the family had been in the military–we were shocked.)</p>
<p>The army did wonders for him. He developed self-discipline. Then, he found out that he could get out of the Army and finish his degree at state u. in ROTC. Finally got a degree after 8 years, 4 colleges and a stint in the army.</p>
<p>She should get a full time job, any job. Work for awhile. Maybe she’ll decide to go back to school later when she knows what she wants to do.</p>
<p>Naturally: I have seen your story repeated several times with children of friends. Your parents are probably so proud and clearly they loved you. I think your self analysis was a very great lesson that you fortunately figured out. Good friends went to a college graduation last year. Their incredibly bright and talented son had managed to flunk out of two highly selective college between age 17 and 20. They kept on loving him, but sent him out into the world and kept on “loving him”. It was his graduation. Age 26. Magna Cum Laude. He paid for every penny of that 3rd school. As a friend of the family, I could NOT have been prouder of him and told him so. He has since had several heart to heart conversations with my (college and about to be college) boys. I can only imagine what he said and how valuable what he said to them is.</p>
<p>I would like to echo what others here have said - I don’t think she belongs in college right now. Getting a job, finding out what it takes to earn a living, and maybe finding out what she really LIKES doing would help. </p>
<p>Having said that, I do know of a college that specializes in underachievers: Dean College in Massachusetts. It’s mostly a 2 year school, but it’s a residential campus. It’s private, and it’s not cheap. But their motto is “The Way There” and they have an extremely high placement rate with their students being accepted to 4 year colleges. They are really good at taking kids who, for whatever reason, have underachieved in h.s. and getting them on track. If you really feel that college is where she should be right now, you should look into it.</p>
<p>But… not everyone wants or needs to go to college, and not everyone who wants/needs to go is ready at 18-19-20 years old.</p>
<p>edit: just checked Dean’s website, <a href=“http://www.dean.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.dean.edu</a> . Apparently their new motto is “Prepare for What’s Next.” Their admissions stats are: 780-950 average SAT range (Critical Reading & Math), 1.8-2.7 average weighted GPA range, and they accept 70% of their applicants. And yet their graduates have a 98% acceptance rate at 4 year colleges. Their “Academic Support” page says, "Finding the pathway to success: At Dean, we work with students to help them find their skills, build their confidence, seek their passion. We offer a variety of academic advising and support services including the Center for Academic Support Services. We work closely with each student to promote a holistic educational experience by providing a spectrum of services that meet the specific academic support needs of out diverse student population. Our goal is to encourage scholastic persistence, instill a heightened sense of responsibility and academic confidence and develop life-long learning skills. "</p>
<p>My (elderly) mom and I were talking about my nephew today, and this thread is so appropriate. My nephew was much too social when he was in HS. Lots of friends, not good at doing his homework… I recall my sister yanking her hair out. She saw a therapist.</p>
<p>Then he went to college and all this turned around. I mean, 180 degrees. He graduated last June with Honors from his small LAC with a double major, Math and Chem, and is currently applying to med school and working as a researcher. How did he happen? He had a plan. Maybe that’s what a therapist would help with: coming up with a plan. In the meantime, you might want to see someone too.</p>
<p>I must say, I was wary of the “grounding” - though I think she should cut back on her socializing - maybe go out just one night on the weekends. I am asking her to exercise 4-5 times a week. I think that would lead to both emotional, mental, and physical outcomes more positive than making her stay in her bedroom watching tv and im’ing.</p>
<p>She is looking for a job, and insists she wants to stay in school. I really do thank everyone for sharing their experiences and ideas.</p>