My Diatribe on Financial Aid

Parents Forum
1

<p>I have read entirely too many threads about how horrible it is that you can't afford to pay for whatever dream school you or your kid got into. How, as a 'middle class' family with an income north of $100,000, we should all feel sorry for you. That puts you at 2.5x the average family. Will attending that dream school be very hard to afford? Yes. Would it require having planned since birth or significant sacrifice? I don't doubt it. Are there people that trick, abuse, or fool the system and get off better than you? I'm sure.</p>

<p>However, when I see a person taking out $70,000 in loans to go to a T3 university, because her two sisters are going to be entering college in the next 3 years, and the family has no idea how they are going to be able to make ends meet.......My pity has already stopped off well before your house. That's right, your house. We see commercials about how home ownership is the American dream. You have actual family equity that will last, and can be borrowed against. You have an asset that is expected to double in value over the next 10 years, even if it is tough as hell right now.</p>

<p>What about the family making $50,000 and living in an apartment, whose kid volunteered to go to a T3 and commute because she saw what the financial aid said from every 'cheap instate' that you look down your nose at. Or the people who choose community college and transfer to many fantastic schools. I know many many people who went to the University of Michigan after two years at a CC. And they were glad to put off the dream for two years. Why must you be too prideful to go to a state school or community college?</p>

<p>The people hurt by financial aid are not those who claim to be in the middle class, but are not. (and no I am not saying you are rich if you make over $100,000, but you are much better off than the vast majority, the middle) Those who are hurt are those who are not exceptional, but remain truly middle class, or worse. They don't get the fabulous financial aid of Harvard or Stanford, but the loan heavy burdens for Michigan State, Eastern Michigan, or Grand Valley. And yet these people do not complain to no end about how unfair it is. They see the rising costs of college, and shudder. They do not go to a private school, where college counselors can pass along expertise about the best financial aid or merit awards. They go to overburdened publics, where by virtue of not needing a social worker, they are considered to be fully self sufficient. A financial aid seminar is their best shot, and they are simply told to fill out the FAFSA and to try to find as many scholarships as they can.</p>

<p>If little Johnny is so exceptional, and has been admitted to this dream school - he will likely have the options of fabulous merit awards at schools across the country. Whether he is aware of them or not, I don't know. National Merit makes 15,000 finalists every year - and they are offered full rides to top 100 Universities and LACs. Full tuition to Fordham is among the offers, if this child needs a big city. Also Loyola Chicago if you would prefer the midwest. A sports scene - Alabama. Small discussion based classes? Denison. Religion - Baylor, Birmingham Southern, etc. The University of Texas offers in state tuition, which is a bargain to say the least. And I'm sure that even if this superstar didn't get NMF, his grades and test scores will open some very inexpensive doors somewhere if you need.</p>

<p>But if he is so distraught that he cannot function without getting his first choice, that likely rests on how he was raised. Now, that is not to say that he should be forced into that cheap option, as maybe those loans are something that your family can handle. But you will have to take out $50,000 in loans because of 'not enough' financial aid.....Once again - you have things to borrow against. You have luxury items, a '93 Escort will go 5 mph during rush hour just as well as your '07 3 Series. Cut back. Make sacrifices. You can make it work. What about the family whose 'luxury' is having 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom for a family of 5?</p>

<p>I understand why you are frustrated that a dream was only able to come have true. But if a college is so much superior that it deserves all this drama, make it work. If it is not - thank your lucky stars that college is even possible, as it is not for so many. Thank your lucky stars that your kid is so smart and hard working. Remember that millions cannot afford college. Remember that there are millions who think that the state school you look down on is the dream. Remember that you or your son or daughter are healthy and don't have a disability.</p>

<p>Yes this post was mean, harsh, rude, and probably not fair to many families. I just see too many families struggling to make any college work, rather than the right college. Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.</p>

2

<p>Wow. Chip on your shoulder. Mean and vitriolic. You must be popular with the parents of your kids' friends....OUCH! I would DIE if my parents ever wrote this. How embarrassing to your kids. What did they say when you showed them? Wow.</p>

3

<p>Unorganized. Didn't remember who you were admonishing and frankly I didn't care.</p>

<p>Yeah, CCers look down on middle of the line state schools; get over it.</p>

4

<p>I would also like to add that many students who go to or want to go to elite schools who don't qualify for financial aid are most likely getting some scholarship money from outside sources.</p>

5

<p>DocT:
Not sure which outside sources to which you refer.</p>

<p>NMF schools do not include HYP & peers. NMF schools do include NU and Chicago, however.</p>

<p>Other outside sources are private institutions. The amounts range from a laughable $100 to usually $1,000. (Perhaps now there are some for $2K.) Each of these efforts involves significant steps (essays and often more). To get significant aid for one year's COA for college, one would have to compete in & win 10-100 of these scholarships, which is nearly impossible without a full gap year in which to do so -- never mind the odds of being the winner for each category, all scholarship efforts.</p>

<p>Were there other sources you had in mind? Not being sarcastic. I'm sure others would appreciate knowing the other sources.</p>

6

<p>DSC, this is why cc is good, one can vent. FA as evolved over time in a chaotic fashion, which is why there is so much dissatisfaction with it. A lot of people are getting hurt while others are reaping what might be called ill gotten gains. Unfortunately, we all know stories of people who are scamming the system. Not reporting marriages, not reporting income because it can be hidden, etc..</p>

7

<p>I want to reiterate that I am much more sympathetic to families with really lousy public college choices. I maintain again that, in addition to better merit options for non-"needy" famlies (in the technical sense), lack of equal access to great publics is a big part of this picture. Wealthier ends of the spectrum can, if they meet entrance requirements, be admitted OOS because they're willing & able to pay full fare. An OOS-er will be paying in many cases the same or even more than for a private college (because there will usually be no merit $ for a public, and if so, likely not for an OOS'er), so for a middle-class family, other states' publics are not necessarily a solution.</p>

<p>Both public & private bargains are unevenly available to all economic classes, but are valued by all of them. For example, someone recently naively asked me why a particular wealthy student we know would want to accept a full scholarship to ___college rather than no scholarship to several more prestigious ones to which she was also accepted. (Why not?) It's a question of value, but naturally the more you do not fit into a category of either special need or maximum ability to pay, the fewer affordable options you may have, depending on your location and the major/program the student may need or seek.</p>

8

<p>I want to add to my post #6, that many of the outside scholarships to which I refer, which would include business groups, foundations, other private agencies (requiring special eligibility, such as a nationality or a legacy or declared major, or several refined eligibilities) -- these are often non-renewable after the first year. (Unlike most aid from educational institutions.)</p>

9

<p>DSC, I agree with most of what you say, even though I am one of the people you speak of. </p>

<p>I think we need to vent our frustrations and even grieve . . . and then I believe (hope) most of us "get over it", come back to reality, and once again recognize that, in this world called life, our children have won the luck of the draw.</p>

10

<p>I have a similar gripe, people I know in their 400-500k houses who take luxury vacations every chance (xmas, spring break, summer) making 6 figures, driving new cars, just remodeled kitchen and finished off media rooms in their basements, complaing about cost of college and no aid.</p>

<p>Get a reality check. Just like I have NO sympathy for the same people who are sitting on verge of foreclosure right now. </p>

<p>Overspending, catching up with them and putting college last priority. (Oh yeah, many have a second home either on the beach, on a lake or in the mts....) They still think they should get scholarships.</p>

<p>Parents stop feeling ENTITLED to secondary education. STOP expecting someone else to pay for something you should have been saving for and STOP whining about financial aid. If it is impt to you make choices during their young lives, live below your means and put that money away. Eat out one time a week, driving used cars. You can't have it all and then complain. Some have been biting the bullet for 20 years.</p>

11

<p>I noticed the OP lists Michigan as his Location. Michigan colleges are expensive comparatively. Tuition & Fees are much higher than many, many other states. State merit money is scant, funding for the university system is scant and I read an article last year that said the state was "slow" in sending measly sized merit checks to the colleges so some kids were "on the hook" for money they didn't have. Housing prices are depressed. Many middle class are caught in a blue collar auto industry economy that paid higher wages than it could sustain and has been broken for many, many years. Bumper stickers in the 70s when I lived there said "Last one out of the state turn off the lights" and it's 30 years later and the state is still trying to live on the remnants of a broken industry. Because of the auto industry there is little public transportation and young people can barely afford to gas their cars and drive to the nearest college or CC so I totally "forgive" the poster and can appreciate where he/she might be coming from. U of M is over $10,000 for instate tuition and fees (excluding room & board!) and State is over $8,000 excluding room & board. The most inexpensive "directionals" run over $6,000. There is alot broken about higher education and higher education funding. I'm kind of with the OP in that if you live in a state with a relatively healthy economy and state colleges with inexpensive tuition or large merit money I agree "quit 'yer whining." I'm one who thinks federal aid for students going to public colleges and universities should be adjusted for state to state public university cost differences. Colorado a state also having university funding issues has their flagship tuition at half of what U of M is. People whinning about private college costs I really have no symphathy for as that decision (to attend a private school) is a personal choice.</p>

12

<p>epiphany:</p>

<p>Those people I'm referring to who don't qualify for financial aid are wealthy people. My daughter got $12000 in local scholarship money plus another $8000 over 4 years. Perhaps in your case this is peanuts, but we found it quite useful. Some of it didn't require any essay or basically the same essay slightly modified for different scholarships. Scholarships are given either for academic excellence, community service or talent in some other area. This stuff isn't in any books, you need to look for local aid perhaps through your high school, town, newspapers. Yes it takes work - getting money usually does or should.</p>

13

<p>The vast majority of our local scholarships are for one year only. I can only think of two that are four-year scholarships. Your daughter has a pretty impressive total there, DocT. Your area must have a lot of local scholarships available. Congratulations to her on her success!</p>

14

<p>Yes the $8000 one was not a local scholarship.</p>

15

<p>Get your facts right. The average family does not earn $40,000. The per capita income in America is $40,000.</p>

16

<p>The median family income in the USA in 2006 was $48201 - this is the 50% point. This is interpreted by some as the average family income</p>

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<p>In 2006, 19% of families had an income above 100k - obviously not an "average" family.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]

The median family income in the USA in 2006 was $48201 - this is the 50% point. This is interpreted by some as the average family income

[/quote]
</p>

<p>im going to post this again:</p>

<p>the median family income in this country is approximately $60,000. 2006 cps data puts it at $58,500, though i have seen more recent numbers in the $61,000 range.</p>

<p>from the 2006 cps data, a few other percentiles (rounded):</p>

<p>05: $11,000
10: $17,000
20: $27,000
25: $32,000
40: $47,000
50: $59,000
60: $72,000
75: $98,000
80: $105,000
90: $150,000
95: $190,000</p>

<p>edit: also, median family income for parents with college-aged children (well, those who are between 45 and 54) is around $76,000.</p>

<p>FINC-02--Part</a> 1</p>

<p>(doct, you are reporting median household income figures, which make little sense in this context.)</p>

19

<p>Yeah, but a 25 year old guy living alone counts as a 'family,' so does a 75 year old retiree. </p>

<p>"also, median family income for parents with college-aged children (well, those who are between 45 and 54) is around $76,000."</p>

<p>Exactly. Saying what the average income of a family is is irrelevant. We're talking about families of college students.</p>

20

<p>Fair enough, but that gets in the way of all my vitrol ;)</p>

<p>My point still stands. The hurdle of attending any college is much more difficult to overcome for the majority. Deciding upon a 'dream' private or out of state school is a luxury, and should be treated as such. People have to make sacrifices in order to get luxury items. Private college is clearly a luxury item.</p>