My Hero!

<p>Bleh, the discussion should end here because it's personal opinion. And I have the luxury of defending affirmative action, because it has not put me at a disadvantage yet. As I am Asian myself, it obviously will not help me, but I haven't been "rejected" anywhere yet and felt the need to blame it on something. But, Once the system starts working against you, you'll start complaining. Perhaps I would have been that way as well if I had been rejected. "Oh it's because I'm Asian, I know it". Who knows. That's the way human nature works. I'm only trying to offer some insight from a possibly new perspective, since most of the kids who post on this board are college-obsessed children who do not benefit from AA and therefore nag about it all day, I, as one of them, figured I'd defend it for once. I personally don't care how many people agree with me; sometimes I'm not even sure I agree with me myself. I just wanted to make you think from the other side as well, and point out a few exaggerations that have been made. </p>

<p>I use SAT scores and grades a lot as an example because, admit it, it's what Asians excel in. And 90% of those indignant because of rejection is angry because someone with a lower SAT score and GPA got into XYZ but they did not, not because someone with a worse personality who was not as talented at art than they got in. </p>

<p>In the end, it doesn't matter. For as many people who would agree with you there is an equal number who will not. It's not morally wrong to try to help one group of downtrodden people, even if it means the BENEFITS do not extend to the other groups, so no, you cannot parallel it with the civil rights movement in which a group of people was legally and socially oppressed. Of course, from the poitn of equality for all, AA is not a "fair" or "equal" practice, since it only helps a certain group of people. If you happen not to be a part of that group of people, you will feel wronged. Those who feel wronged will always fight against it, and those who benefit from it, will always fight for it. </p>

<p>If you removed race and gender as a factor in all applications, yes, I do believe you will have a smaller number of URMs at the TOP colleges and a smaller number of women at the top engineering schools. I see your point, LauraN, that more males would want to go into engineering than females and therefore schools should represent that proportion. If college was purely a place for academics then sure. But ask any male who was accepted into the school early (not deferred) and they will speak against an 80/20 male/female ratio, because college really isn't all about academics, but about meeting different people also. Ask any white student who was admitted into their top choice college, and they will speak against a 98/2 white/black ratio (I know this is overly simplified to make my point), because no one wants to go to a school filled with people exactly like themselves. No, from the equality perspective of it is it's not fair use race/gender as a part of admission. But when you actually get in, you will appreciate the results, believe me.</p>

<p>Things get blown out of proportion on these boards because of the obsession of getting into the college of your dreams. But if you take a step back and think about it, it's just one school. Admission at the top, most sought-after schools in the country is shaky and random as it is. Much of it is based on luck, already. Try to remember that there are thousands of universities in this country. In fact, there are probably 50 out there that are as good a fit, if not better one, than the "college of your dreams". I'm not saying, don't reach for your goal, but I am saying that it may not be the worst thing in the world not to get into a dream college, in fact, I heard from many that it was the best thing that ever happened to them. People seek these schools for their name. I would have been just as willing to go to any single one of the colleges on my list, and that's the truth... (ok except UConn... but that's because my entire school goes there). Either way, there are plenty out there, and don't dwell on the fact that one did not want you right away. In fact, there are plenty out there that will allow you to play the "URM card" as an Asian.</p>

<p>This may come as a shock, but I really just argue for my own amusement most of the time, not because I'm very caught up in the issue. That's why I'll say a few things and then leave when I realize I don't really care and am only trying to practice my persuasive writing. Therefore, this is the last I will say on the issue. Ever. Because it has turned unpleasant and the amusement has passed. Not just on this thread, but on this issue altogether. If you have any questions about it that you would like me to respond to, feel free to PM me, but I will leave you to have the last word, theleet, as I always do. Fire away.</p>

<p>I wouldn't support AA even if I were a minority. In fact I was a minority in China. Most Chinese are Hans, and I'm a Manchu, which only makes up 5% of the population. On many big examinations, I would get extra points because I'm a minority. (I guess this is China's version of AA)Well I didn't like that beacuse it only made people look at me as if I didn't deserve it. Also, oftentimes I wanted to know how I stand if I competited directly against everyone else. But I never have that chance because I would always get something extra and I even felt guilty about it. I never thought I was more disadvantageous than my friends and that was very unfair to them.</p>

<p>Besides, what's the point of AA? To bring diversity right? Well that's the intention. But in reality, does it really work? Not as ideal as it's predicted. In many colleges, there are many minorities, but many racial groups form cliques and that defeats the whole purpose of AA. Also, a white and an Asian might be more a like than a white with another white. It depends on people's personalities and backgrounds, not just race. </p>

<p>I mean overall, I don't completely disagree with AA, but I don't support it either. There are pros and cons. I like to live around and get to know people who are very different but that doesn't mean it's all about race. And if I get rejected, it wouldn't be because I'm Asian. It probably would be other factors. No matter what the outcome is, I wouldn't blame on AA but still I don't support it. </p>

<p>Maybe MIT has other intentions with AA that I don't know about but this whole thing is based on my opinion from what I know.</p>

<p>People keep posting no matter what your opinion is. Let's not let this get offensive and make the mods close the thread though</p>

<p>Debates are fun =). I like to win but I also like to have to give in. In fact, some of your arguments did change my views a bit, which is a good thing. It made me realize other perspectives and pros/cons about AA that I didn't think of before.</p>

<p>So so true manchu_princess. I'm officially against Affirmative Action now. It has too many flaws that adcoms overlooked. I'm pretty sure it will be banned in the future like any other forms of discrimination. People should not be judged on race. Race alone tells nothing about a person.</p>

<p>lol I think you guys owned Pebbles and her Pro AAness. Good job.</p>

<p>Anti-AA all the way</p>

<p>Hot_Ice, that's inappropriate. Grow up.</p>

<p>wow, after reading all that, i think pebbles may be right in saying that some whites/asians automatically blame race-based AA if they don't get into a school, but i don't think that these opinions from a few people should discredit all the other people who are anti-AA and have seriously thought the issue out. i think this issue is a pretty big and important one, and maybe we could talk less about supposed/actual motives and more about the actual policy itself...? =)</p>

<p>i'm asian. my parents make six figures. i wouldn't benefit from either racially or economically based affirmative action, but i support the latter 100% and the former not at all. </p>

<p>i think it makes more sense to say that a child whose parents are illiterate or very poor have much lower chances of having academic privileges--SAT prep classes, private schools, more time for extracurriculars, etc. than a child who's parents are rich and college-educated, regardless of race. being a minority is not an automatic indication of poverty nor academic disadvantage, and i think it both puts down minorities and hurts non-minorities when race-based AA assumes as much.</p>

<p>if anyone can explain to me why colin powell's child is more downtrodden and less-privileged than the son of an illiterate appalachian coal miner, though, then i will definitely support racially-based affirmative action with all my heart!!</p>

<p>Affirmative action is probably used differently in every school. If it's ONLY about race then it would be considered discrimination. I trust that MIT will be fair since half of the admissions process is subjective (about personalities, passions, etc regardless of race). Afterall, MIT has more asians than any other top schools in US. So let's move this discussion to another thread someone started yesterday: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=25008%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=25008&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Good job everybody! This entire page is pretty much filled with thoughtful, wonderful people who aren't thinking about the personality behind the opinion, but the points themselves. People who are willing to change their own thoughts when something logical is presented to them. People who don't get obsesed with "yay I'm right I must be cool!" Yay! Thanks everybody.</p>

<p>yay... now just image four more years of thinking like this and talking to other people like this at MIT! =)</p>