my little brother...recruiting and LAC educational philosophy

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>My questions are with respect to my little brother, who will be applying this year to Swarthmore among other schools. My parents and my brother regularly ask my opinion about the schools in which he is interested, however, when it comes to the LACs, I don't know very much. That being said, I'm interested to hear what you all know/think about two major issues:</p>

<p>1) My brother is an athlete. He's been on the recruit circuit all summer, and is starting to get calls. He will be going to school for academics and knows he wouldn't play (or probably even make the team) at a D1 program. That being said, to what extent can a small program, and in particular Swarthmore's, aid in the admissions process, if at all? </p>

<p>2) I'm a junior at a top research university (some of you may already know which one). When I was applying to schools, I only looked at one LAC (I won't say which one, but its not Swarthmore and it is top 5) mostly because their faculty had told me that I would have all kinds of opportunity to use my technical skills to do whatever kind of work interested me in the lab. This, of course, is a big plus, especially for someone with a lot of prior experience, because it means freedom from "doing whatever the lab is doing or the PI tells you". However, when I toured their facilities, I was not overly impressed by their "state-of-the-art" laboratories and they certainly paled in comparison to the sort of technical capabilities that Harvard or MIT or Johns Hopkins have. What's more, the standard "you don't get as much attention from your faculty at a university" argument, has been anything but true in my experience. </p>

<p>Considering that my brother's intention is to do research, probably study biology, and go to medical school, what can Swarthmore offer to compete with the nation's top research universities? </p>

<p>Let me temper all this by saying that I in no way mean to be critical of the LAC education and certainly not of Swarthmore, which is undoubtedly among the very finest schools in the country. I'm trying, rather, to instigate the debate such that I have talking points to relay to my brother so that he can make the most educated decision.</p>

<p>Thank you in advance</p>

2

<p>What sport does your brother do? I think how much "pull" your brother would get in the application process depends alot on the sport and the coach of that sport.</p>

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<p>Lax...I get the impression its not a big sport there</p>

4

<p>It really depends on what is most important to your brother. You only have a chance to be a kid once, so my philosophy has always been that as many needs as possible should be met by a college/university. If that includes playing on a varsity team, he may have to compromise something. That being said, I don't know how much of a compromise it would actually be for your brother to attend Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Middlebury, etc. These kids do go on to fine medical schools. I know that Vassar also has an excellent record with medical school placement. And, of course, he can play his sport, if he is good enough to either become a recruit, or to walk on to a D-3 team. Some D-3 teams are highly competitive and have great records, depending on the sport.
Hopkins has some wonderful teams. My son was a walk-on, and has been playing a varsity sport for the past 2 years. It really is a passion for him. If your brother is similarly passionate, at any top LAC, he would have the opportunity to do research, perhaps not at the level of Hopkins, but these schools have their connections with hospitals, etc. But why not Hopkins? It should fill the bill on all the right levels.</p>

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<p>In my experience the ability to contribute to any intercollegiate team sport is a real plus to a Swarthmore application. There was a good series of articles about D3 admissions in the New York Times a couple of years ago where they followed the coaches, recruits and admissions officers at Haverford. My sense is that Swarthmore is similar in that if a coach thinks you will make an impact on his/her team their vote will have a real influence in the admission decision. Not that kids with absurdly low stats get in because they are athletes, but applicants at the 50% percentile who are impact athletes get in, while those at the 50% percentile who have no hooks rarely get admitted.</p>

<p>As to research opportunities, I'll admit I am biased toward LACs but my perception is that at a place like Swarthmore there are plenty of places for research for everyone who wants to do undergraduate research, while at most big research universities it is the exception rather than the rule, statistically speaking.</p>

<p>Swarthmore has exceptional results in pre-med students getting admitted to med school, so I wouldn't use the chances of going to med school influence your kid brother's decision whether or not to apply.</p>

<p>The bottom line, though, is whether or not he likes a school like Swarthmore. If he is excited about Swarthmore I see no reason not to apply and give it serious consideration should he be accepted.</p>

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<p>"Considering that my brother's intention is to do research, probably study biology, and go to medical school, what can Swarthmore offer to compete with the nation's top research universities?"</p>

<p>Also probably depends upon what area of research he is interested in?</p>

<p>Many of the "nation's top research universities" are overrated as to the research opportunities for Undergraduates, as they are full of grad students. Swarthmore only has undergraduates, which can give a real advantage for these opportunities. As stated above, Swarthmore has an exceptionally good rate of placement into medical school, and into graduate schools. I don't think the name of Hopkins vs Swarthmore is going to make one bit of difference in these cases. In fact, Hopkins grads are often competing for a lot of the same spots.</p>

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<p>On the why not Hopkins question: My brother and I are pretty different and I think through me, he's had the opportunity to get an in-depth sense of the school and its just not for him. </p>

<p>On being at Swarthmore: I've been telling him he has to spent an overnight there and determine whether he likes it, which seems to be a common sentiment. </p>

<p>On LACs and research vs. Univs.: Counter what people generally say, everyone I've known at elite private universities has had more than sufficient opportunities to do research (often with field-leading scholars), and this goes for Hopkins, Stanford (where I'm a visiting scholar right now), Cornell etc. That being said, I know a lot of people at top LACs finding it hard to have access to the right things. My comments about their research wasn't really on the "access to opportunities" which I'd imagine they have plenty of especially given the nurturing disposition of the elite LACs, its really more on the "access to technical capabilities" as well as famed scholars. Of course, I'm stuck in the grad admissions mentality at the moment so I'm thinking about things that probably don't matter too much, but I want my brother to have every opportunity he could.</p>

<p>I am very impressed by the top LACs admissions rates to medical school. I don't think that has too much to do with the name of the institution (i dont think Hopkins premeds get into medical school just because they go to Hopkins, insanely high MCATS and a 10-page CVs might have something to do with it) </p>

<p>On recruiting: My brother definitely does fall into the median number ranges for Swarthmore, but I have been warning them that it is extremely competitive and there's an equally good shot he wont get in. </p>

<p>I appreciate the information and all your insight greatly. If anyone has anything else, do share and I will forward it on to my brother. Thanks again!</p>

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<p>I wish your brother good luck. In fact, his situation may be very similar to that of my son's. If you would like further explanation, by all means, pm me.</p>

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<p>I am actually also looking at Swarthmore for lacrosse. Where else is your brother looking?</p>

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<p>My daughter is an entering freshman at Swarthmore this year, and an athlete. I assume that her sport helped her get in but I am not sure because she never asked the coach for a commitment. She did apply early to Swarthmore, which does increase an applicant's chances.</p>

<p>For med-school, I don't think there is any down-side to attending Swarthmore. In fact, because there is still a touch of the Quaker regard for service, medical schools might be attracted to Swat grads.</p>

<p>Although it is true that my son who attends a large university has more various opportunities for research, I think Swarthmore can provide plenty for a biology student. I think biology is one of the most popular majors.</p>

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<p>I attended a liberal arts college similar to Swarthmore, and majored in chemistry. I am a physician-scientist who mostly does research. I found my college science experience to be an extremely positive one. I believe this to be the case for both my research and classroom experiences. I can make a comparison as I took a chemistry course at MIT and was one of 200 students. The professor was an excellent lecturer; however, most of my questions were answered by a very capable T.A. In contrast, during my junior year at my college, I took a one-on-one tutorial with an excellent professor in my field who truly enjoyed teaching just one student (albeit someone very interested in his subject). I also have found that the writing and analytical skills that I acquired in my college have been invaluable in my professional life. Also it was enjoyable to have friends with a wide range of backgrounds and interests (certainly can be found at other top universities). </p>

<p>I agree the resources of a top LAC will not measure up to the resources at a top research university. Moreover, there also are excellent undergraduate mentors at top research universities despite the pressure placed upon them to publish and train grad students and fellows. However, I do believe one may have to look harder for them in the latter setting. I know that I put much more effort and time in training those who will defintely make a career in my field than for summer undergrad students working in my laboratory.</p>

<p>Taking into consideration their sizes, LACs produce higher per capita Ph.Ds than many top research institutions and this trend has been recognized by a previous NSF report that showed positive outcomes at the top 50 LACs. I believe Swarthmore also has produced 5 Nobel laureates, Amherst 4, and Haverford 3 so I do believe the top LACs compare favorably with top universities. Graduates of top LACs go onto top graduate programs so the quality of the education is duly recognized. My advice for your brother would be to find the best environment where he feels he can succeed and also enjoy himself. You obviously found a great fit at your university. Good luck.</p>