My parents practically said they wouldn't let me go to Bard...

College Search & Selection
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<p>I went college visiting over spring week a short time ago. Went to visit Brown, Colgate, Amherst, Hampshire, Hamilton, and Bard. For some reason, I really liked Bard and I've heard they have a great science program (is this true?).</p>

<p>When I told them my thoughts, my Dad practically said he wouldn't pay that much money for a college he has never heard of, and my Mom said she heard that it is way too liberal and doesn't have a good education.</p>

<p>So, what do you guys think? Why are they saying these things? Should I worry about it, or is Bard really not that good of a school?</p>

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<p>By the way, I'm just a junior. I didn't get accepted or anything yet.</p>

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<p>Don't really apply to the parents' thing....I was just asking, what do you guys think of Bard? I could come up with things I disliked too....</p>

<p>Also, I'm looking to major in Physics/Mathematics, but don't really want to go to a tech school (since the social lives are usually strained). Any ideas?</p>

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<p>I have no idea about this Bard, cause I never heard of it either. </p>

<p>But, what exactly is the estimated cost of attendance this year to Bard? Cause when you fill out your FAFSA next year, you will get an expected family contribution to college. </p>

<p>Let us know what the cost of the college is because maybe it is too much for your parents to pay. </p>

<p>At the same time, if they can pay enough for it, you have to be able to prove to them that Bard is your choice and that's the school you want to go to. You have to tell them that they can't make your decisions for you all your life. You have to take a stand. </p>

<p>But at the same time, if it costs way too much for them to handle, then maybe try a different school because it's tough to expect your parents to pay, say 40 grand a year for a college they never heard of.</p>

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<p>Bard has a strong science program?</p>

<p>I've always been told that while Bard is a great school for arts and humanities, it isn't for science. Also, there are very few people who major in the sciences.</p>

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<p>I haven't heard of Bard's being notable for strengths in physics/math (If it does have that, I hope someone here will correct me), so I think you'd probably be better off if you want a LAC looking for one with strengths in those areas. I've heard of Bard as being strong in the arts and humanities. My guess is that Bard would love to diversify by having a strong physics/ math major, but there probably are many other LACs who would provide better instruction in those fields and more like minded sci/math students for you to meet.</p>

<p>I also think that you should gently talk to your parents and make sure that before you look at colleges, you'll be seeing things that they'd approve of your attending. No reason wasting your time visiting and falling in love with a college that your parents won't let you attend.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, you're just beginning the search process. There are lots of colleges out there, including probably some that you'll like more than Bard. Keep an open mind.</p>

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<p>Yea, Bard wasn't my favorite by far.</p>

<p>I don't know how paying for college will be. It won't be a walk in the park, but it won't be extremely hard either. I know many relatives set up accounts for me years ago and have been contributing to it for my college education. And my parents make a good amount of money, we aren't poor in any sense.</p>

<p>They just don't want to pay all that money for a college they have never heard of and one that they don't think will get me somewhere that kind of money.</p>

<p>I feel like will pay whatever, if they definitely think its worth it. My father went to Brown, and that is like my #1 choice. He would love for me to go there (as would I) and wouldn't have any problem with the cost, because he knows it is worth it.</p>

<p>Anyway, do you guys know of some LACs that have good science/math programs?</p>

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<p>If your parents are willing to pay for Brown, then theyd probably be willing to pay for Bard too. Remind them that it's YOU who's going to college, not them. And as long as you don't mind oing to a left-wing school that is just on the rise and that not many people have heard of, I say go for it.</p>

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<p>Fand--
take a look at Reed and Harvey Mudd for sciences.</p>

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<p>Reed and Harvey Mudd look nice, but I live in New Jersey.</p>

<p>Not only do my parents not want me going all the way across the country, it would also bother me not being able to see family more than like 2 times a year.</p>

<p>But who knows. It would take a very, very strong argument for my parents to consider letting me go 3000 miles away.</p>

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<p>Well, the OP said "don't really want to go to a tech school (since the social lives are usually strained)." That pretty much rules out Harvey MUdd. Great tech school, but as intense as they come.</p>

<p>I agree that Bard so rarely attracts serious math/physics types that its ability to serve them may be limited. Hamilton is less extreme in this regard than Bard, but it also may tilt towards humanities and social sciences.</p>

<p>If you are looking at Colgate and Amherst, then by all means add in Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona (next door to Harvey Mudd, academically intense, but not a pure tech school) and Carleton. All do as good a job with hard science as you will find in the LAC world. You might also look at Wesleyan and Haverford. If you meet the gender requirements, Bryn Mawr and Wellesley have excellent records of turning out scientists.</p>

<p>Brown was the only university you visited. Are you committed to "Brown if accepted, otherwise an LAC?" Brown gets a lot of applicants like that. If you are willing to look at other universities, Dartmouth and Princeton seem to attract a lot of people who love Brown. Outside of the Ivies, Wash U in St. Louis, and Johns Hopkins have relatively small student bodies by university standards and very strong sciences. U of Chicago is similar in these regards, but its reputation for academic intensity may put you off. </p>

<p>Warning to parents: fame of the college is a very bad measure of whether it is appropriate for you.</p>

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<p>I have a friend who's going to Bard, and I've heard of it. But I always thought it was a LAC more than a science school. I haven't done any research into it, but from what I hear, the school has a very tight-knit atmosphere. You're only a junior--apply anyway. You have plenty of time to convince your parents to pay for it. If you keep begging, they'll eventually cave.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure that I would have been willing to pay for Bard had it come up.</p>

<p>It has been essentially a one-man band from a management sense for thirty years. Very much a reflection of its president. Leon Botstein. A symphony conductor, Botstein was hired in the late 1970s at age 27 when the college was nearing insolvency and he had 4 years experience as the 20-something year old president of bankrupt Franconia College.</p>

<p>He has a strong personality, has done an excellent job of attracting gifts for grandiose plans, especially from the NY community, and has taken many unusual, far-flung, and perhaps impuslive initiatives such as buying a high school in Massachusetts, starting a college in Russia, adding a conservatory, and so forth. However, I don't get the sense that his management style lends itself to paying much attention to the nuts and bolts of running a liberal arts college. </p>

<p>That's just me. I could be wrong. Read up on the history of the school for yourself. It's worth researching the finances and management of any college you consider.</p>

<p>I don't know where you got the idea Bard is strong in the sciences. I looked once and very few science professors on the staff. For example, just 2 Chemistry professors. They graduate very few science majors.</p>

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<p>I'd say Colgate's good for sciences in the list you mentioned, unless you get into amherst :-)</p>

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<p>Criticizing a school for being too liberal is ludicrous. Most of the top tier schools are relatively liberal...</p>

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<p>I would like to add Bowdoin, Oberlin, and Grinnell to the list of suggested schools. </p>

<p>I think Oberlin sounds like a good match for you, except that it's in the midwest and you wanted a college closer to home. Like Bard, Oberlin is a very liberal LAC, but has stronger science departments.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
For some reason, I really liked Bard and I've heard they have a great science program (is this true?).

[/quote]
No. In fact, Bard is probably one of the most artsy and least science-oriented of nationally-known LACs. A breakdown of the most popular Bard majors, from collegeboard.com, is as follows:</p>

<p>Visual and Performing Arts: 38%
English: 15%
Social Sciences: 15%
Psychology: 6%
Foreign Languages and Literature: 5%
History: 5% </p>

<p>Bard is widely regarded as less selective and prestigious than most of the other LACs that you mentioned. For example, you've probably noticed that schools like Amherst, Colgate, and Hamilton are included in the "Top Liberal Arts Colleges" category here at collegeconfidential.com, whereas Bard is not.</p>

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<p>Yes. Grinnell, Oberlin, and Carleton would be midwestern LACs that are very strong in the sciences. All three would be easy to recommend.</p>

<p>Since you've already done a college visit swing to New England, you and your family should plan a day or two to swing down to the Philadelphia area schools.</p>

<p>You could see Swarthmore, which is #3 in per capita production of future math, science, and engineering PhDs over the most recent 10 years, behind only tech schools CalTech and Harvey Mudd. Incredibly strong, rigorous academics including science and engineering.</p>

<p>Swing by Haverford, #16 in the country in per capita production of future science, math, and engineering PhDs.</p>

<p>And, if a womans college is something you could consider, Bryn Mawr (right next door to Haverford) is very strong, too.</p>

<p>You do not say what it is that you liked about Bard. But, all three of these Phila schools would give you some of the non-preppy vibe, but with much stronger academics, very strong sciences, and a much longer track record of fiscal stability and management dating back a century or more. Swarthmore, for example, has one of the largest per student endowments of any college or university in the United States.</p>

<p>Other more respected LACs that offer a bit of the Bard "vibe" would be Vassar (near Bard) and Wesleyan (Connecticut).</p>

<p>You also give no clue as to where you might be able to get accepted. So, if you are looking for some slightly less selective options, there are a number of solid LACs in Pennsylvania including Dickinson, Gettysburg, Lafayette, and Bucknell.</p>

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<p>By the way, I really did love Colgate, much more than Bard. Seemed like a great community and and campus is amazing. Plus they have a new like 65 million dollar science building being built.</p>

<p>But I'm also taking a look at the colleges you guys are mentioning. Thanks alot.</p>

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<p>Just to let you know, I was a science person looking into a couple of LACs as well. When I was searching for colleges last year, Bard (along with Sarah Lawrence) were one of the first to go off my list.</p>