I’m going to be a senior in New York state this fall. For the past several weeks, the biggest grievance in my life has been talking about college with my uncle and my aunt (who I live with and are basically my parents, so that’s what I’ll call them). You see, I want to apply to a lot of schools later this year, and many of them are well known, prestigious schools like Colgate, NYU and Harvard. Everyone else I’ve talked to about the subject matter (friends, teachers, several guidance counselors and even my school principal) thinks I should go for it and aim for those really great schools… except for my parents. Another thing I should mention is that they both come from strict Haitian/Caribbean families and when they went to college, their parents told them to go to a CUNY (City university of New York) school in NYC where they lived. They had no problem staying close to home during college, but I know I want to have the full college experience (living in dorms, doing extracurriculars, etc.). They also don’t want me to apply to those top schools because of their prices (which I admit is extremely high for all of my top tier schools). When I try to tell them that students that apply for financial aid almost always have 100% of their demonstrated need met, they shut me down and say that because we’re consider right in the middle class, I wouldn’t get NEARLY enough aid to cover the cost. They say I should stick to the local community college for a year or two then transfer to the nearby four-year SUNY school by us. I really don’t know what to do and I severely need advice. I want to go to a great school and have that picture-perfect college experience, but my parents, I feel at least, are holding me back. Sorry this was so long, but any advice is appreciated.Thanks!
Not true that students get 100% of demonstrated need met in most cases. There are a few but parent are right to be concerned. Start with a list of your favorites and some of their suggestions and do the net price calculator for each. That will give some idea of the range of costs. Then try to get them to give you a budget they feel comfortable with. This is important step before you develop a list.
- Your actual parents' finances are what matters for financial aid. Will they be cooperative with financial aid forms? Or did your uncle and aunt formally adopt you?
- If so, the colleges' net price calculators will be better at estimating financial aid than promises to meet need. Many colleges like NYU do not give good financial aid.
- Some colleges offer large merit scholarships. If you get a full ride, will they accept you going to that college?
Do some research on what top schools do actually meet demonstrated need. Start by selecting two or three of those as your reach schools. But know that what schools calculate as your need is often is much lower than what families can afford - or, in other words, they don’t give families as much financial aid as they really need. But as stated ^, schools calculate the financial need differently so you should input your family’s info into the calculator on each school’s website to get a general idea of what the cost would be for your family. You’ll need their tax returns to do that. Then talk to your family and try to get an idea of what they are willing to pay for your education/year. Compare the costs that are calculated by the schools’ NPC (net price calculator) to what your parents are willing to pay. That will give you your answer on whether you should apply.
If you are a very good student with excellent test scores there are some colleges that give automatic full ride or full tuition scholarships to ALL students who meet certain standards - no scholarship application is required (I think there is a thread with a list of these schools in the financial aid and scholarship forum). They may not be the most prestigious schools, but if you qualify, you might still be able to have the full college experience that you seem to desire.
Other schools give full ride or full tuition scholarships but only to a limited amount of students and are competitive.
Read the information and threads in the financial aid forum to get some ideas of your options.
You should also get some advice from your counselor or possibly here on CC also in the financial aid forum about your family situation. I’m not an expert on financial aid issues so I’m not exactly sure whose financial information you should submit to colleges - your aunt and uncle’s, or your biological parents. Are your aunt and uncle your legal guardians? If not, I would think that you might be required to use your biological parents information when applying for financial aid. That might or might not work in your favor.
I hope that helps.
There always is the option of taking on the burden of loans and playing things out that way. I honestly believe that should you get into Harvard, that would be a good idea, seeing that the median salary of harvard graduates after being out of school for ten years is roughly 120K. You would be able to pay back your loans with some easiness. I don’t think it would be worth is for a school that isn’t top twenty though…
@ConcernedRabbit, Students can only borrow ~$5500/year. If the biological parents aren’t in the picture and the aunt & uncle won’t cosign, then OP can’t borrow enough to pay for school.
Demonstrated financial need = cost of attendance (COA) minus expected family contribution (EFC).
If a university calculates that you have a high EFC then you will have a low “demonstrated financial need” and receive little aid.
Where are your biological parents? Are your aunt/uncle your legal guardians? This is going to have a huge impact on whether you are eligible for financial aid.
My uncle and aunt are my legal guardians, but my mom is still in the picture. The reason why I live with them is because my mother is not mentally stable enough to be my “parent” in the eyes of NY state court.
That means that your Aunt and Uncle are the ones that you should be consulting about college decisions. Very simply put, those are the people who you will put down in your common app, and I think that those are the people who will help support you through college.
Since your mother is not your legal guardian, she doesn’t have any control over where you apply and where you go, besides the control you give her.
Go for it. Apply to Harvard and NYU and Colgate. I think it would be worthwhile. (but ultimately this is your choice)
It’s not entirely OPs choice if he is asking his parents to pay for it. I would recommend sitting down with your parents like an adult and talking about their concerns. Is it a maturity issue? What is their budget? Maybe there is a compromise - a SUNY that is close enough for them to visit but far enough that you can live there. Stony Brook, Old Westbury,
Are you in a court ordered legal guardianship? If so, then you will be independent for financial aid purposes. You need to verify they type of guardianship you are in. If you find that you are independent, let your aunt and uncle know that their income won’t affect your aid. If you are dependent, their income still wouldn’t matter, just your mom’s and/or your dad’s.
@sybbie719 is one of our New York experts. Read everything you can find here that she has posted about scholarships in NY city ans NY state.
NYU does not meet 100% demonstrated need and Harvard has a 5% admit rate.
If student is in court ordered legal guardianship (by a U.S. Court), she will be in dependent for federal aid. Were your aunt and uncle given temporary legal guardianship or permanent legal guardianship?
Schools can ask for what ever they want when it comes to giving their own institutional aid. If the legal guardianship is temporary, they may ask for your mom’s income and assets (which may be a good thing is she has a limited income)
If Op’s is not in court ordered legal guardianship, then s/he must use mom’s income/asset information on the FAFSA.
Where is mom? Is mom here in NYS?
If mom is still the legal parent meaning student is not in court ordered guardianship and not physically present in NYS then OP is not eligible for NYS aid including Excelsior scholarships/EOP and HEOP.
I know it’s not Harvard, but have you looked at the Excelsior Scholarship offered in NY?
The short version is that SUNY/ CUNY tuition is free if your parent’s annual income is under $100,000. It sounds like your mom’s income might make you eligible.
It doesn’t cover room and board or books, but might enable you to be able go away to school.
For what it’s worth, the opinions of “friends, teachers, several guidance counselors and even my school principal”, while well meaning, simply don’t matter unless they’re willing to pay your way.
Huge generalization, but a lot of the Haitian kids I’ve taught have dealt with similar issues-- Haitian parents tend to wan their kids to stay fairly close to home. You may have better luck with a SUNY school that’s relatively close to NYC-- say Stony Brook or Binghamton-- than some of the others you mention.
If you earn a full ride merit scholarship, would they be willing to let you attend that school?
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2006094-2017-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html
I.e. is their objection solely based on (perceived) financial limitations, or are there are reasons that they do not want you to “go away” to college?
Legal guardianship is not the same as adoption.
From the FAFSA info page https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/fafsa/filling-out/parent-info#who-is-parent
For financial aid purposes, you need to understand your exact legal circumstances. Getting the questions exactly correct in section two will be important for financial aid
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/default/files/2017-18-fafsa-worksheet.pdf
As AroundHere said, you need to fully understand your legal postion re: your mom and your guardians, so you will know whose income you’ll need for FAFSA: your mom’s, your guardians, or just your own. It makes a huge difference. So read the link provided, so you better understand what’s up with all that.
What I often recommend to students in your circumstances is that they use the college net price calculators that are out there to better understand who might give them what aid, and consider that in their decision. At the same time, honor your parents’ wishes by applying to some schools that are strong, and yet which are close to home. Also apply to a couple of schools which are those you really really want*, and which will offer the level of aid you need. See where you get in, see what aid you get. Calculate what you’ll need in loans for each school. Then decide.
Tell your parents that you will apply to these four year schools to see what aid you’ll get, and that you’ll apply to the local community college once you see all that and discuss it with them. Then, when the time comes to discuss where you got in, try to involve an adult they respect who you’ve spoken to about all this, and who can plead your side of things with them. I’ve found this to be very helpful.
*It would be great if you could find some schools you really want which at least partially meet your parents’ wishes. For example, if you’re from NYC, and you want elite, you apply to Columbia, Yale and Princeton. Yale and Princeton are only 1.5 hours from NYC. In this way, you appear to be compromising, when you really aren’t, as even if you go to Columbia, you can still live on campus and get that full college experience, while being perhaps close enough to home for your parents. So an idea is to see which elite schools are near your home, and put them on your list.
Please note that NYU doesn’t tend to give good non-loan financial aid. And do apply to the good SUNYs that aren’t too far from home/that you like, as if you make under $100k/year, you get the Excelsior Scholarship and possibly also TAP, so your tuition is free.
Also be aware that each individual college’s definition of financial dependency or independence may differ from that of the FAFSA or each other. You may have to do a lot of reading of fine print and/or asking colleges’ financial aid offices directly about your situation.
Have your aunt and uncle legally adopted you? If not AND if the guardianship is court ordered, it is probable that their income will NOT count. You PROBABLY qualify as an independent student…
See
https://fafsa.ed.gov/fotw1718/help/guardianship.htm
https://www.edvisors.com/ask/ask-the-edvisor/guardian-income-fafsa-02-2014/
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/student-loans/fafsa-guide-legal-guardians-foster-parents/
Note that the first link is to the actual FAFSA question.
Talk to your school guidance counselor about this. Talk to the financial aid adviser at the colleges of interest.
It’s true that not all colleges rely on ONLY the FAFSA to determine aid, but many do. And, I doubt most of the others will expect your aunt and uncle to pay. Of course, you should check directly with them.
I am thinking @sybbie719 meant that if you ARE in a court ordered guardianship…you will be INDEPENDENT for federal financial aid purposes…not dependent.
But really federal aid is limited to the $5900 Pell Grant…$5500 Plus $4000 Direct Loan…and maybe SEOG if the school has it. At most of your colleges listed…that’s a drop in the bucket.
NYU does not guarantee to meet full need for all…and the schools doesn’t meet need for all. And it’s expensive…like $70,000 a year expensive.
Perhaps your aunt and uncle are gently trying to encourage you to also apply to some colleges where the costs are modest or where you would,get sufficient aid to cover the costs to attend. Really…there is nothing wrong with that.
As a low income, independent student…you have the potential to get significant aid from some colleges…but not all. Please consider the costs of applications, and the Profile (which those schools require) and sending the SAT…not free.
Be realistic…are your standardized test scores and GPA sufficiently high to get into some of those elite schools? Sure…apply…but as noted…90% or more of applicants don’t get accepted.
You need schools that are affordable, schools where you have a good probability of acceptance…and if financially possible…sure…apply to some reach schools…you never know.
But I think your guardians are giving you sage advice. In addition for reaching high (your list) you need to cast that wide net of affordability as well (their list).