My parents won't let me go to Penn

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
21

<p>To be perfectly blunt, your parents are being idiotic. It’s statistically impossible to think that Wharton, which comprises 19% of the entire school, could possibly raise the SAT averages from 1000 to 1440. Unless they were all scoring 3300’s (which is impossible…).</p>

<p>Seriously, have your parents seen ANY data? At all? Penn’s CAS is considered one of the BEST colleges in the world, especially by the ivy-crazed Asian parents of New Jersey.</p>

<p>I simply don’t understand the situation. Your 'rents must live under some type of rock.</p>

22

<p>ya ur parents r ridiculous</p>

23

<p>To the OP:</p>

<p>Your parents are doing you a favor. They’re obviously trying to save you from second-class citizenship at your own school.</p>

24

<p>This is ridiculous. Penn is a great school; your parents need to realize that it’s hard to do much better.</p>

25

<p>I can’t help but read “pretentious” when I see “prestigious.” Seriously. Nobody believes it when people tell them, but PRESTIGE DOES NOT MATTER FOR UNDERGRADUATES. Drive that point home NOW!</p>

<p>Case in point: People at Penn often make a big deal about how Penn is often confused with Penn State, and they are, for some reason, offended. Why? Because Penn is “more prestigious” than PSU. Then there’s my buddy who goes to PSU. This summer, as a rising junior, he will be working in California for an oil company; he was given a $6,500 signing bonus to complement a $20,000 summer stipend.</p>

<p>I know of NO rising juniors with that kind of internship. Even the Goldman or JPM internships are comparable to that, but they’re for rising SENIORS! </p>

<p>And he goes to the “lowly” Penn State.</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that it does not MATTER where you go for your undergraduate unless you take advantage of the opportunities you get at certain places. Sure, Wharton is well known and has a huge presence on campus, but it’s generally accepted that Wharton students are the least academically proficient on campus. A Wharton education focuses on practical business management and finance, which is usually saved for a graduate or professional degree.</p>

<p>If you are interested in getting a job, then it is more important that you attend a school which you ENJOY and study courses which INTEREST you. If you are interested in, say, English literature and a lot of personal attention from professors, but decide to attend Wharton, you’re an idiot. You would do better at a small liberal arts school; you would get better grades and have more job opportunities.</p>

<p>Remember, prestige is not everything. You miss out on a lot at an institution like Penn.</p>

<p>Professors, for the most part, care about their research FAR more than they care about teaching. You can go full semesters without having classes with fewer than a hundred students in each. You have to be much more aggressive about attaining your goals than the average person, and that’s not always a good thing.</p>

<p>I know three people at Penn who have transferred into Wharton or been accepted into a dual degree with Wharton and the College. I know FOURTEEN people who have transferred OUT of Wharton and INTO the College. That should pretty much say it.</p>

<p>Doing WELL in school outweighs the school’s name by more than you can EVER IMAGINE. And remember, it’s not like high school where you go for eight hours or so and then go home. If you don’t like it, you CANNOT escape it because you are there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.</p>

26

<p>Amen, chrisw…amen…viva la CAS!</p>

27

<p>Dude, take it from me. Wharton prestige isn’t worth it. Do what you love.</p>

<p>I would have had a lot more freedom and upward mobility in CAS than I currently do now in Wharton. I am a graduating Wharton senior, and I am basically trapped.</p>

28

<p>Thanks for all the responses. Operation “Convince Parents” will begin if I get in. </p>

<p>Ilovebagels: I didn’t realize CAS kids made more; that’ll prolly make my parents happy</p>

<p>legendofmax: trapped as in you would rather have a degree in something other than business?</p>

<p>Also, I’m Chinese. Thus so are my parents. They don’t know that much about universities other than harvard, pton, yale, columbia, northwestern, uchicago, berkeley, stanford, mit. They also know the name wharton. Their problem with penn CAS is that they think nobody in China knows what Penn is (can anyone disprove this?). And the thing with Chinese parents is that college is all about honor and how much bragging they can do about you. </p>

<p>My parents priorities in finding a college:

  1. how good it makes our family look that I went to (insert prestigious college)
  2. how much money i can make afterwards
  3. how much the college will cost
  4. how good THEY think the location is; for some reason they are really turned off by Philly even though I really like it (but I’m the one that has to live there…)

7…
…
…
.
1009999. how much i like the college.</p>

<p>that’s the problem with trying to convince them with anything other than prestige so i’m gonna have to prove that Penn (not wharton) is prestigious. i guess I’ll start with the employment statistics & go from there.</p>

29

<p>Short answer, yes</p>

30

<p>For the Philadelphia thing, show them this:
[Next</a> Great City: Philly, Really @ National Geographic Traveler](<a href=“http://www.nationalgeographic.com/traveler/features/philly0510/philly.html]Next”>Next Great City: Philly, Really @ National Geographic Traveler)
National Geographic ("so prestigious, even Chinese parents will listen to it!™) wrote a piece in late 2005 saying Philadelphia is “the next great American city”–moreover Philadelphia real estate has not been hurt nearly as badly as most other cities–ritzy condos are still going up.</p>

<p>As for earnings potential:
[Career</a> Services, University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/college/careersurveys.html]Career”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/college/careersurveys.html)
[Career</a> Services, University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys.html]Career”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys.html)</p>

<p>You can also show the handy pie chart indicating 40% of Wharton students traditionally do finance (a nonstarter at the moment) while the College is much more diverse with only 12% going into finance</p>

<p>Moreover you might want to point out that in terms of sheer earnings potential, the SEAS kids are the ones who graduate with the highest salary ( [Career</a> Services, University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/seas/surveys.html]Career”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/seas/surveys.html) )</p>

<p>Then there’s this bit for kicks [YouTube</a> - Interview with Dr. Amy Gutmann on China Business Network](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpbT2VGiKFw&feature=channel_page]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpbT2VGiKFw&feature=channel_page) A 10-minute special on Penn for China Business Network (must have been a slow news day…) Now my Mandarin is a bit rusty but I’m moderately sure they don’t spend the ENTIRE time just talking about how awesome Wharton is ;)</p>

31

<p>Your parents need a reality check. Penn is one of the best, period. But ultimately, college is what you make of it. I know plenty of people that wasted $100,000+ on an Ivy League degree because they weren’t a good fit or didn’t take advantage of the opportunities afforded to them. I’m one of them.</p>

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<p>Just tell them, after you spend 4 years at Penn, they will be able to author a bestseller on " How to get your son/daughter to Penn and the jackpot of millions of dollars in lifetime earnings". Other Chinese parents will buy it and you can pose for the cover photo.</p>

33

<p>Tell them that this is perfect because now you can do what you really want to do, which is to join the circus.</p>

34

<p>^hahahaha to curtain call’s post.</p>

35

<p>chrisw-I agree that no one should go to a school based on prestige, but it’s preposterous to make the generalization/blanket statement that “You miss out on a lot at an institution like Penn.” Especially since you go on to cite Penn’s large classes as some huge problem, but you earlier defended Penn State (one of the largest schools in the nation) against Penn. Don’t you like, go to Penn yourself? Maybe I misinterpreted your Penn-bashing?</p>

<p>…and lol, GabbaGabbaHey’s post.</p>

36

<p>If your parents are super gung-ho about prestige, I’d just mention that a ton of Penn CAS students go on to land prestigious jobs… many of which are the same jobs Whartonites go after. Penn CAS is by no means limiting. From what I’ve seen, it’s really just a function of fit. If you really love business, study business. If you want to study something in the college, do the college. Engineering? Do that instead. In the end, where you will perform best is what will give you the best chances of leaving college on a good foot. If someone had told me this a few years ago with the certainty that I have now telling this to you, I’d be in a much happier place, lol.</p>

37

<p>I am by no means a Wharton fan and I am a College student myself but I completely disagree with some points made by chrisw.</p>

<p>Regarding your Penn state friend example:
First, no, Goldman and JPMorgan internships are not only for rising seniors. They take rising juniors as well. Second, I know plenty of juniors with higher salaries than that. Perhaps you’ve heard of hedge funds. Third, great, you know a guy from Penn state who makes a decent salary. That in no way proves any point you try to make regarding Penn state not really being less prestigious than Penn, or prestige for undergraduate institutions not mattering at all. It is a fact that the prestige of your undergraduate institution matters a great deal in everything from going to grad school to the kinds of jobs you have access to. Sure, all of this may still be accessible from less prestigious institutions, but it is harder. Prestige matters for undergraduate, and it does because higher prestige usually implies higher quality of education.</p>

<p>“You miss out on a lot at an institution like Penn.”
You do not really miss out anything that you would be having at another institution. If what you like is English literature in small classes, like you mention, you can find that at Penn. Sure, if someone loves English literature and he goes to Wharton, he may not be making the right choice, but that’s not enough for you to say that “you miss out on a lot at an institution like Penn”.</p>

<p>“Professors, for the most part, care about their research FAR more than they care about teaching.”
Not like having professors that are not the top leaders in their fields and care A LOT about teaching is any better. I’d rather be taught from the best. It’s not like they don’t care about teaching either.</p>

<p>“I know three people at Penn who have transferred into Wharton or been accepted into a dual degree with Wharton and the College. I know FOURTEEN people who have transferred OUT of Wharton and INTO the College. That should pretty much say it”</p>

<p>Perhaps that’s because 1) it’s harder to transfer into Wharton than out of Wharton, or 2) people found the Wharton course load to be too much or not really their thing, so they took the logical step and switched to the College. I know plenty of people who want to transfer to Wharton but can’t. Your example doesn’t say anything at all.</p>

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<p>You have no idea how much fun you’ll have in SAS. Go to Penn if you’re in. Look at the rankings by U.S News as a final decider. Asian parents love that stuff.</p>

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<p>I find it very funny that people jump on me for saying that you miss out on a lot by going to Penn. You do! For that matter, you miss out on a lot by going to ANY school!</p>

<p>Lord, if you’re looking for a PERFECT school, you won’t find it. It’s just not there… there is no school which offers everything for everyone. Nobody can say that Penn is the best fit for every single person. If you abhor competition, you shouldn’t be at a school as pre-professional and competitive as Penn.</p>

<p>in_rainbows, I don’t cite large classes as a problem. Many people prefer large lectures to small classes since they can do the work for each class on their own schedule. If you get behind, you can take a week to catch up before the midterm and not worry about your grade. There’s a lot to be said about large classes. Heck, the class I’d say was second best out of my 20 so far was a class of 180. However, for some, large classes ARE a problem! And though upper level courses, especially in the social sciences and humanities, become much smaller, the fact is that you are, more likely than not, going to take at least a couple courses with over 100 students at some point. If you HATE that kind of environment and feel that you would be much better off in small classes with a lot of individual attention, your first year at Penn could prove to be rather difficult.</p>

<p>Now, to you, Rudess.</p>

<p>I don’t know of any rising juniors who have gotten internships at the major banks or hedge funds, but I’ll take your word that they can. And, I wasn’t trying to say that Penn State is as prestigious as Penn. It’s not. However, I WAS trying to say that prestige does not guarantee powerful internships, nor does the lack of prestige place powerful internships out of reach. </p>

<p>But seriously, don’t kid yourself by saying that the “prestige” of undergraduate institutions is that big a deal. Okay, granted, if there are two people applying for the same job; one graduated from Penn, the other from PSU; if they have the same major and GPA and the HR person didn’t go to either school, then the Penn grad would have the advantage. But prestige doesn’t matter in an undergraduate institution anywhere near as much as it matters for a graduate or professional institution. I mentioned this before, but for law students, prestige matters a LOT. When applying to a major Philly law firm (i.e. one with a $140k starting salary), if you want to be seriously considered, you need to be in the top 10% of graduates from Temple or Villanova, or you need to graduate from Penn. THAT is where prestige matters. However, if you take a kid who has a 3.8 as PSU and someone who has a 2.2 at Penn and hand their otherwise comparable resumes to a recruiter, you’d have to be dreaming to think that the 2.2 would trump the 3.8 simply because that degree is from Penn. You’d be dreaming!</p>

<p>As I said to the earlier poster, missing out on things is not equal to Penn not being a good fit for everyone. I have a few friends who go to Loyola College in Maryland. They can’t even conceive a class larger than 40 people, and they would honestly hate it any other way. I don’t think that sticking them in ECON002, MATH104 or PSYC001 would be a very good idea! It’s just not! Like I said, though, that’s not a problem Penn has; it is something that students either enjoy, adjust to, or avoid. It all goes to fit, and Penn isn’t the best fit for every student.</p>

<p>“Not like having professors that are not the top leaders in their fields and care A LOT about teaching is any better.”
I mean, honestly, I beg to differ. Having a professor who is a top leader in his field is great, but as a student I prefer professors who concentrate on teaching. It really depends on one’s view of the purpose of education. At Penn I believe the prevailing attitude is that education prepares one for a place in the working world. That is absolutely not without merit; I am more of the mind that university education teaches students a way of thinking and that a liberal arts education is at its best when students challenge themselves to learn for the sake of learning rather than to learn for the sake of gaining credentials to take to a recruiter. I see the latter as the job of graduate/professional school. So feel free to disagree, as I’m sure about 6,000 Penn students disagree with me, but I stand by all of my statements.</p>

<p>Alright I should’ve been more clear; I know three people who TRIED to transfer into Wharton and fourteen people who TRIED to transfer into the College. Yes, you need upwards of a 3.8 to transfer into Wharton, but I’ve found that overall more people are satisfied with the CAS than with Wharton. The thought of the Wharton curriculum being too difficult, however, makes me want to laugh. The MGMT and LGST courses are obscenely easy. MGMT100… come on now… I took LGST210 last semester, and that was wildly interesting but also rather easy; this semester I’m in LGST220 (crosslisted with LGST820) and that is, also, not exactly labor intensive. Granted, STAT and FNCE are tough subjects, and some of the upper level requirements are pretty tough, but of the people I know who are doing dual degrees, I don’t know a single one who would even try to say that Wharton is tougher than the College. </p>

<p>… seriously… this semester I’m in three political science courses, which give me a total of around 600 pages of reading a week on average; compare that to two legal studies courses which give a total of 75 a week; and the course I’m taking to fulfill my language requirement (GRMN104) has to be taken for a grade, not pass/fail.</p>

<p>Now, to be clear, I’m not “bashing” Wharton by any means. Wharton is professional. It is practical. It teaches students how to effectively work in the business world, and so people who are interested in this kind of thing and who want to take these kinds of courses which help to mold them into leaders in industry should absolutely want to be in Wharton. But that isn’t everybody! The freedom you get to pursue your interests is so vast in the college that some people spend three years looking and never actually finding anything they want to major in; but other people enjoy this freedom… you don’t have anywhere near as much freedom in Wharton. You just don’t.</p>

<p>But honestly, if someone tries to tell me that they will be more successful in life (in the long run) because they went to Penn, and they then show me a transcript full of Cs, they are in for a RUDE awakening. If you excel at Penn, you can use that to get your foot in the door, and if you take advantage of the top professors you see at Penn, you can use that experience and knowledge to excel in your field of choice. However, if you spend four years partying and sliding with mostly Bs and Cs, but more importantly if you go your four years without really learning how to think in a manner which will advance yourself, you will have just as much trouble as anyone else.</p>

<p>Penn’s great, I like it, I’m glad I go there. But don’t fool yourself by saying it’s perfect for everybody. It’s not! It shouldn’t be! It’s not perfect for me by any means, but it’s a tremendous FIT for me.</p>

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<p><em>Applause</em> Well said. Although I never got the whole apparent dichotomy between pre-professional Penn and liberal arts Penn. I don’t see why you just can’t take classes for both…I certainly did.</p>