My (personalized) plan for getting into a top MBA program! Input needed!

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>First of all, a little bit of background information - I am about to graduate from a small (but highly ranked) liberal arts school, I am majoring in History, and I should end up with about a 3.3 g.p.a. I chose to major in History because I loved the classes, and I thought that it would be cool to be a high school teacher/football coach. In the last couple of years, however, I have realized that: #1) I want to make more than a high school teacher; #2) I have no interest in being a historian; #3) I am not all that interested in sports; and #4) I have an 'executive' personality type, meaning that I am happiest when I am in charge, putting things in order, and putting theories to practice. Thus, I have decided that I want to go to business school. </p>

<p>The problem appears to be that I have little to no business or economics courses. Through a little bit of admissions research at the top business schools, I have learned that the best method of getting into a top notch business school is through consulting experience. It is the leading 'previous industry experience' of those accepted into Harvard, Northwestern, Wharton and M.I.T.'s business schools (and the third at Stanford's). Thus, the real problem appears to be, how do I get hired at a top consulting firm!? The answer - The Educational Practice of McKinsey and Company's Social Sector (link - Education</a> | Social Sector Office). </p>

<p>If I were to get a masters degree of some sort in Educational Policy at a leading institution (which I could), I could be hired as a business analyst at the world's top consulting firm! If I work hard enough, I could be accepted into a top business school after getting two to three years of work experience. From that point, I could then either return to McKinsey's Educational practice, or perhaps, pursue more lucrative opportunities...</p>

<p>So, I guess that's my plan! Please, let me know what you think!</p>

<p>Thank you in advance for any input!</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>Blue</p>

2

<p>You’ve obviously done a good amount of research and you’re definitely thinking logically about how to approach this.</p>

<p>But there are a couple of things I think you should understand before you go any further.</p>

<p>First, the reason why there are so many consultants (and bankers) in business school is because so many consultants WANT to go to business school in order to get promoted. Business schools aren’t simply hand-picking more consultants than any other field. In fact, there are so many consultants applying that top business schools are forced to reject scores of them just so they can leave room in their program for people with more unique backgrounds (which is honestly, where I think you will have the best shot).</p>

<p>To me, your plan seems very roundabout in order to get into business school and involves a LOT of “ifs” but I’m not going to get into that too much because it was a personalized plan.</p>

<p>Secondly, your history major is not a hindrance. Your lack of business/economics courses is not a hindrance. All business schools care about is your leadership potential. That is the criteria they seek above all else. You demonstrate your leadership potential by excelling in school, having outstanding work experiences (preferably international in some way) for 4-5 years, being a leader in extra-curricular activities both in school and after graduation, etc. Not to mention acing the GMAT with a score of 700+ (top 5-10% of test takers).</p>

<p>More importantly than ALL of that put together, however, is simply… what is your PURPOSE for going to business school?</p>

<p>You say you want to be in charge and put theories into practice. You can do that as a lawyer/politician/legislator/lobbyist. You can do that as CEO of a start-up that makes it big and never even graduate from college let alone business school. You can do that in an NGO. And you can make a lot more money than a high school teacher with those professions too.</p>

<p>What part of business fascinates you? Is it finance, strategy, entrepreneurship, management, marketing, accounting, or something else? What would you write as your reasons if you were answering this question on your application essay (which you will have to do)? What are your career goals? The people that get the most out of business school (and the $) are those that know all of these answers in specific detail.</p>

<p>It’s fine if you do not have the answers yet. This is the reason why bschools desire people that have taken 4-5 years in the real world to soul search and discover what they are looking for.</p>

<p>I apologize if I am being overly harsh and pessimistic but I’m trying to be as frank with you as I can possibly be.</p>

3

<p>Please, I appreciate your honesty - this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for! I also really appreciate you taking so much time out of your day to give me such a thorough response! There are no needs for apologies, its clear that you are a good guy! Hopefully you will believe that I am as well…and my response won’t seem standoff-ish. I am just very curious and appreciative of your help!</p>

<h1>1) I had not thought about ‘too many’ consultants applying to business school. But it still doesn’t quite make sense to me. Isn’t an MBA needed for advancement (or entrance into) in most popular industries…investment banking, private equity/venture capital, hedge funds, etc. So, wouldn’t there be ‘too many’ applicants from those fields as well.</h1>

<h1>2) You said that you think I would have a better shot with a more unique background…could you please elaborate on what that might be.</h1>

<h1>3) You said that my lack of business knowledge was not a hinderance…but I would disagree. It’s hard to get the kind of job that would lead to acceptance at a top business school without a business background. Isn’t it?</h1>

<h1>4) The reason I want to go to business school, as opposed to something like public policy, is that I want to make a lot of money. There, lol, I’m being honest. If I had a great business idea…and the skills to build a business…I would start up a company. But I don’t. I’m an executive/administrator. That’s what I think I would be happiest doing. That’s what I think my skills are best suited for. I would like to make a good amount of money doing it.</h1>

<h1>5) And again, you’re right, I guess I don’t really know what it is about the business world that fascinates me. I don’t really know enough about it yet at this point. I know that I like organizing things. I like building things up. I like planning. So maybe itll end up being management or strategy, who knows?</h1>

<h1>5)</h1>

4

<h1>1) Yes you are absolutely correct. Consultants and bankers should make up the majority of applicants to business schools. If consulting isn’t first, it most likely will be bankers (see NYU, Columbia, UChicago). Note that schools like Stanford, Berkeley, Yale, and others value diversity a ton and consultants and bankers are probably found in less proportion than other schools (and I think you mentioned you found that in your research).</h1>

<h1>2) See #3 for what I mean by a diverse background.</h1>

<h1>3) I don’t want to claim that you will have a “better” shot with a diverse background. There is no way I can say that for sure as I do not decide who gets into business school. But I can say that any job CAN get you into business school… so long as you show exceptional improvement in the form of promotions and leadership potential. A friend of mine was a tour guide (or something like that, I’m not exactly sure) at the Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C. for his first job out of college. In 6 years he rose up the ranks to be a director for an entire exhibit at the Smithsonian and managed several other people. He is currently attending Northwestern. I think he had a slightly higher GPA than you (~3.5) and he scored a 720 on the GMAT but those were largely irrelevant to his application because he was already a proven leader and had great, unique experiences.</h1>

<h1>4) I will not claim any moral superiority… more money is an excellent personal reason for heading to business school. But I doubt you’ll mention that in your application essay. Your goal over the next few years is to find a genuine reason other than money for attending business school that you will be able to share to adcoms.</h1>

<h1>5) As I said, it is perfectly fine that you don’t know what part of business you are interested in. You definitely seem to be leaning towards strategy/management but you have time to develop your interests.</h1>

5

<p>Prior knowledge: If you look at the entry distributions for top b-schools, you will see that they take in a lot of people with no business study at all. MBA programs do not generally assume any level of prior knowledge, and essentially teach from scratch. The advantage of prior knowledge is that it shows both you and them that you have interest and talent in the field. But something like 1/3 of accepted students come from science or engineering, with maybe a little business experience and no business coursework under their belt. Only ~40% of b-school students actually have undergrad business degrees.</p>

<p>Consulting into MBA - while this is the most common route, perhaps, that does not mean it is the best for you. Planning a route only makes sense if you consider both the end point and the starting point. Getting into an MBA-likely consulting job would probably be as hard or harder than getting into a decent MBA program in the first place. I would focus on finding a job with your current degree that would get you some business and leadership experience - do well and get some good recommendations and you should be fine.</p>

<p>Making money - you are potentially setting yourself up for a big fall. Business school is a ton of work. The kind of jobs that pay big $$ take a lot more work. VP’s at my company (Fortune 100) typically work 80+ hours a week for their fat paychecks - which means they have little time to enjoy that money. No one is going to pay you $150k to sit around and play golf just because you have a Harvard MBA, so you better enjoy what you are going to be doing.</p>

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<p>Of the Bain associate consultants that went to business school (40% of them after 2 or 3 years) 85% attend HBS or Stanford…</p>

<p>I would imagine the numbers are similar at the other top consulting firms. So, this is indeed an excellent way to get into a top b school. Of course they are very picky about who they hire.</p>

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<p>to be more precise re selectivity: Mckinsey hires <1% of applicants</p>

<p>H/S acceptance rates are about 10% and 8% respectively.</p>

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<p>I’ve been a business school professor for almost two decades. My PhD was at a tippy top school, I taught at an Ivy and a state and still have lots of interest and involvement in the industry of ‘business schools’. </p>

<p>So my thoughts are this: Don’t worry what you do next with so much planning. Not everything can or should be controlled to this degree. But do get WORK EXPERIENCE. Don’t worry about another degree. Get out there and start working. </p>

<p>“Consultant” is buzz word for a whole lot of stuff. There is no formula saying “oh but we need X consultants”, including self-employed. In fact, if anything, I concur with a prior poster who says be different. Our classes are filled with the same old-same old, which is a lot of engineers and undergrad bschool stduents (simply because those are the people applying) . But the reality we want diverse backgrounds, and history is a great one. </p>

<p>Absolutely no one expects you to have business or econ courses. Everything you need to know course wise comes from your 2 years in the MBA program. In fact it seems silly to do an undergrad in business then an MBA. Work experience however is critical, as it really makes a big difference to one’s ability to apply what they are learning to what is covered in class. It’s why we love teaching MBAs and why none of us would ever want our kids getting an undergrad degree in business. It WORKS at the graduate level after work experience best. </p>

<p>But that work experience can be non-profit, government, private, whatever. I’ve had former Olympians in my class. I’ve had famous children of famous fashion designers who worked in the family business. I’ve had people who ran and organized non-profits. I’ve had some artists. I’ve seen it all for backgrounds. And it makes for a great class. </p>

<p>Oh and study hard for your GMAT. Counts for a ton.</p>

9

<p>Thank you for all (very much) for the excellent responses! Here’s a more thorough post about my situation.</p>

<p>There are three main areas that I am interested in going into career-wise: International/Developmental Economics, Educational Policy, and Public Health. I would rank them, but the order seems to be somewhat interchangeable at this point. That is why McKinsey seems like such an attractive option to me, both pre and post-MBA, as their social sector has a practice in all three areas (and I have little to no interest in being a professor…too much research, I’m more practice oriented, and like I said, I want to make a little more money).</p>

<p>However, because I am graduating from a non-target school, I have a mediocre g.p.a., and a major that is not (directly) relevant to those fields, it seems as though I wouldn’t be able to get hired there without first getting a masters degree. Even post-MBA, I still might need a master’s degree in order to get hired (or advance in) the field I chose. So…knowing all of that…would you still suggest that I put off getting an alternate masters degree until I get into business school (a joint MBA program then maybe, I’m thinking). </p>

<p>If I do not pursue a master’s degree before going to business school, this is my best plan – serving in the Peace Corps for two years. I think that this would give me a little bit of experience in all three areas that I am interested in; a more unique background; and an excellent chance to establish myself as a leader! Do you think that this work experience would be enough (along with a high GMAT score, of course) to impress a top business school given my academic background?</p>

<p>Thank you very much in advance for any input!</p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>Blueadams</p>

<p>p.s. - In an attempt to explain my mediocre g.p.a. (about 3.3), college has been much more of a career-searching process for me than the resume builder it seems to be for many prospective business school students. I had little idea about what I wanted to do for a living when I got here, so I took courses in many, many areas (African Studies, American Studies, Anthropology/Sociology, Biology, Chemistry, Classics, Economics, Education, Human Development and Social Relations, History, Health Sciences, International and Area Studies, Mathematics, Physical Education, Philosophy, Political Science, Psychology, Religion, and Spanish!). Some of these courses I really loved and excelled in, and others I did not. Again, I still do not regret these decisions, as I learned so much by taking so many different courses!</p>

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<p>The big issue with this plan is getting into a McKinsey with a 3.3. T</p>

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<p>Have you taken a Gmat practice test? You have a 3.3 gpa, your gmat score is going to have to be near perfect for you to have any chance…If you find that your faculties don’t suit the Gmat (if you’re not good at math, etc.), then your 3-5 year plan may be in vain. How did you do in math/econ in college?</p>

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<p>My 3.3 undergrad gpa is why i was thinking about getting a masters degree…to strengthen my resume!</p>

<p>I haven’t really taken that many math/econ courses in college…intro stats and econ, both A’s. I did pretty well in math courses in high school though, and on the ACT.</p>

13

<p>The Peace Corps in a foreign country for 2-3 years and then working at a managerial level for another 1-2 years would definitely be a great, unique story when applying to business school.</p>

<p>For someone like you, acing the GMAT (750+) will likely address any concern regarding your GPA. People with <3.0 are typically the ones that definitely need to get a Masters/alternate transcript. You’re in that middle ground where GPA isn’t bad but it isn’t great. I think putting more effort into your GMAT and your career development will yield the biggest returns. Besides, 5 years out of business school, adcoms will put much less weight on your UGPA and more on your work experience anyway.</p>

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<p>here’s something that worries me about the gre…</p>

<p>i haven’t taken a serious math class since high school. i’ve taken intro to stats and economics at college (the two easiest a’s of my undergraduate career), but no calc.</p>

<p>in high school, i never took AP Calc, but I got all A’s in the normal math courses, and scored a 30 on the math section of the ACT.</p>

<p>How concerned should I be?</p>

15

<p>The gmat does not test for any calculus or any sort of advance level math. It’s basic algebra, geometry, statistics, probability, etc (like the SAT).</p>

<p>The real challenge comes in the format of the test (computer-adaptive not on paper) and format of some of the questions which people are not used to (data sufficiency).</p>

<p>It’s arguably meant to demonstrate your mathematical/quantitative reasoning rather than mathematical knowledge.</p>

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<p>interesting…i actually think that i am quite strong in those areas. it sounds like i should focus more on preparing for the test itself than taking mathematics courses at a local community college or something.</p>

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<p>A 30 isn’t a very high score on the ACT, you should definitely start reviewing basic math and practicing for the Gmat. After reviewing a bit, you should take a practice test to see how far off you are from your goal (at least thats what I would do).</p>

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<p>Ha! It’s not THAT bad! I got accepted into the University of Michigan out of high school with a 28 composite on the ACT. If I could get into Ross Business School in a few years, I’d be very, very happy!</p>

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<p>Relative to your goals its weak. If you wanted to go to Ross, you probably shouldve gone to michigan. Also getting into Ross is harder than getting into UMich Undergrad, not to mention the two admissions processes are completely different. But, it is significantly easier to get into one’s UG school’s B-school.</p>

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<p>“In fact it seems silly to do an undergrad in business then an MBA”</p>

<p>That’s not true. MBA can be leveraged into promotions, networking, increased knowledge (accounting to management), and getting one’s foot in the door.</p>