My son is better at physics...

Colleges and Universities A-Z California Institute of Technology
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<p>than the average applicant to Caltech. He just told me this. His two claims to fame are, "I'm better at physics than anyone else in my school, and I scored a '5' on the AP Physics C:Mechanics test without studying at all, even though I didn't know anything about rotational mechanics." Also an 800 on the SAT Physics subject test without studying.</p>

<p>I laughed so hard that lunch almost came out my nose. He doesn't do Web forums, so I promised that I would post his claim here and see what you all had to say.</p>

<p>Have at him!</p>

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<p>Hmm I think my son is better than physics than anyone at his school - 3000+ students too. He got a 5 on both parts of the Physics AP without studying, but he didn't claim to not know anything about rotational mechanics. I think he glanced at a physics SAT study book since his previous physics course had been as a freshman. </p>

<p>I make no claims that my son is better in physics than the average applicant. :)</p>

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<p>Having worked at a similarly selective E school, I can tell you most students in the freshman class at Caltech will are probably used to being the best and smartest in their school. It's a shock for some to realize that they might not be the top of their college class. Some will also have to deal with being in the bottom of the class for the first time in their lives.</p>

<p>Most kids seem to get over it quickly, but some are really rocked by the realization.</p>

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<p>mathmom and WashDad-</p>

<p>Your sons are likely better than the average applicant at physics. Probably even better than the average admit, for that matter.</p>

<p>That being said, it's not the most accurate metric to use. Some people here hate physics, or had very limited instruction in the subject in high school. Some of the latter became very good at physics after a few years, while the others simply major in an unrelated subject. </p>

<p>It would be better to compare them against either physics, or even Mech E/Applied Physics majors. </p>

<p>Personally, I got an 800 on the SAT2 subject test and a 5 on both parts of the AP exam in 10th grade, and even placed out of Ph1a here. I also dropped Ph12a this term. I wasn't anywhere close to failing, but I would have received a low grade. </p>

<p>I've met former physics majors who told me that Ph12a was a joke for them...but they had to switch majors after getting killed by Ph125. </p>

<p>Furthermore, the problems on the SAT2 and AP don't translate well to the types of problems found in most Caltech physics classes.</p>

<p>Which is all to say that high school accomplishments are nice, but in most cases, they're not a guarantee of success at the next level. Just like relatively few high school basketball stars become stars in college, the same is true here.</p>

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<p>I should explain my mirth. I assume that being one of the best science students in your high school makes you an average (or at least typical) Techer. I love and respect my son, but I strongly suspect that -- should he be admitted to a really challenging technical program at a school ending in "Technology" or "Institute" -- that he would find himself one of a pack of students pretty much just like him. He's got a pretty level head in most things and I suspect he'll adapt. I would just like to have the video of him figuring out that he isn't the smartest person in the room.</p>

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<p>WashDad, I don't think your son is particularly unique (I'm a high school senior). I got an 800 on the SAT physics test with little study even though my high school physics class had practically no coverage of rotational mechanics. I never took the AP exam, but my overall grade in the freshman mechanics course I'm taking at a community college is highest in the class right now, and I know that for at least one exam this semester the professor set the next-lower score after mine as 100% because my score wasn't representative of the class as a whole. Another exam was an "off-day" for me - I had studied little & hadn't slept enough - yet although I lost some points I still ended up highest in the class and was therefore above the 100% mark.</p>

<p>I'm not stupid and I can recognize that, by certain measures, I might be above-average in physics. Nevertheless I know I have a few weaknesses which could really get me in trouble later on; for example, I often take the "path of most resistence" in solving problems. I think in a complex manner so the simple solutions elude me every time. It's frustrating and it forces me to appreciate the fact that I am not the be-all-end-all of physics; I know I will run into problems, both in college and the real world, which I cannot figure out by myself. Every person has different qualities (innate or not) to bring to the table, and the problems which really matter can only be solved with the efforts of diverse groups of scientists.</p>

<p>You have a perfect right to laugh. It'll probably do him some good (I know having someone laugh at me would have done me good at various points in my life).</p>

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<p>He should take the USAPhO and see if he gets his butt kicked or not.</p>

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<p>


That's funny - I was just thinking that, after taking the 125a exam, phys 12a was significantly more difficult than 125a. The sets were (generally) longer, the midterms were both pretty easy, but the phys 12a final was a terrible mess for me, whereas the 125a final was a refreshing reprieve from the horrors of 106a. </p>

<p>In any case, WashDad I would guess that high-school physics preparedness doesn't correlate as strongly to success in Caltech physics as one would generally think. So don't stress about it too much just because your son hasn't taken several years of college physics before showing up!</p>

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<p>Well, it might be true. I pulled a 5 on AP Physics C mechanics, but that was with a considerable amount of studying...okay, I was lazy. But it was with a considerable amount of stressing out over it. So If I were in high school and heard about your son, I would probably be like, "Oh my gosh, this kid is insane. Uh-oh, <em>scared</em>!" But now, it doesn't really matter from my perspective. If he's better than the average applicant to Caltech, it shouldn't be too surprising, and good for him. </p>

<p>What Dean J says is really true. What you will get even from just browsing CC is the realization that, however amazing you might be, there are thousands out there who are equal to or vastly superior to you. And it's okay, because at this level, trying to be better than everyone else is kind of a frivolous endeavor, isn't it? </p>

<p>I don't think there's really any point to "have at him." Like...what does that accomplish? If he is really good at physics, then perhaps he should be less pretentious, but what he said did not seem so much pretentious as simply proud, and there is nothing wrong with that. Of course, I don't know better than you about what he said or anything, so I won't comment further on that. Don't try to actively seek out people to prove him wrong! If he really likes physics, he should be encouraged :D</p>

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<p>I find your son amusing. I am a high school student and I can say I am decend in physics. In fact, many students at my school are quite good a physics (800 SAT2..5s on AP...blahblah), but i think we put each other in check. Unless a student wins a place on the IPhO and the IMO at the same time and chooses to take IMO to win first place AND take a junior level physics course to have the highest grade in the class (This is actually a student from my grade at my school), I don't think he/she can tell from high school level physics his/her physics level. I think your son can learn a lot just from people around him locally.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
That's funny - I was just thinking that, after taking the 125a exam, phys 12a was significantly more difficult than 125a. The sets were (generally) longer, the midterms were both pretty easy, but the phys 12a final was a terrible mess for me

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>That definitely makes me feel better about my decision several weeks ago. I did mediocre on the midterm, and heard rumors that the final would make the former seem like a Sunday school picnic. The worst part is that I could tell that the midterm was indeed easy, especially compared to the sets... but couldn't take advantage of it anyways.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
What you will get even from just browsing CC is the realization that, however amazing you might be, there are thousands out there who are equal to or vastly superior to you. And it's okay, because at this level, trying to be better than everyone else is kind of a frivolous endeavor, isn't it?

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>I completely disagree with this view. </p>

<p>I have met people at Caltech who came here as relative nobodies from high school. Their accomplishments were mediocre, and they were simply average in their chosen major, not even close to the elite. Yet, they refused to accept this. They worked very, very hard.</p>

<p>After a year or two, they were among the top people in their major, and had surpassed many of their peers who were more "decorated" in high school. </p>

<p>I'll go one step further; the smartest kid I know, who's presently at Harvard, won multiple medals at the IPhO and IMO, qualified for the ICO and IBO, and finished in the top 20 for qualifying for Informatics. He has a slew of other amazing achievements in science and the humanities, like taking over 25 AP exams and getting 5s on all of them, most of which were self-studied. </p>

<p>Throughout all his accomplishments, he always sought to win, always sought to be the best. Second place was a failure for him. His goal was to win everything, and he tried his absolute hardest to make that a reality. </p>

<p>Obviously, he wasn't always successful. In fact, there was usually at least one person better than him in all his endeavors. However, it's incredible how far one can go with some hard work and the right resources...</p>

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<p>This thread is amusing in a good way :).</p>

<p>I was the best student in physics in high school that my physics teacher had seen in a while, and at Caltech I feel like a complete dilettante. Obviously, I'm not a physics major, so that's not unexpected. But I was somewhere in the "real world" recently and I realized that</p>

<p>(a) I know an order of magnitude more physics than the average well-educated person
(b) at Caltech, I know (relatively) no physics.</p>

<p>Both good things.</p>

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<p>Ben is way too modest...his physics skills are fearsome!</p>

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<p>Except Ben still doesn't know thermodynamics ... <em>cough</em></p>

<p>This thread actually reminds me of a conversation my best friend and I had today. (So I already have a rant prepared). Throughout high school, I met quite a few people who were proud of the fact that they could do well without trying. I don't quite understand why this is a source of pride. Sure, it means you're probably inherently very smart. But it also means you're not challenging yourself. And if you're * proud * of this, then either you're lazy or you have no passion for what you're doing. </p>

<p>I'm really into mathematics and I love facing a challenge - and some of the worst emotional torture of my life was being able to ace tests without trying. (I sometimes susupect that Hell is just eternal boredom). A much more satisfying feeling was when I aced a final at UChicago after studying for a total of 45 hours over the course of four days. </p>

<p>Getting back to the point: How many people got 5's on the Physics C E+M last year? Over 3600. How many people got 5's on the Physics C Mechanics? Almost 6000. How many people applied to Caltech last year? Here's a hint: it's lower than both those numbers. </p>

<p>Another point to consider: the "average" applicant to Caltech gets rejected.</p>

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<p>You don't even need a gyroscope or anything remotely fancy to be intrigued. I actually wrote one of my Caltech essays about the experience of calculating out something I saw in my kitchen sink. It wasn't the hardest problem I'd solved, but I figured it would be pointless to try to prove how much "better" I was at physics; I had been reading CC for a while and knew that the "better" approach probably wouldn't work. So instead I chose an experience which had been exhilerating to me, and tried to use the essay to say something about myself. I think that the adcom will either love it or hate it, but as far as I'm concerned, either way is better than a "ho-hum" response.</p>

<p>Edit: It seems neapol1s has removed the reference to the gyroscope.</p>

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<p>I agree... it's much better to write about something that genuinely excited/interested you than something you think will sound impressive.</p>

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<p>Indeed I did. It went something like this:</p>

<p>"I suspect your son doesn't have much passion for physics anyway. If he did, I don't understand how he could watch a gyroscope precess without getting a burning curiousity for how rotational mechanics works."</p>

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<p>As an aside, learning some basic rotational mech would really help for Ph1a, should WashDad's son get in. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
This thread actually reminds me of a conversation my best friend and I had today. (So I already have a rant prepared). Throughout high school, I met quite a few people who were proud of the fact that they could do well without trying. I don't quite understand why this is a source of pride. Sure, it means you're probably inherently very smart. But it also means you're not challenging yourself. And if you're proud of this, then either you're lazy or you have no passion for what you're doing.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Great post; my lack of study is what I regret most about high school.</p>

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<p>I wrote my essay about breaking a window when I was 8.</p>

<p>And I am also either the best or second best physics student in my grade, but I have the humility to realize that just the fact that I still occasionally come across problems that I get wrong means that I am nothing compared to a lot of people.</p>