<p>So i was looking at the 2007 report for the national merit/national achievement scholars and it lists the colleges that all the scholars attend.
Out of 826 individuals who were national achievement finalists a whooping 230 (or 27.84%) attended either: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, or MIT</p>
<p>The actual breakdown was:
Harvard-74
Yale-57
Princeton-32
MIT-33
Stanford-34</p>
<p>hey can you link to that report?</p>
<p>This is a fallacy. You're saying that because a lot of people who did well on the PSAT got into prestigious colleges, doing well on the PSAT really helps. Of course, colleges don't even look at your PSAT score; they care about the SAT score, and people who do well on the PSAT will probably do well on the SAT.</p>
<p>Um this is obviously not a fallacy. If you check the actually score cut off for national achievement is it about 190, which is not particularly compeitive for Ivy League schools. Moreover I compared the data to the National Merit results, and there is not nearly as much correlation. I realize that correlation does not equal causation (AP Stat ftw), but it is certainly an economic problem, namely of scarity.</p>
<p>I.e. there are a lot fewer National achievement scholars ergo it is more probably that it is an idiosyncratic award when the admission committes review applications. It is more probable that it is this scarity that leads to national achievement having more impact on college admissions. Couple this award as being demonstrative of the top 1% of all black PSAT test takers and cross apply it to SAT test takers (bc probably those who do well on the SAT are also likely to take the PSAT) then that means these individuals become even more scarce. And as we all know, whatever makes you stand out helps your admission chances. </p>
<p>Tyler09, this is the report: <a href="http://www.nationalmerit.org/07_annual_report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.nationalmerit.org/07_annual_report.pdf</a>
It is rather long but the relevant data is on page 36.</p>
<p>This probably has more to do with the fact that people who end up as national merit scholars are probably really smart and therefore likely to do well and go to a selective college.</p>
<p>Oic, I found something similar for 2004 The</a> Top Universities Recruiting National Merit Scholars</p>
<p>Out of 8200 National Merit Scholars</p>
<p>Harvard University-378 (4.6%)
Yale University-228 (2.8%)
Stanford University-217 (2.6%)
Princeton University-165 (2.0%)</p>
<p>Of the 800 National Achievement scholars </p>
<p>Harvard University-47 (5.9%)
Stanford University-46 (5.8%)
Princeton University-25 (3.1%)
Yale University-26 (3.3%)</p>
<p>In conclusion, National Achievement scholars are slightly more recruited than national merit scholars by HYPS. I would hardly call the correlation any less significant for national merit scholars. </p>
<p>Additionally, neither national merit scholars nor national achievement scholars are selected based on scores past the semifinalist round. Thus the only conclusion you can draw from this is that high scoring minorities are actively recruited by HYPS, something that many could have guessed.</p>
<p>No, this was not true for national merit scholars. For merit scholars there was as much representation at state schools (and in many cases more representation) than at Ivy League schools. In constrast national achievement finalists were not nearly as represented at state schools. Even big state schools like Berkeley had 3 national achievement scholars and my state school University of Texas had only 8. By comparision these schools had 60 and 283 respectively. This despite the fact that UT offered a scholarhip equal to 25,000 over four years to national achievement scholars and only 13,000 over four years to national merit scholars.</p>
<p>And for those who do not know 25,000 is about 1/4 of the total cost to attend UT for four years. For in state achievement scholars to turn that down they HAD to have better offers. I know personally that if I get into Yale (fingers crossed :)) I will turn down UT in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>Tyler it is more than slightly, I used my Stats skills to compare it (with small numbers you have to do comparative percentages as opposed to pure percent).</p>
<p>National achievement scholars had a <strong><em>% more chance of being admitted to</em></strong>___ over national merit scholars:
28.26% Harvard
17.86% Yale
123.08% Stanford
55% Princeton</p>
<p>Those statistics show that National achievement has alot more influence than national achievement. Particularly at Stanford and Princeton.</p>
<p>Moreover I believe the above data is for matriculants and therefore does not account for cross admits. In fact I would wager that there would have to be a high cross admit rate for schools like Princeton and Stanford to only recieve approximately 30 or so national achievement scholars, whereas Harvard recieved 74 matriculants, especially since the caliber of student is probably the same at each of the above schools. This is however speculative as I do not actually know the proportion of cross admits.
But for Yale approximately 120 black students were admitted and applying the yield of 70% it means that 150 were admitted. So 30 went elsewhere I wager that elsewhere is probably Harvard or some similar ilk.</p>
<p>For the 2007 data, 12% attended HYPSM for national merit scholars while 28% for National Achievement scholars.</p>
<p>While the year appears to be a statistical fluke, there is likely a large disparity. It is very true that the top scoring minorities are few and heavily fought over. It does not surprise me the HYPSM win out often.</p>
<p>I propose that the real winners are the minority students. If only HYPSM would fight over me.</p>
<p>It makes sense. National Achievement Scholars are going to include some of the top African-American applicants. I was accepted early to Wharton before I got the status, so I can't attest to whether HYPSM would fight over me =p</p>
<p>-double post-</p>
<p>You have to take into consideration that if these students received national achievement/ national merit, they've probably been successful in school, SAT/ACT, etc. Those high scores don't just pop out of the blue--they usually correlate with your grades and your competency.</p>
<p>It is so amazing that ppl on here really get into all these top schools. MAJOR congrats on Wharton!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bet is must be absolutely AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>I don't find out my decisions until March 31st, but hopefully you're talking to a Yalie.</p>
<p>^Good luck!</p>
<p>Does anyone know the exact date people are informed of whether or not they're finalists? I know its sometime this month. Do we find out if we're denied on the same day too?</p>
<p>On the website it said that the student's schools find out on Jan. 30, but that those who are not finalists find out later.</p>
<p>I got a letter from a local college congratulating me on being named a finalist, so the list is available for schools, but National Merit has not notified me personaly</p>
<p>Last year, the finalist notifications went out to the schools on the 23rd, and to students on the 25th. Here's my hysterical post from that time period . . . </p>
<p>I happen to think it's being in the top percentile that gets you in and not the award, that helps a lot. Of course I didn't look carefully at the numbers, and my D was just commended, and neither applied to, nor got accepted to HYPSM (or whatever it is). Can anyone think of a control group? Maybe AA students who took the SAT and not the PSAT? My D did quite a bit better on the SAT than the PSAT, and I can't help thinking that's more important in the long run. OTOH, the PSAT put D on the radar for schools she never would have considered, and to a certain extent, landed me at CC, and in that way, it DID help slot!</p>
<p>It is my understanding that information goes out to schools in either Jan 23rd or 25th,
and to the students on Jan 30th.</p>
<p>Good luck everyone who is a semi-finalist!!!</p>
<p>Also, it is so great to see how many national achievement scholars go onto top schools. I have my eyes set on Stanford or Brown, as well as making it to national achievement finalist!</p>