National Merit and Scholarship $

<p>It's not pro/con, it's just a fact. NMS doesn't offer awards to finalist. Some corporations do, mostly to their own employees children. Some schools do. Most people don't realize that it's really limited. NMS does offer a limited number of $2500 scholarships to students chosen from the finalist group.</p>

<p>From the NMS website:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Types of Merit Scholarship® Awards
Beginning in March and continuing to mid-June, NMSC notifies approximately 8,200 Finalists at their home addresses that they have been selected to receive a Merit Scholarship® award. Merit Scholarship awards are of three types:</p>

<p>National Merit® $2500 Scholarships
Every Finalist competes for these single payment scholarships, which are awarded on a state representational basis. Winners are selected without consideration of family financial circumstances, college choice, or major and career plans. </p>

<p>Corporate-sponsored Merit Scholarship awards
Corporate sponsors designate their awards for children of their employees or members, for residents of a community where a company has operations, or for Finalists with career plans the sponsor wishes to encourage. These scholarships may either be renewable for four years of undergraduate study or one-time awards. </p>

<p>College-sponsored Merit Scholarship awards
Officials of each sponsor college select winners of their awards from Finalists who have been accepted for admission and have informed NMSC by the published deadlines that the sponsor college or university is their first choice. These awards are renewable for up to four years of undergraduate study. The published deadlines for reporting a sponsor college as first choice can be viewed on page 3 of the leaflet

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Bandit I don't think your getting the point. What's valuable is the title of National Merit Finalist... not their award. </p>

<p>The "title" parlays into scholarship offers. </p>

<p>You may be failing to see the forest because of the trees here.</p>

<p>Would schools make those offers and other groups give those scholarships without the "NMF" tag? The tag is more valuable than the $2,500. Or as one school put it you can apply the one time$2,500 or take our $32,000 a year for four years instead.</p>

<p>At some schools that do offer small NM awards to finalists, the $2500 NM Scholar award actually disqualifies the student from the school's award...
By the way, someone mentioned UC Davis as offering $7,000 -- was that for a Regent's Scholarship? Those are not related to NM status. I don't think any UC gives national merit awards any more.</p>

<p>Opie-</p>

<p>So why would a school court an applicant with a NMSF 220 PSAT so much more than one with a 2300 SAT?</p>

<p>Opie, I think you are the one failing to see the forest through the trees. Plenty of top colleges couldn't care less about the NMF tag. Not only will it not get the student a dime, it will not even guarantee his admission. It means that a kid did well on a test on one particular day. And don't forget that there is a wide range of cutoff scores by state. </p>

<p>On the other hand, some schools bend over backwards to reel in as many NMFs as possible. So yes, it can be a wonderful honor. And yes, it can get you some $$$. Or not.</p>

<p>For most schools, it is the total package that gets a kid noticed.</p>

<p>Most schools keep track of NMF's that enroll. They must do that for some reason. SAT scores are also tests taken on one date although most schools superscore so that they can appear to have wildly great SAT scorers at their school. At least you can't take PSAT's 4 times so you get a really high composite score.</p>

<p>Sax, I really don't think you can compare PSAT & SATs. PSATs are given on one day of the year. Only the Junior score counts for the NM qualification. SATs can be taken several times, and superscored as you point out. </p>

<p>So a New Jersey of Maryland kid with a bad headache or a fever might miss the cutoff because his is the highest in the country and he was "off" his game on that day. He'd have another chance to retake his SAT & present a more accurate assessment of his ability.</p>

<p>Does the NMSF help with admissions at all? At this point, I'd settle for an admission with minimal or no money to a school that is a good fit for my son. Unfortunately, he got a couple of B's this year and has cemented his status as a B+ student who will be a NMSF (230 PSAT) and a 2220</p>

<p>Oops, posted early... a 2200 SAT. Rigorous schedule,but not IB, which is offered at his HS.</p>

<p>Bessie - I think so. It would be better if he had also been a stellar student, but at least he has shown he has great potential. It will probably be important to show growing maturity and specific areas of interest as he puts together his applications. For a lot of state universities the whole thing is an equation, and so being strong on standardized tests will balance less impressive grades. There is something on Penn State's website that shows likliehood of admission with SAT scores on on side and grades on the other. While their graph is pretty concrete, I am sure other large unversities have something similar. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.psu.edu/dept/admission/counselors/newsletter/fao5bubble_files%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.psu.edu/dept/admission/counselors/newsletter/fao5bubble_files&lt;/a>
(might be fa05) can't read my own handwriting</p>

<p>With the old score of 1500, a kid could dip down pretty far on their gpa.</p>

<p>"Opie, I think you are the one failing to see the forest through the trees. Plenty of top colleges couldn't care less about the NMF tag."</p>

<p>But plenty do... HEY absolutely if you want to spend your own money to get your undergrad you are certainly entitled to. We choose to spend somebody else's money when it was offerred. Having one just graduate undergrad and get into med school, it apparently didn't harm him to use someone else's money (because they offered) to get an education.</p>

<p>"Or not."</p>

<p>Again that is entirely your choice... do you want to be asked out on a date or do you want to do the asking? pretty basic concept. Which feels better? </p>

<p>I see just fine, what I don't buy is that the ones you pay for entirely yourself give you such a better education that it is worth forfieting thousands of dollars and replacing them with your own. But then again I would never consdier buying a louie vaton purse for a few thousand dollars either or drive a hummer... but I certainly wouldn't stop one from doing so..</p>

<p>It is funny, the folks putting that tag down, usually don't have kids who received it. So of course it's not that special.</p>

<p>"Does the NMSF help with admissions at all"</p>

<p>We found it did.</p>

<p>StickerShock...
So really I think we have bastardized the SAT by letting kids take it over and over, having classes for those with a lot of cash, and using the very best scores from each sitting. What are we really measuring now? Endurance?</p>

<p>It would be interesting to see how many times kids from the top 5, 10, 15 and 20 schools have taken the test. It would be interesting to see the scores from one sitting and see if this changes the colleges middle 50%. I know at least one school that does not superscore and that would be Penn State.</p>

<p>At least the PSAT is a one timer so you get a rawer view of a (healthy) kids talent.</p>

<p>"So why would a school court an applicant with a NMSF 220 PSAT so much more than one with a 2300 SAT:</p>

<p>The PSAT is the potential, a 220 isn't bad. The assumption colleges are making are they might improve. </p>

<p>A 2300 sat should be pretty good anywhere. That missing a few questions. Like a old 1500 on original SAT. </p>

<p>To all: </p>

<p>Where ever you go it still comes down to the student. When you look at schools the NMF tag is valuable to many ..if you choose not to use it, that's a choice. </p>

<p>My kids had offers of computers, spending money, maidservice, special housing, smaller class sizes, individual dinners with professors, calls and letters from professors, immediate help with any issue, jobs and so on on top of scholarship dollars and being asked out...</p>

<p>Or.... </p>

<p>they could become another student number at a place that doesn't consider the nmf important and carry a hell of alot of debt and yea, they'd let us know if they would be enrolled.... </p>

<p>I guess we were wrong from our choices.. can you really tell me with a straight face they screwed up? As I said the first one is on the doctor track, he did OK. The second's doing pretty well too... Her career choice really isn't an ivy or standford thing anyway... I could be wrong, but I don't know of alot of Ivy grads that are working on saving the American Wild Horse. </p>

<p>The other aspect is alot of kids have life goals that aren't "ivy-centered". Being a "giant of industry" is not everybody's goal. Some folks just want a good life and to end the slaugther of American Horses for French and Korean tables..... to each their own.</p>

<p>
[quote]
What are we really measuring now? Endurance?

[/quote]
LOL! Probably. I do think taking the SAT two times makes sense. Three, possibly, if there is some kind of merit $ or admissions benchmark a kid is shooting for.</p>

<p>But the one day of the year PSAT, with kids whose scores could be impacted by sports commitments, illness, family emergency....whatever....seems so random.</p>

<p>Opie, my kids aren't old enough to have been contenders. So that has nothing to do with my feelings about the program (or the feelings of most colleges that don't care much one way or the other.) I'm more impressesd with my kids' sustained achievements and their healthy, well-rounded development. No doubt you are, too. I know most colleges are.</p>

<p>I'm too lazy to look up the cut-offs, but just as an example with made-up numbers: Is a kid from Arizona with a 203 more impressive than a kid from NJ with a 223? It seems that way to the National Merit program administrators.</p>

<p>Opie. Thre are many brillant kids that have opted for a lower ranked school for more merit money like your son. I can feel your pride.:) It all depends on what is important to you.</p>

<p>My 17 yr. old son shook my H 's hand, looked him in the eye and said "that's alright dad. I got this" and accepted the full ride. That alone was worth the moon. 17 and totally independent due to his own hard work.</p>

<p>How much was due to NMF. We will never know. But it's pretty awesome!</p>

<p>NMF is just one measure. Some colleges give big bucks for that, while also giving big bucks for other measures...SAT/ACT cutoffs, or a one-day scholarship (writing) competition at the school. Whatever way they want to hand it out, we'll take it!</p>

<p>"NMF is just one measure"</p>

<p>absolutely, but usually it's a sign of the whole package. These kids aren't "rainman", they usually are involved in many other activities. </p>

<p>As sax, just stated we'll never know how much alone the nmf did on it's own. </p>

<p>It's like advertising, 5% works, but nobody knows which 5% it is...</p>

<p>"Whatever way they want to hand it out, we'll take it!"</p>

<p>ABSOFREAKING LOOTLY!!!!!</p>

<p>We found that older s's NMF status did cause the mailman to need a second mailbag and a back massage once a week. DS was accepted ED to a school that like to brag about the # of NMF's. He was also offered (but turned down) a free ride plus a $36k stipend from a big U that liked to brag about the number of NMFs. This is an entirely different story from the Ivys and LACs that offer no merit aid, and don't need to brag about the # of NMF's. that said, I am thrilled that s#2 will likely be a NMF because it will likely make a difference at several of the schools he is considering.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Is a kid from Arizona with a 203 more impressive than a kid from NJ with a 223? It seems that way to the National Merit program administrators

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Stickershock, that is a fair question, but there is a factor that is overlooked by many from the high-cutoff score states. I do not know one single kid who practiced, took the PSAT in 10th grade, enrolled in a prep class or even looked over an old test before taking the PSAT. (I live in Missouri.) My son's friends are the top students in the two high schools in this college town, and many of them were NMF. Of those scores that were mentioned here at my house, many of them scored high enough to be NMSF even in NJ or MA, but some were in the upper teens. I've spoken with parents in other midwest states, and smaller, less competitive school districts, and they report the same lack of prep. I think it is quite possible that the "kid from Arizona" is the equal of the kid from NJ, because reading CC makes me think most of the kids from NJ have done a lot of practice before the "one time only" test.</p>

<p>If we lived in a pressure cooker state, I would have given my son a test prep booklet and suggested he review it. Since he always scores high on standardized tests, it didn't occur to me to do so. And he wouldn't have used it anyway, I'm guessing, since he wouldn't prep for the SAT either.</p>

<p>I'm not predicting that setting a single uniform cutoff would send every midwesterner to prep class, resulting in the same score distribution in the sticks as in the suburbs and cities with high quality schools, but I think the differential would be lessened.</p>

<p>When I get bored with this pokey town, I remember how I could be living in a place where ambitious students devote half their lives to prepping for these tests, and then I'm happier. For now.</p>