I think the law school option at Alabama is very interesting. It’s harder to get a law degree than an MBA, so getting maybe 2 years of that done and just paying for the last year seems like a special opportunity. Plus, just getting a year of law school would give a young adult a good perspective on how the legal system that governs us actually works. I knew someone who suggested every kid should have one year of law school.
@hashtagwhynot - I am taking S19 in a little over a week to visit UF and UCF.
@mountainmomof3 You will love it. Tell us how it goes !
@Phlipper will do!
My daughter is in the midst of applying to 4 schools that offer significant benefit to NM Scholars. My wife and I were confused by the various school websites as well as 3rd party websites discussing NM scholarships. All of this information is directly from employees of the 4 schools. We are residents of Texas for purposes of in-state vs out-of-state tuition.
University of Houston (in-state)
-
National Merit deal is Tuition and Fees free for 4 years. $2000 for Study abroad. $1000 for Research. Parents pay Room & Board. Automatic deal. NM Finalist has to list UH as 1st choice.
-
Tier One scholarships are separate application. Same deal as NM but also includes 2 years Room & Board.
-
UH is what my wife and I call a 3 App school. Regular application. Honors College application. Tier One Scholarship application.
University of Arkansas (out-of-state)
-
NM semi-finalists are given Chancellor’s scholarship (semi-finalist guaranteed) – $8000. NM Finalists are given Chancellor’s Merit – $10,000. All of these scholarships are given out in addition to a 90% waiver for out-of-state tuition (i.e. out-of-state families only pay 10% more that in-state families in tuition).
-
UA Fellowship scholarship can be applied for as well. That requires Letters of Recommendation. 150 kids are selected for an interview with 90 awarded. Grant is $18,000/year.
-
Full price for Arkansas out-of-state costs are $36K/year – for room/board/tuition/fees. The 90% tuition waiver knocks the cost down to $22K for room/board/tuition/fees. If you get Chancellors only – cost is $14K. If you get Chancellor’s Merit – cost is $12K. If you gets the Fellowship – cost is $4K. These cost numbers are what Ark bills families. It’s not “cost-of-attendance” which includes travel etc.
-
Ark will give a NM scholarship of $750/year if your finalist does not get a NM scholarship or a NM corporate scholarship.
-
Another 3 App School. Regular application. Honors College application. Fellowship Scholarship application.
University of Mississippi
-
NM Finalists are given a full-ride. Tuition, room & board and fees. The admissions advisor I spoke to also mentioned travel & research $ but she had to double check. This is the best deal that we have found.
-
Its a 2 App process. Regular application plus secondary app for Honors College or other special program.
-
They by far were the most eager to recruit.
I’ll add my notes from my call with Auburn when I get home tonight. My recollection was that it was around $10,000 a year with no automatic break on out-of-state tuition.
I’m happy to answer any questions. Please email me at kensoh1212 AT yahoo. I don’t check this board that often.
Auburn University (out of state)
- Out-of-state tuition is approx $30K. The Auburn rep steered my daughter to apply for the Presidential Scholarship ($18k) which is not specifically tied to NM status. NM Finalists receive a $1-2K stipend. Parental cost for Auburn would be $10K tuition plus room and board. This was the worse deal we researched for NM scholars.
Correction to prior post about University of Mississippi. It is a 3 application school. Basic undergraduate applications. Honors/Specialty application. Scholarship application.
If people are looking for the “best deal” please take a look at Texas Tech for National Merit, they offer a true full ride full tuition and fees, books, room and board, stipend for personal expenses and travel.
Baylor’s is a lot harder now as well. Does anyone know anything about FAU?
Went to visit UF yesterday. S19 really likes campus and town. Admissions tour was quite good. Things to note - seems like their current acceptance rate is about 30% so I would definitely not consider UF an auto admission just based on NMSF status. A student needs to have the rest of their stats/ECs/essay fairly solid as well. Did not get any info on their NMF scholarship. S19 will need to get those details ironed out down the road.
S19 also met with engineering student for an engineering info session (we could not visit on the same day as any of the formal engineering presentations). This meeting was not terribly informative- the student really seemed unclear on what should have been basic info. We know enough from our research to realize that UF engineering is quite strong and that, although very nice, this student was just not a good representative for the department.
So despite the fact that UF seems to be quite vague in how they would handle a decrease in funding for OOS benaquistos, it will remain a strong contender if he is admitted and obtains NMF status.
Visiting UCF today.
@mountainmomof3 You will love it. Tell us how it goes !
@mountainmomof3 – Good luck today at UCF. I’m sure you’ll give us a full report when you can.
Also, I know this has kind of been beaten to death, but you should realize that UF does not have a NMF scholarship. The state of Florida does, and UF is one of the schools where it can be used. Its scholarship is exactly the same as the one at UCF, or at any of the other Florida schools that participate. Therefore, as has been said in other threads, the question really isn’t how UF would handle a decrease in funding, it’s how the state would handle it. Some schools (UCF, USF, etc.) that had big OOS NMF scholarships before Benacquisto was extended to OOS, have committed to reinstating their old NMF scholarships if anything bad happens to OOS Benacquisto. The other schools have not made such a commitment, and it’s a pretty safe bet that they will not, since it if not their scholarship to either provide or guarantee.
As I said before, UF is a great school, and I think the risk of funding being pulled is pretty low, but it’s not zero, and you are not going to get a guarantee, so you just have to factor that in.
On a more positive note, a 30% acceptance rate is not exactly like 9%, and all of the NMFs are pretty attractive candidates, so I really do not think admission is going to be an issue for NMFs who want to attend.
@NJDad00 - I completely understand it is not an institutional scholarship. That is why we didn’t bother to ask anyone at UF.
Although I will post later on UCF, one thing that stood out was a conversation with Luke (UCF National Merit Program contact) - he reported he was seeing/hearing a ton of misinformation about the Benacquisto scholarship and how it works at each school. After that conversation, we strongly feel that everyone considering a Benacquisto school should do their due diligence and ask each school. Yes, likely the answer at UF may be hands off but at least the information is coming directly from the school. Then, weigh your decision accordingly.
Had a wonderful visit at UCF. Met with Luke and then toured and lunched with 2 National Merit students. Met with the Honors College, engineering professor, engineering department, and back with Luke to review process and scholarship.
Overall impression of campus - it is a very beautiful, modern campus. Large but feels small based on design. Honors housing is extremely nice - 4 spacious singles (with a full bed) sharing a living room, kitchen and 2 bathrooms. Dining options seemed pretty good and S19 felt happy with the options.
Honors college perks are impressive. Being able to register more than one semester at a time is huge at a large university. Especially liked how many upper level engineering courses are available. I think S19 would be able to develop solid connections with his professors in that setting. Honors requirements seemed to easily fit in even with the demands of engineering.
College of Engineering- seems silly but I loved the Engineering Atrium space in between the two main engineering buildings. Large collaborative area of computers and white board desks filled with students studying and working in small groups.
We met with a mechanical engineering professor and he was perhaps the most enthusiastic engineer we have met. So excited by his work and his department.
Impressive opportunities for engineering students - campus is surrounded by tons of tech companies and relationships are in place to move students into internship opportunities.
Academic takeaway- I feel very confident that S19 would have his academic and employment needs met at UCF.
Concerns - as an OOS student, S19 has concerns that the campus might feel too much like a commuter school. (Would need to visit over a weekend to better assess.) They do try to place OOS NMF/Honors kids together but he is worried about the campus possibly emptying out on weekends. Something to consider and research further as we move along in the process.
So although UF and UCF are totally different schools/different settings, S19 really liked both enough to keep both on his list. I am thinking this will be a looong decision process!
@mountainmomof3 – Congratulations on making it through the visits! 
It sounds like you are validating my prediction of how you would perceive both schools. I’m sorry there was not a clear winner, thereby making decisions easier and reducing anxiety, but it’s really a great problem to have. I guarantee you your S19 will not make a mistake given his choices.
Luke’s comment to you surprises me a little, since Benacquisto works exactly the same at all participating schools (full COA - [Bright Futures (FL only!) + National Merit Award - this is $2,500 directly from NM or the small award made by the school]), and that fact couldn’t be more clear, so I wonder where the misinformation and confusion comes from???
In fact, it was UCF and USF making guarantees last year that planted seeds of doubt that made their way to CC regarding future funding at schools like UF. The legislation clearly provides funding for up to 10 semesters as long as certain conditions are met. No school has actually come out and said it will not fund the scholarships if the state balks. That is mere speculation on our part. The doubt only comes from the fact that politics are fickle and priorities change, and some schools guarantee the scholarship and others don’t.
Did Luke happen to elaborate on what misinformation he was referring to?
I’m also curious on what Luke said…
There is no difference between schools on how the Benacquisto scholarship is administered. That’s dictated by the state. The same applies to the in-state Bright Future scholarships. The only difference between schools would be how effective the student financial affairs department are at processing the scholarships. Even the amount awarded is the same across all schools.
The only difference would be the actual cost(tuition/fees, room and board) between the schools, and that difference is minor.
I’m surprise UCF offers honor versions of these (upper level) classes. The major difference between UF and UCF is resources, UCF’s resources are limited compared to (the much better funded) UF. But all upper level engineering classes are fairly rigorous and often smaller (based on your major), which is why I’m surprise they offer honor versions of these classes.
I did find the list of classes offered (I’m assuming they are not all offered every semester).
https://honors.ucf.edu/advising/requirements/
This list makes sense, as these are all very large classes (almost all engineering students take Statics, for example, and many take Dynamics). However, these are mostly classes taken in the sophomore or early junior year and are still “foundation” classes (with a few exceptions).
Most upper division classes in engineering will not be honors classes. Based on the above list, they may take one or two a semester, but likely none in the last 2 or 3 semesters.
Still having an honor’s option is nice. I wonder how many “honor” engineering majors avoid taking more than the required 2 classes, due to the “perceived” extra work load. Engineering is all about managing your workload…
Back to the question of resources between the two schools.
You can find more detailed info on college engineering departments on ASEE’s website.
http://profiles.asee.org/
Number of full time engineering undergraduate students:
UF: 6,324
UCF: 6,831
Number of Teaching, Tenure-Track Faculty:
UF: 281
Full Professors: 143 (51%)
Associate Professors: 93
Assistant Professors: 45
UCF:159
Full Professors: 60 (38%)
Associate Professors: 49
Assistant Professors: 50
UF has a far larger (and much more senior) engineering department, with fewer undergraduate students. It also has many more engineering facilities/buildings. It can offer more and better funded design teams…
On top of all of this, UF is hiring 500 additional faculty, many of which will end up in the engineering college. UF’s goal is to get the Student to Faculty ratio down to 16 to 1.
Note that UF also has more graduate students and does far more engineering research, which is also supported by the faculty and facilities.
UCF (engineering) was the 2nd or 3rd choice for both of my kids (behind UF), and we would have been very happy if they ended up going to UCF. The large merit scholarships and the honor college (which we hoped would help counter the resource issue) made UCF a solid choice for our family.
I loved how UCF’s campus layout follows a wheel and spoke model. The school is not nearly as much as a commuter school, as in the past. It’s drawing students from all over the state. However, the campus is competing against the city of Orlando, so if it empties out on weekends, it’s because the kids are running around town. Most of the students (enrollment over 66K) also live off campus:
At UF, many students also live off campus, but the off campus apartments are filled with students, and most students hang out at the same locations in the much smaller town of Gainesville. It’s the difference between an urban campus and a college town. Most of my kids friends that attend UCF, like it (as well as their friends that attend FSU).
By the way, if anyone has any questions about UF engineering, feel free to message me. I’ll share the good and the BAD. 
@mountainmomof3 Glad the visit went well to UCF. My daughter hasn’t had any issues with finding friends on the weekend. Of course she is in the band so that helps but I think a number of students stay the weekends because there is so much to do. Luke was a big selling point for us, very informative and very helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Glued to this thread. Thank you all @mountainmomof3, can’t wait to see what your DS picks. I hope @Phlipper’s D is loving UCF. Also @Phlipper Wreck"EM
@Gator88NE @NJDad00 - misinformation appears to be NMSF families he has contact with and/or advice/statements he has read online. Not saying your information is incorrect but obviously enough people currently in the process seem to be confused as to how it works and, in UCF’s case, how they will handle any changes. He spends a lot of time explaining how the state program works in detail and people seem to have confusion over some of the state wording. All schools obviously will implement the state program in an identical manner but, at least at UCF, different choices impact how the scholarship money plays out. And all schools will have different approaches to contingency plans in case of reduced funding - probably ranging from “too bad, too sad” to “this is our specific scholarship program we will use to handle any changes.” While we are not confused after Luke’s thorough talk, I can see points where people coming in might not “get it.”
As I mentioned earlier, I wasn’t worried by the poor Engineering information session at UF because I was already well aware of the merits of UF engineering. I already had zero concerns regarding internship and eventual employment opportunities there. I realized the student was just not well-versed in the information we were seeking. We wished we could have attended one of the formal engineering sessions but our schedule didn’t work out that way. Come spring time, if there are specific details we want to make a proper comparison, we would probably set up an appointment with engineering to review S19’s specific questions.
Since UCF is not as widely known OOS, we definitely wanted to make sure that internship opportunities and recruiting were solid. So for us, it was quite reassuring to hear about the opportunities there.
Most of the honors colleges we have studied in depth do not have nearly as many engineering offerings, so to find it at UCF was surprising. So while I guess you would not consider these true upper level offerings, in comparison to the others honors colleges on the list, they were a pleasant surprise.
In terms of resources, I cannot speak to UF’s honors college/program because that is not something S19 decided to pursue. However, UCF honors discussed their funding with us and the program is quite well funded. Also, while UCF has grown by leaps and bounds, the honors college has not. I believe we were told around 2000 students in total. Smaller schools (but still plenty big) on S19’s list often had more than 2x that number.
The commuter school issue is something we closely examine at any of the schools where the majority of kids are from in-state. I originally attended a school that was a total suitcase school and found the overall experience disappointing. My younger brother attended UF from 1998-1999. He was placed in a triple and both of his roommates were gone literally every weekend. He never found his place there and returned to finish up at our home state flagship. I want to avoid that situation for my kids. The two in-state UCF kids we talked to seemed to indicate they were going home 1-2 weekends a month. The in-state UF students did not seem to be leaving as much. So this is just something we would look into further in this process. I think visiting on a weekend at any school is the best way to assess probably.
I am not worried about not being able to narrow the field as I want S19 to feel like he has as many options as possible. I still am surprised that he seemed equally taken with two such different schools. Most of his schools are much more similar to UF in feel so I thought the less traditional feel of UCF would be a negative but I was wrong in this case.
S19 has so many things in play right now that nothing will be sorted out till March/early April.
But the point of both of my posts - UF and UCF are both amazing NMF options to have available and both provide lots of opportunity. It truly would probably just come down to personal preference and fit for most students.
@Phlipper - thanks, was hoping you would chime in with your daughter’s experience! I do think S19 would find his group - he is a runner and has an interest in some of the engineering design team type clubs so lots of opportunities for a cross-section of friends. I do like that he could room with other OOS kids. And, in reality, most engineering students will be spending a decent part of their weekend studying! If he chooses UCF, he is actually leaning towards Neptune for now more due to the summer expense with Towers. I have to say, the housing at UCF is the best we have seen at the 8 colleges we have toured thus far.
When you are looking to send your kid a plane ride away, you get very particular with some aspects that others just don’t worry about. I feel like my neurotic concerns now will hopefully alleviate stress next year!