National university VS. Liberal arts colleges?

Sorry if this has been asked already. I Googled and I still didn’t understand the difference. If someone could clarify the differences, pros, and cons, that would be great

Perhaps your Google search turned up less-than-optimal results because the term is “liberal arts” colleges. Just “liberal” means something else entirely.

There are many threads on this on CC. May also try using LAC for liberal arts colleges in your search.

use this- difference between university and LAC in a google search and it will produce many informative results.

It is very simple and don’t go beyond this, Liberal Arts Colleges in the modern definition teach only undergraduates. The functional differences are that you will be taught by professors not other students and the classes are small. You can also experience this at a national university like Notre Dame, but it would be the exception.

In the United States there is no such thing as a “national university,” in the vein of schools in mainland Europe and Asia. Of course there are American colleges that enjoy a national reputation. Our military academies are the closest thing we have that resemble national universities.

The point where many get tripped up is with the term “liberal arts.” Liberal arts, as practically defined, is the study of the sciences and math, humanities and fine arts and social sciences. This study can be lecture based, discussion based, lab based, research based, or even field based. For those who want to study within these disciplines, this can then take place within a greater environment that has specialty, graduate and profession schools associated with it, as in a “national university,” or within a purely undergraduate focused environment, as in a “national liberal arts college.”

Agree with @merc81 . It is especially difficult to explain to international students because in many languages the word, “college” - as opposed to the word, “university” - is translated as “high school”. The LAC is an American invention. Almost every Ivy League university, with exception of Cornell, grew out of what was essentially a LAC with a few buildings, some playing fields, and a handful of professors, many of whom were clergymen.

The terms college and university were virtually interchangeable until late in the nineteenth century when graduate school training, based on the German model, took root in this country and the term “university” tended to be reserved for those placess where students could pursue advanced degrees side by side with baccalaureate students, the latter being attached to what, on many campuses, is referred to as the college of arts and sciences.

The hundred or so true LACs left in this country are organized roughly the same way as a college of arts and sciences; they cover the same subject matter, afford the same training for med school and grad school. They’re just smaller.

Regrets can run both ways of course, but this is what then candidate, now Massachusetts governor, Charlie Baker had to say regarding his choice of a university over a LAC when asked to take the Proust Questionnaire by the Boston Globe:

Q: What is your greatest regret?

A: Not going to Hamilton College. I never really felt comfortable at Harvard.

The notion of “Liberal Arts Colleges” and “National Universities” is a false dichotomy. A more useful classification construct is to place schools within a two dimensional continuum.

One dimension is the percentage of majors that offer graduate degrees. In this dimension a “Pure College” would represent the end of the spectrum with no graduate degrees and a “Pure University” would represent the end of the spectrum with 100% of majors with graduate degrees.

The second dimension is the percentage of degrees awarded in the Liberal Arts vs the Professions. In this dimension, a “Pure Liberal Arts School” would represent one end of the spectrum and a “Pure Professional School” would represent the other.

LACs have few (or no) graduate degree programs.
They have few (or no) pre-professional majors (in fields such as architecture, engineering, nursing).
Their mission is to broadly educate thought leaders for academia, civic life, government, and the national economy.

Research universities do that too, but also train specialists. They grant graduate and professional degrees (including Master’s degrees, MDs, and PhDs). Their undergraduate divisions provide opportunities for PhD candidates to practice teaching. Their primary mission is create and share knowledge (including theoretical knowledge to increase understanding of many subjects, as well as applied knowledge to benefit American industry, agriculture, government, finance, national defense, health care, etc.)

Adding to all that, LACs focus on teaching undergraduate students. Professors may do research, but they are primarily there to teach. There aren’t (usually) any graduate programs offered. They tend to be smaller than universities. Classes tend to be smaller as well.

Most LACs offer majors in at least math, the sciences, the social sciences, English, foreign languages, sometimes the arts.

LACs tend to be private though there are a few public ones, universities are both private and public.

There are exceptions.

“Their [LACs] mission is to broadly educate thought leaders for academia, civic life, government and the national economy.” (#10)

Because this is only partly true, it appears incorrect to me. Their mission is as above for certain students, but for all students their mission is less grandly to 1) further the development of skills related to speech and writing and, critically and crucially, 2) foster a basic competency in the skills and knowledge related to a student’s major. Consequently, a LAC graduate may be as likely to become a geologist or computer programmer as a thought leader, though a combination from the preceding is possible as well.

However, more advanced courses may not be as numerous, or may be less frequently offered (e.g. once every two years for a given course).

Some, however, are rather specialized on their offerings, such as Harvey Mudd and Sarah Lawrence.

The ones that people talk about on these forums are private; seems like the public ones are largely ignored.

My D is at a LAC currently. My S looked at one LAC and felt it was too small. The idea is for each person to figure out what type of environment would be right for him/her. Here are some attributes of a LAC:

-Small classes all taught by professors. Her largest class was 60 (intro to psych) and she has had a number of classes with between 6-12 students. My S went to a mid-sized university and his typical class size was around 30-40 which was very manageable for him. Large universities often have huge lecture classes particularly for introductory coursework.

-There are no grad students at a LAC. So classes are all taught by full professors.

-Having no grad students also means that when professors do research, they have undergrad students work with them. My D has sought out research opportunities and by the time she graduates will have worked on 4 research projects with 3 professors (including two summers spent on campus being paid to do research). She expects to be named as a co-author on two studies she worked on when they are (hopefully) published.

-My D’s LAC does offer engineering as well as a wide variety of liberal arts majors. If you want a specialty such as engineering or businesses it is important to determine if the LAC you are considering offers those programs

-Because of their size, LACs typically don’t have the huge sports programs that a large school can offer, but some rivalries do exist (for example my D’s LAC has a huge rivalry which is a big deal every year).

thanks everyone, this helps a lot and gives me a waaaay better idea

@jimmylieu173 Another interesting comparison is that the children of professors go to liberal arts colleges at a rate about 3 - 5 timed higher than the general public.

When speaking of large research institutions, I prefer the term “comprehensive universities” to distinguish them from liberal arts colleges.

Re: Post No. 7.

In spanish, La Escuela Secundaria =. Colegio, i.e. high school.

“When speaking of large research institutions, I prefer the term ‘comprehensive universities’” (#17)

Since many of them do not grant undergraduate degrees in fields such as business, nursing and education, this wouldn’t appear to be an accurate term for these schools as a class.