@Mathman45 Honestly, you can stop asking the same question over and over. Even if I had a subjective opinion, what difference would it make anyway? If I said you had no chance, would it keep you from applying?
@MathMan45 - Even without the possible UOM hook, I think you have decent chances provided the following:
- it’s clear your 3.68 GPA is the result of academic rigor and not because of obvious slacking
- you have strong recommendations
- you nail your essays.
You come across as the type of candidate Harvard would be interested in - a diversity of interests and academic qualifications that will hopefully offset your GPA. Your GPA is low for Harvard but it’s not off-the-charts low.
As others have mentioned, admissions at this level are fickle to it’s wise to plan on applying to multiple top schools. I would think that applying SCEA to Harvard is a good strategy - if you get deferred because they want to see your first semester grades before deciding, you should be no worse off than you would be if you applied RD.
You’ve received a lot of great advise here. Best of luck!
@falcon1 sorry to annoy you. I am just anxious as every one is about college decision
That tells me two things, both of which help you.
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it means you’re probably from an underrepresented state, because 17 APs wouldn’t cut it for State AP Scholar in states like CA, NY, NJ, etc.
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it means you’ve taken an incredibly rigorous course load, which helps mitigate your GPA.
If you were 100% NA, I’d say your chances were excellent. I’m not qualified to gauge the value of a 1/8 NA hook, but I do consider you a competitive applicant.
Thank you so much @sherpa! A significant amount of those AP’s were self studied . Would this make an notable difference?
Here, I’ll take a stab at your question.
Let’s forget about your URM status for the moment.
Colleges place MORE weight on a student’s GPA, as it’s a 3-year window into their scholastic ability, whereas a test score is a 3-hour window into that same potential.
Your ACT score of 35 is out of sync with your GPA, meaning that it will raise an eyebrow in committee meetings. Admissions Officers are going to be asking themselves . . .
- Why did @Mathman45 struggle in school while being able to ace his ACT exam?
- Was s/he lazy in school?
- Did they not have the drive or determination to do the work in school?
- How is it possible for a student to take 17 AP tests, score 5's on most of them, but have a 3.68 GPA?
- Is the work load at their high school very difficult?
- Does the high school have grade deflation?
- Did @Mathman45 have massive test prep to score so high for the ACT with a 3.68 GPA?
Admissions Officers will be looking closely at your teacher recommendations and guidance counselor report to answer these questions. So, your teachers are really going to have to go bat for you. This is especially true if you are not ranked in the top 2 to 3% of your high school’s class – as that is where your ACT score places you.
Now back to the URM question: Twenty years ago, there was a significant gap between URM and non-URM test scores and GPA. But over the years that gap has been closing, at least for African Americans and Hispanics. If you look through last year’s decision threads, you will see many URM’s with 3.8 GPA and 34, 35, and 36 ACT scores (or the SAT equivalent) and they are being accepted and rejected at about the same rate as non-URM student’s. There is not enough statistical data from Native American’s to know if they too have closed the gap over the years as well.
So, my guess is that your chances are going to greatly depend upon your teacher recommendations and guidance counselor report and how you are rated in comparison to your peers. You should have an honest and open discussion with your GC and teachers. Make sure they know you scored a 35 on your ACT, as they will have to write against your grades. Best of luck to you!
I suppose part of it might depend on whether you get categorized under Native American or multi-racial. My children are triracial and I leave it up to them whether they want to list the race that they have the least amount of heritage from.
It was clear after he was admitted that they noted one of his races and sent him emails based on that.
I’m trying to say that if you are a high SES and grew up with a lot of advantages that are clear from your zip code or ECs or studies, it may mitigate any advantage the URM status gives you.
If you are involved with your tribe, I’d make sure to include that with your ECs if at all possible.
BUT: I wouldn’t worry that much about your GPA, other than working on improving it. I don’t even know if you need the Native American hook based on your ECs.
I have to object to ever putting safety and Dartmouth in the same sentence. Certainly it might enhance your chances, even significantly, but one just cannot put the word safety there.
As far as your chances, I tend to agree that your GPA won’t pull you down as much as you might think based on everything else in your resume. Certainly getting over 3.7 UW after first semester senior year could help, even though logically it shouldn’t make that much difference. Psychologically it just might, and also schools always like a strong showing junior year and start of senior year. That might make the bigger difference than the effect on your number.
And while I cannot say with authority that living or not living on a reservation is a consequential issue, I do think that they care if it seems you are using the NA blood as a convenient way to get into Harvard or Princeton, or that you truly do bring some of that cultural heritage with you to their school. Or maybe not, maybe they just like being able to say we have X number or X% NA in our class, aren’t we great for our diversity. Who knows. The bottom line is it won’t hurt you, and likely will help some. The only question is how much, and that no one knows for sure.
I know you are trying to lessen your anxiety some, but the truth is this won’t do it at all. You can only apply and see what happens. As everyone will tell you, the two schools you have chanced about are impossible to really give any meaningful odds on, regardless of circumstances. Everyone will also tell you to have several non-HYPS types where you think you could be really happy, because not getting into any HYPS could happen to anyone, and happens to thousands and thousands every year. Your anxiety level is likely to be less if come to peace with that possibility ahead of time, not tie it into your self-esteem at all because the truth is it absolutely shouldn’t, and then if you are pleasantly surprised and get into one of these two or a similar school, Hallelujah.
Make sense, @mathman45?
@gibby thank you for that long and thought out response. Considering your suggestion about teacher recommendations, I have a pretty superb recommendation from a Harvard grad as described in my first post. In addition, with reference to those questions you posed, I have a significant increase from a 3.5 in my sophomore year to a perfect 4.0 in my junior year. This has to do with my diagnoses of ADHD but then again there is never an excuse for a subpar GPA and I am not entirely sure if I should emphasize this on my app…
Yes thanks for your detailed post @fallenchemist
You are welcome, and that 4.0 junior year is pretty big, as I alluded to in my post. Do that first semester senior year, and I would say you have helped yourself considerably. Along with the ACT score, the entrepreneurial and other aspects of your EC’s and yes, your NA hook, it makes it seem better than if that 3.68 had just been a steady GPA every semester. @Mathman45
@Mathman45 No worries. I understand your anxiety.
@fallenchemist I was just engaging in some hyperbole which I should have been more clear about. Obviously, a school like Dartmouth is no safety for anyone. However, with 4% Native Americans in their last freshman class, it’s clear they have a penchant for seeking out qualified Native American applicants.
What kind of scores did you get on your AP tests? And, in your estimation, what were the reasons for your grades being incongruous with your many test scores? Are you an autodidact who enjoyed studying these other subjects on your own or something? (uh oh, objection your honor - leading the witness).
Understood. I am a fan of the occasional hyperbole! I just thought it was important that a high school student not misunderstand.
I believe he said he got all 5’s except for a couple of 4’s. Right under where he states his UW GPA. I think he also addressed the incongruity issue as a late diagnosis of ADHD and that he now got a 4.0 his junior year, which seems to me to address the incongruity issue.
@falcon1 XD all of my AP’s were 5’s with few anomalies (1 or 2 4’s). As stated before, I was diagnosed with ADHD in my sophomore summer and was dealing with domestic issues as well as being bullied but I don’t know what extent this goes to be compensation
I think it gos a long way in that direction based on your 4.0 junior year. The proof, as they say, is in the eating of the pudding. Actually most people say “The proof is in the pudding”, but that is a misquote 
I don’t know that it needs to be “emphasized” (post #28) in your app, the results speak for themselves. You can be matter-of-fact about it and just say something like “Several issues in my life were resolved prior to my junior year, including a diagnosis and treatment for ADHD. This led to my being able to reach my true potential in the classroom and obtain a 4.0 with an extremely rigorous schedule.”
@fallenchemist That is what my GC said and I believe that is what I am going to follow through on thanks again for putting me on the right track
That’s what we are here to try and do!
Nobody is a shoo-in nowadays unless your surname is Obama, Kennedy, or Gates. You do stand out though. I think you have a high chance. You can definitely get into a lot of the selective LACs. You’re an amazing applicant, no doubt. Congratulations, your hard work is taking you places. Just keep your options open. Looking forward to seeing you post your stats to an H/P decisions thread with a green heading. 
Stepping up to a 4.0 Junior year, especially while slaying all those self-study APs, is no mean feat. Riding the raging social and emotional storms that Junior year typically brings is enough to drop most students’ GPA’s by dozens of “basis points.” Rising above bullying and gaining social and emotional clarity in that 16/17 year old body and brain is something I imagine the Admissions Committee will appreciate. After all, they do really understand people of your age, and all that goes along with that.
If you do not apply to Harvard or Princeton, you will not get in. If you do apply, you will be a strong candidate, but you still may not be accepted. I would not waste time worrying about it. Apply and let it go. If you don’t get in, it won’t be because you are not qualified.
@Polgylot and @ItsJustSchool Thanks for your kind words!