Thanks. Keeping options open is definitely what seems to make most sense at the moment. Given the timing of all this, it does seem that there really isn’t much difference between getting a solid early acceptance than a likely letter in the RD round.
Our experience was a little different so I will throw this into the mix. Our son was recruited by several Ivies after attending camps in the summer. I assume he would have been top band with a 2230 SAT and 4.0 UW GPA. He narrowed it down to two of the schools based on what he liked about the schools and majors. We went to both for OV. He was told by the head coach( with us in the room ) at one that he was the top choice in that position and that admissions would be reading his application after the holidays. The other school had read his application and he was told that he would get the letter once they heard from him that they were his first choice. He liked both schools and was waiting to hear back from the one in early Jan. before deciding. Turns out, a D1 commit in the same position decided he wanted Ivy and decommitted and chose the school that we were waiting to hear back on. Word travels fast in the small world of Ivy Recruiting. The other school let us know what was happening and when our son called the school in question, they back peddled and said that they were not ready to offer a spot. So…long story short, until you get the likely letter, which will not happen until admissions reads the app, nothing is a done deal. So I don’t think you need to apply SCEA or EA either. Just apply, go to OV’s and wait til you get a letter. Also, a lot can happen during high school football season. We know of 2 Ivy commits in our area that have had major ACL/Knee injuries in the last 2 weeks. No guarantees. Good luck. Our son is having fun and working harder than most of the kids on the team since he chose engineering.
If the concern is that a likely letter is somewhat less “solid” than an acceptance letter, I don’t think that is a concern at all. Everything that I have seen and read indicates that a likely letter is essentially an offer of admission. If I recollect correctly, the letter my son received was pretty explicit that he would be offered admission on “decision day”. I believe all the schools use pretty definitive language. Certainly, if you read the Ivy Common agreement the “probalistic communication” is intended to be an early notification. It is far more than a “hey, your chances look pretty good - we will call you”
I can only think of two very minor downsides to waiting things out. One, it might be that it will take longer for the likely letter review process at the particular school your son chooses, depending on when he decides and when the committee plans to meet over the holiday/break season. Two, as an RD admit (as opposed to an EA admit) the coaching staff will not be able to directly send work out plans, etc to your son until an offer of admission has been formally extended. This will require your son to text one of the upperclassmen in his position group to send him the materials.
Of course, this all presupposes that someone else doesn’t “jump the line” as it were. There are finite seats available, and each team only needs a certain number of DEs in a class. By the same token, there are only so many Band 3 slots in each class. Your son does need to recognize that delaying his commitment does pose some small risk that all the chairs will be gone by the time he decides where he wants to sit. Personally, I doubt this is a legitimate risk, because realistically whether Yale (for example) takes two or three DEs next year is not going to mess up their board. Something like 50% of Ivy players change position, one of them may bulk up and be a DT, etc. But I would advise him to stay in close contact with his recruiting coach at each school over these next weeks so he can learn if his offer is in jeopardy at any one school. I would think this would become particularly important as you slide into January (and classes start to fill) if he hasn’t made his decision by then.
Thanks for the insights, @dansmoaustin and @Ohiodad51. Son is visiting schools and watching those final Ivy games play out this weekend. Makes it interesting all around for recruiting when 3 Ivies share the League title. Also sobering to see how the whim of injuries can affect a team’s season. @Ohiodad, was your son one of those Freshman D-Line players out there battling Dartmouth today? Hats off to them! My son bumped himself up into the 4th band, which has helped his position. Just hoping the there aren’t too many “line jumpers” getting ready to jump in ;-). Happy that we are finally getting closer to the finish line…
@morningsun, nope, my kid is an o lineman. You are right about injuries though. It was a real tough year for Princeton. starting the way they did and then losing 4 games by one score. Especially since they had the ball late in each one of those games. Just did not have the (healthy) horses to close the deal. It happens, and the bright side is that a lot of young guys got some time this year so they won’t come in “cold” next year. I assume you were in Hanover yesterday? Hope your son had a great trip.
It’s over. The crazy recruiting process. Son committed to Penn 2 days before Christmas. His mantra, “All I want for Christmas is a Likely Letter” (which he got). 4 OVs in December. We’re all exhausted and relieved, especially watching the recruiting process heat up and get ugly at the end - not so much for my son, but for some others we met on those visits. Some coaches definitely not displaying behavior we would like them to be teaching our sons. The most important thing that I would want to share with others on the Ivy recruiting track for football is to be very careful about trusting the bands. My son was 4th band and the football coaches really wanted him, but it ended up that neither Harvard or Yale would admit him because of some issues the Admissions Office had with his transcript. I think this ‘second layer of admissions’ is more of an HYP thing than the others, but important to know that just making the band isn’t necessarily enough. As it turns out, I think Penn is a perfect choice for my son, who plans to study business, and has a place at Wharton. We’re very excited for the next stage. Thanks for all the advice, especially to @Ohiodad51 .
That’s great, @morningsun - it feels good once you can put it all behind you. You bring up a good point that hitting the AI number to fit in a band isn’t enough. We say it a lot on this board, coaches don’t admit - only the admissions office can do that. I wouldn’t really call it a ‘second layer of admissions’, it’s really the only layer of admissions that counts. Congratulations again to you and your son.
^^Agreed.
Morningsun, if you are comfortable answering, when did you find out that H and Y would not accept on academic grounds–during the pre-read process or after offers were extended and applications were filed (RD I guess, since there are multiple schools involved?
I think readers–including me–might have very different impressions of the process based on the answer.
Congrants @morningsun and son! Talk about a great Christmas present. Sorry to hear about the unpleasantness at Harvard and Yale. I do think you are right that things can be a bit trickier at HYP. Not only are the bands higher, but it seems that every once in awhile admissions wants to draw a line and make sure everyone knows who is boss. That said, Penn is a great school (Ohiomom’s personal favorite in fact), and I wish your son the best nine weeks out of ten. See you at Palmer field week eight!
All along, Harvard was pretty up front about the Admissions part being more than the AI, but we didn’t find out until after the OV. Since he was in the 4th band, we thought/hoped that would override any concerns Admissions might have about his transcript (essentially a few Cs in weighted classes), given that the 1st, 2nd and 3rd band applicants are more likely to have even more questions on their transcripts. He had submitted his application RD a couple of weeks prior to the OV. He had an Admissions Interview while we were there on OV, which seemed to go pretty well, but obviously didn’t sway things enough. Murphy told him at the OV that they really wanted him and that he would try to lobby for him, but it turns out, he couldn’t win them over. At least, that’s the official story (and, in this case, I think the true story). No hard feelings towards Harvard on this one, just some disappointment in the moment. With Yale, it was less clear. They asked him to apply SCEA, which he did at the last minute,and it came as a surprise to learn at the OV that there were the same issues with Admissions, since he had been told by Reno prior to the OV that he was ‘completely cleared by Admissions’ and that all he needed was a nod from my son. When we asked Reno about that at the OV, he said that when he had said ‘completely cleared’, he had meant in terms of AI. As you can imagine, we thought that was an important caveat to have omitted to share with us, particularly since he had applied SCEA, so we thought that Admissions would have completely processed his application by then.
… Meant to tag @fenwaypark on the response above…
@ohiodad51. I think you hit the nail on the head about the Admissions Offices wanting to show who’s boss.Must be good to have your son home for the holidays! Hope Princeton has an injury-free season next year… I doubt we’ll make it to many games before sophomore year (it’s a haul from here), but you never know 
Well, that is a sobering story. Even for someone who is fully aware that Admissions has the final say.
And I admire your equanimity. Don’t think it would be unjustified for anyone to feel a bit betrayed in these circumstances.
I guess we will never know, but I am still thinking your situation (twice) represents a small minority of cases. Specifically, where an Ivy recruit has full coach support from experienced coaches, is within one standard deviation of the campus AI, apparently passed pre-reads, is encouraged to apply, does apply–early in one case…and ends up being rejected.
At least I hope it is a small minority of cases.
Glad everything worked out well in the end.
Thanks for sharing how things turned out Morningsun and congratulations! That’s a great outcome that your son is going to Penn and Wharton.
I am a bit surprised to hear how things went at Yale in particular as I would have expected him to be admitted with the positive pre-read and asking him to apply SCEA. All’s well that ends well though.
^^Sounds to me like a pre read wasn’t actually done, frankly. Or if a pre read was done, maybe it was done when the recruit was slotted in the 3rd band. Maybe Yale has different expectations for course rigor, etc in the 4th band rather than the 3rd. Either way, pretty sloppy work.
@fenwaypark I think this particular situation may not be typical, but I do think that it is fairly common for things not to be transparent throughout the process, and recruits often do get badly let down at the end even in the Ivies, not because they don’t understand the process or aren’t asking the right questions, but because the coaches are not straight with them.
@bluewater2015 and @Ohiodad51, Based on what was said during the process and how things played out at the OVs, my best guess is that Harvard knew all along that it would be hard to get him past Admissions, but they really wanted him and were hoping that the interview and/or Murphy’s lobbying after the OV might somehow be the game changer. My son made it into the 4th band largely based on his high ACT score (33), because the AI is weighted 2/3 in favor of the test score and 1/3 GPA. His recruiting coach at Harvard had said all along that Admissions were often skeptical about kids with high standardized test scores and lower GPAs, because it suggests that they can do the work but don’t really apply themselves. (This may be true in some cases, but not in my son’s case - it has more to do with him being a 3-sport varsity athlete all 4 years, attending an extremely rigorous HS that is stingy with grades, and various other factors…). The Yale process was more haphazard and I could easily see that assumptions could have been made without a proper pre-read. With Penn, things were a whole lot more straightforward, thankfully.