My son (a senior, DE/TE) is receiving a lot of recruiting attention from D1 to D3 schools, including several Ivies, which is where his greatest interest lies. Several of them want him to apply Single Choice Early Action, which is tricky because it means putting all his recruiting eggs in one basket without having a clear commitment on the school’s side. Any advice on how to approach this?
There are others on here who know about football specifically, but I think that your son should get a commitment from his chosen school before applying early, if he’s drawing a lot of recruiting interest.
In the Ivies there are typically a few steps to this, after coaches have identified him as a prospect:
-He submits his academics for a pre-read by the admissions office
-Assuming that’s positive and the team wants to proceed, they invite him for an official visit
-If all goes well, they offer him one of their limited admissions slots (I believe 30/year in Ivy football) and often ask admissions to send a Likely Letter (physical letter from admissions saying he is likely to be admitted, assuming he keeps his grades up - in practical terms this is essentially the same thing as being admitted) after he submits his full application
-He gets his formal acceptance at the same time as any other applicant, but with the LL in hand this is a foregone conclusion unless he starts flunking classes, or gets arrested, etc.
In the Ivies, HYP have SCEA (which commits the school but not the student) and the other five schools have ED, which is binding on the student if accepted. Even at HYP where they don’t technically have to attend, my sense is that a very high percentage of athletes admitted SCEA end up attending. As they should in my opinion, since they took one of the team’s precious slots.
@Morningsun, will any of the coaches at the Ivies he likes give him one of their admissions “slots” or do they want him to apply without any guarantee of getting one of the slots?
I would not recommend applying SCEA without a clear indication from the head coach that 1) a pre read has occurred and was positive, 2) a financial pre read was done by the FA office and is acceptable, and 3) the coach has unambiguously stated that he will support the recruit for a likely letter from admissions. All of the Ivys use likely letters routinely for football, and I would be very leery of a coach who waffles on a commitment to seek a letter in your individual case. Also, at most if not all Ivys, football official visits occur after the SCEA/ED deadline, and quite a lot of recruiting occurs after that deadline as well.
Thanks all for your responses! Very helpful. The ED schools interested are not pushing for ED (even though my son is talking to head coaches and they are talking him up a lot). @GnocchiB , they are all talking about slots and bands. The discussions with Harvard in particular seem to be heading towards the scenario outlined by @Ohiodad51 , but we are not quite there yet. It is very helpful to know what we should expect if they are serious about their interest. They are encouraging my son to make an unofficial visit ASAP (because they say it will help with admissions), but don’t seem ready to offer an OV. Interesting that OVs tend to happen after the SCEA/ED deadline. Why is that?
It is great, I think, that the coaches are talking about slots.There is only one form of support in the admissions process that Ivy coaches can offer. And that is a slot. If an applicant does not get a slot, athletic achievements amount to nice extra curricular activities.
There are not two levels of support a coach may offer, one strong, one softer–with the strong level being slot plus likely letter and the softer level being slot without likely letter. The coach wishes and hopes that all the slotted athletes get LLs, but whether they do or not is outside the coach’s control.
The coach gives the Admissions Office all the information the Admissions Office needs to exercise the Admissions Office’s discretion on whether to issue a likely letter for each slotted athlete, and then it is up to Admissions. Factors often taken into account are possible competitive offers by NLI schools and the time remaining between the date the application was submitted and the official decision date–be it ED/SCEA or RD.
At Brown last year, 78% of recruited athletes were admitted ED. You can deduce that by noting in this article that 26% of the 617 who were admitted early were athletes, and Brown limits itself to 205 slots.
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2014/12/11/20-percent-early-decision-applicants-offered-admission/.
So ED is the rule, at Brown at least.
As for OVs, my limited experience is that the Ivies are eager to offer them to top recruits who say the school is one of their top few choices. An OV that occurs after an Early application is filed, certainly is a safer investment for the school, because there is proof that the school is the top choice. Without knowing more I would say Ivies offering OVs are more interested in the recruit than Ivies suggesting unofficial visits. (D3 OVs are comparatively rare and are a separate issue)
@Morningsun, Ohiodad 51 will know better about football, but I would assume the main reason official visits can be later is because the NLI signing date is later in football (February I believe) than in some other sports (November).
Obviously the Ivies do not use NLIs, but many of their recruits are also being recruited by scholarship schools, so the NLI dates still influence timing at the Ivies.
@bluewater2015 is correct, OVs in football happen after November 1 because football is a February signing sport. Also, the Ivys are in the heart of their season (as are most high schools) in the weeks leading up to November 1, and doing an OV during that time would be very hard. My son only went on one OV, but several of his current teammates, as well as several former high school teammates, also went on OVs to most of the Ivys. If I remember correctly, they all occurred between Thanksgiving and Christmas. While my son committed in early July, if I remember correctly he did not even know when his OV would be until late October. So there is time yet in the process for that step.
If there is one thing I have learned through this board and my son’s recruitment, it is that relying on anecdotal stories about recruiting in other sports is not always helpful. Broad strokes, sure, but on the detail level, things really are different in football than what you see relayed here. Remember that not only does football sign in February, but it is the only sport with the band system in place, and there are far more recruits in football every year than in any other sport. This makes recruiting for football much different than in other sports.
If you have read this thread, you should know that I disagree with @fenwaypark about the different levels of support in the Ivy, and the reasons therefore. Not to go through all that again, but I would make three points, based on my own personal knowledge of helping my son and observing the recruitment of maybe a dozen other football players over the last five or so years.
One, all Ivy teams offer likely letters as a matter of course in football. If they did not, they would get destroyed in recruiting, because that is the language of recruiting and the accepted expression of support. If your son is not being offered support for a letter, I would assume he is not being supported. Period.
Two, all Ivys recruit well past November 1. If you follow the recruiting boards, you generally see two waves of Ivy football commits. One in the summer/early fall (before November 1) and one later in November/December (after football season). This pattern extends over each Ivy school, and I think is caused by both the press of business during the season and the intricacies of the band system. The only Ivy I know who put any kind of pressure on kids to commit by a certain time was Penn, and that may have changed now that Priore is the head coach. Of course, Bagnoli may be providing expiring offers at Columbia now. I just don’t know. The only current senior I know personally being seriously recruited in the Ivy is not being recruited by either school. What is much more common is a coach saying if you get your application in by x, it can be reviewed by y, and you will know if you are getting a letter by z. But kids commit to all Ivys well past November 1 every year. My son committed early because he wanted to be done before his senior season started. Other kids want to wait to see what else shakes out. YMMV.
Third, do not confuse a slot in the band system with what @fenwayoark calls a slot for purposes of support. Football coaches in the Ivy talk about what slot a kid is in the band system all the time, because that is how the world of football recruiting works. But beware of a coach saying something like “if you get a 30 on the next ACT we can use a band 3 slot on you”. This is far different than saying a coach will support a kid for a letter. Invariably, every offer of support of which I am personally aware came directly from the head coach, involved a promise to submit the kid’s name for a likely letter, (along with information on when admissions would review the request and how the kid would find out the decision) and was in no way conditional. In short, if your son is in line for a letter from Harvard, Murphy will tell him so directly and clearly, as well as providing information on what needs to be submitted, when the committee is expected to meet, and how notification of the likely letter decision will be transmitted (usually a call from the admissions office or an e mail of the letter).
Hope this helps. Any further questions, ask.
Wow! Thank you @Ohiodad51. I am feeling less inclined to run out and hire a recruiter now. As you say, Ivy recruiting is very complicated because of the dance that has to happen between the coaches, the admissions offices and the recruits. There is so much uncertainty for everyone, and the recruiting season coinciding with both the HS and college seasons adds another dimension of complexity. It’s exciting, but it’s also very stressful.
I am relieved to hear what you say about there being two recruiting waves for the Ivies, because I was wondering if we were a bit late to the dance. My son dislocated his elbow in a 7on7 game in June and wasn’t able to participate in the summer camps he had planned. A couple of schools have indicated that he likely would have been offered a slot if he had attended their camps, but felt the need to see him play this season because they weren’t able to see him head to head with their other recruits. Fortunately, he is rocking it on the field. Harvard only started talking to him a couple of weeks ago (based on his recent highlights), but they have been very attentive and have been doing a lot of due diligence (talking to his coach, his counselor at school, me…)
My son talked to Murphy yesterday, who told him they would be keeping in ‘very close touch’ and said they would be wanting him to apply SCEA, because it would demonstrate to them that he was really serious about joining their program. He didn’t go into more details than than that, but the recruiting coach has told me that they would only ask him to apply EA if they were going to be fully supporting his application. I now feel like I have the language to be sure that by that they mean a likely letter. Thank you.
A question I still have is how open to be with the other Ivies about what is going on recruiting-wise. There is an ED school (not Penn) that has been pursuing him actively for a while now, but who said way back in July that they won’t be making many of their decisions until after the end of FB season, and haven’t suggested he apply ED. Should my son tell them that he is applying EA to Harvard, or wait until it is a done deal?
@morningsun, yes, it is a complicated process. But on the other hand the Ivy process has one advantage over D1 NLI recruiting, and that is that there are a number of steps in the Ivy process, and as you go through each step you can get a sense on where you stand in the process. Another advantage, in my opinion, is that I personally found that each of the coaches recruiting my son in the Ivy were honest and above board. But others I have been in contact with felt they were misled, so be careful. In my opinion, you need to listen to exactly what the coaches are saying, and understand where you are in the process. Do not assume that because an assistant coach says something that the head coach will extend an offer, or that because a head coach says that they will be in close contact, that an offer is imminent. Take each step as it comes to you and your son, and try not to look ahead.
Given what you have shared here, my first question I would suggest your son ask is has Harvard completed an academic pre read? If the answer to that question is no, then you are way too early in the process to think about shutting down other schools, and I would continue the recruiting process with everyone. If the answer is yes, then what was the result, and what band do the coaches believe your son slots in to? Recognize that once the academic pre read is completed, there should be no impediment to the extension of an offer, and if a pre read has been completed and an offer has not been formally extended yet then no matter what anyone says, they are still evaluating, and I would not assume an offer would be forthcoming.
All that said, if and when an offer comes from Murphy, your son will know it because it will be explicit, and very different from his other recruiting contacts. If at that point you also have a financial pre read and are comfortable with it, and your son is sure he wants to play at Harvard, then I think it is not only appropriate but the right thing to do to tell other schools recruiting him that he has committed to Harvard. But until that point, keep plugging along with everyone.
@Ohiodad51, once again, I really appreciate your input. Your comments helped me have a clearer conversation with my son’s recruiting coach re. the process. To cut a long story short, they are very interested still, but had been talking in generalities about possibilities we may be heading towards, rather than a clear message of “we want to take your application to the admissions office today.” At this point, it does not look like early action will be a happening thing for any school, though that could still change. Because most of the Ivies use unweighted GPA over weighted in their calculations of AI, my son tends to fall in to Band 3. If he was a Band 4, I think we would probably have things settled by now. Several schools are talking about recruiting visits once the season ends. As you predicted, it seems to me that most of the schools have backed off a level in their communications and are more focused on their own season right now, and that we will be in for some craziness in December and January. I can hardly wait 
@Ohiodad51, oh, and one more thing, I found the thread you started relating to your son’s own recruiting process. Interesting and insightful. How are things going for him at Princeton?
@morningsun, glad you got some clarity and have a better picture of where things are headed in your family. Even though things may get nuts after thanksgiving and through the holidays, keep telling yourself that your son will still likely know where he is going to school well before most of his classmates.
I get exactly what you are saying about the bands. I really think that in the Ivy the fact that my son had an AI well into the 4th band was at least as important as the fact that he is a knucklehead who likes to run over people. The higher up the bands you go, the less risk for the coach to pull the trigger and offer.
He is absolutely loving Princeton so far by the way, thanks for asking.
@Ohiodad51 @Morningsun Is the conclusion from this conversation not to apply to Harvard single choice early action–or any of the other Ivies for that matter–because the recruitment is not sufficiently far along?
I understand the logic presented, I think. You don’t have a reliable read yet on where you stand academically, athletically, and financially with the school / team.
At the same time, what is the drawback of still applying to one of of the Single Choice Early Action or even more than 1 Early Action college? Is the drawback that because it’s still early on the information, he might not be designated a slot athlete yet but he may be designated one in time for Regular Decision? And without being a slot athlete he might not get any support from the coach?
What about a school to which someone feels like they will likely be admitted academically without the coach’s support? I don’t know if that’s true for any of the Ivy League schools or any of the other places @Morningsun 's son is looking at. Does that mean that the athlete becomes a walk-in by applying too early? That possibility for scholarship goes away?
Well, the first thing is that until there is a clear and unequivocal offer of support from a head coach, the coaching staff is still evaluating the recruit, and the recruit can not be sure he will ultimately be offered support. I can not stress this point enough. When the head coach decides to offer support, he will. There is absolutely no reason to wait. Until then, the recruit is still being evaluated. Period.
I know that some think that applying early to a school shows commitment to the program, but I doubt seriously that has any sway, at least in football. Certainly not at Harvard, where the thinking is (or at least was) “Of course you want to come here, why ever not?”.
Beyond that though, the problems with applying before the offer are that the coach is under less compulsion ultimately 1) to offer the support at all (he already has the recruit locked), or 2) to take that recruit to the admissions committee meeting discussing likely letters, so that even if the recruit is ultimately being supported, he will not know his admission status until the SCEA/ED decision date.
Additionally, from what is reported on this board a recruit would be burning his or her chance to be recruited in many sports since SCEA/ED is apparently required in many cases. Admittedly this last point is less of a concern for football where all schools recruit into the regular decision round.
And yes, if you are looking at scholarship schools, I would think that your shot at athletic money would drop dramatically as a freshman if you applied SCEA or ED. At that point, you are locked into the school. What inducement does the coach have to offer money?
@Ohiodad51 and anyone else with ideas on this… I have heard that it is unwise to ask Murphy (Harvard) to wait for an answer if he offers you, that he may move on (unless you are important enough to wait for). Is the same true of any other Ivy Head FB Coaches?
My experience has been the opposite. All of the Ivy coaches my son dealt with were not pushy in that respect. As I said earlier Penn was giving exploding offers under Bagnoli, but even then we were talking about weeks or months, not days. Everything I have heard about Murphy is that while he is aggressive, he is also honest, and I would be shocked if he didn’t tell your son what if any conditions were on the offer.
@Ohiodad51, @bluewater2015, @fenwaypark, and anyone else who can weigh in… son now has 3 Ivy offers and 4 OVs scheduled in Dec/Jan. One of the schools that has offered wanted him to apply ED, which he has not done because wants to keep his options open. Another wants him to apply SCEA prior to the OV (deadline has been pushed to Nov 15). Given that it is SCEA, not ED, it seems like he won’t be shutting down options to do this… unless one of the schools wants to turn his RD application into ED/EA if they offer him at the OV in early Dec (or if he decides to accept an existing offer). This seems unlikely (it is so close to the mid-December date for releasing early offers, it seems it might be hard to pull off with Admissions), but wondered if anyone has insight? I know Ohiodad51 has talked about situations where coaches request players to apply RD and then change it to EA/ED once an offer is made and admissions gives the green light, but my impression is that this tends to happen with early recruits, not so much the latecomers in the ‘second’ recruiting round. NB: all the recruiting interest is coming from head coaches fully supporting son’s application, etc…
@morningsun, unless the SCEA offer is contingent on applying SCEA, I don’t see a benefit in applying that way. If I was in your position, I would advise my son to keep his options open, and keep in touch with all the schools to make sure that his offer is not going away. Plan for the OV’s, and continue to gather as much information (including the FA pre reads if not done yet) as he can until he becomes clear in his mind where he wants to spend his next four years. Realistically, I just don’t see a difference between a likely letter ED/SCEA admit and a likely letter in the RD round.
@Morningsun the only thing I would add is, if your son is sure that the SCEA school is his first choice, I could see a possible case for wrapping things up now by accepting the offer and applying. Assuming none of the offers expire before his visits and he needs the visits to figure out his first choice though, I agree that there doesn’t seem to be compelling reason to apply SCEA at that school.
Congratulations on the three offers!