<p>Just wondering about the NCAA clearinghouse rules
Son #2 is a repeat freshman at a prep school. He is possible D1 material in his sport
In reading the newest NCAA eligibility guidelines, it looks like he will need a waiver to enter colllege as a D1 recruit. If I am reading the rules correctly, it looks like the guidelines require graduation within 8 semesters of entering grade 9</p>
<p>Does anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks</p>
<p>The NCAA has a help hotline (ncaa.org) and can answer your specific question. You do not have to give your name. You definitely do not want to get a wrong answer here. Call them asap.</p>
<p>We did that. They actually did not give a definitive answer on this. The college counselor at his school told us that she is “losing sleep at night” over this new rule as many of the students in his school (and many schools in the league–ISL) have lots of students who repeat. Our school counselor has been working with upperclassmen and has gotten D1 waivers for those who repeated.</p>
<p>In our case, he will easily have all 16 core courses completed by the end of his junior year, it is the graduate w/in 8 semesters that is the sticking point</p>
<p>We are in the same situation and I spoke to several people at the ncaa who all reassured me that the rule is not exactly as worded in their recruiting guide. The student-athlete has to have completed all of the core courses within 8 semesters of first beginning high school. (I guess this is what they mean by “graduation” because they just don’t count anything after the 8 semesters). If they didn’t want you in school for 5 years, think of all the PG’s who couldn’t go DI! I am still concerned because although most of my son’s cores will be completed, he could be short in english because the prep school english is considered the same freshman english he took at his public hs. He doesn’t want to have to double up on english next year because he wants to take honors spanish IV and ap spanish. the counselors at his prep school say that is not a problem as they can obtain a waiver and have done so on more than one occasion for others in his situation. I am not comfortable with this, though, because the kids who got waivers were basketball players. the ncaa did say my son could take the english over the summer and suggest byu online. I was told all of their courses are ncaa approved.</p>
<p>^^I see an incomplete thought in my post. I am concerned it was easier to get waivers for basketball players because it might be more of a revenue sport than my son’s sport (soccer), although my husband reassures me that Ivy level basketball is definitely non-revenue.</p>
<p>Ivy League basketball is definitely not the same revenue giant as say, the ACC is. </p>
<p>I don’t know how this rule works out, but it, at least to me, seems that several players who go D1 and eventually to the NBA take longer than 4 years to graduate from high school. If your son is repeating a grade because of a school transfer, then I presume that you have a legitimate excuse. I’m really not an expert, so don’t take my word for it.</p>
<p>It is extremely common in the prep school world for a student to repeat either 8th or 9th grade before the transfer to the prep. Some kids go in as repeat juniors. I read an article that estimates up to 30% of prep school students are repeats (not because of any difficulties…often these are top students).</p>
<p>The 8 semester rule is worrisome for my son and many of his peers at his prep and other schools within the ISL.
Nearly all have repeated a grade when they entered prep–very common as you say, keylyme–it made sense to us academically as well as athletically to have him repeat.
His school is one of the top academic preps in New England and it was a big academic adjustment for him initially
My understanding is this rule from the ncaa was aimed at the so-called “diploma mills” not
your typical prep school but it still means all these kids will likely need waivers</p>
<p>Keylyme–thanks for the advice on the byu online courses—English will likely be the only sticking point for him as with your son as at the end of his 8 semesters he will have had 2 -9th grade english courses, with 10th and 11th–so I guess that will = 3 years of english not 4. The rest of his requirements for clearinghouse will be fulfilled</p>
<p>The NCAA did a huge crackdown on diploma mill prep schools known for BB a couple of years ago so things may have changed, but in the past, many Division I Men’s BB prospects took a fifth year at a prep school before heading off to college. I think that still goes on though so I do not know how they get through around the eight semester requirement. In my are, that was taken care of by the organization that governed high school BB and students were not allowed to compete after eight semesters. The well known BB prep schools did not have to abide by those rules, which is why fifth year athletes went and played there. Does your son have a club coach who knows what is going on? if he is working with ninth graders then he probably works with older HS kids and can tell you if they are getting those waivers and how they are getting those waivers. Usually the NCAA is very explicit about the rules. You obviously do not wish to jeopardize your son’s eligibility so you might wish to open a file with them the next time you talk to them… that way if they tell you one thing when your son is in ninth grade and another when he is in 12th grade, you will be able to appeal. I am sending you a PM with one other idea on how to get this information. If your son is already being recruited (unofficially, of course, since he is too young per NCAA regulations to be officially recruited), then you can ask the college coaches how athletes typically deal with this situation. They will hem and haw, but if your kid is good, they will make sure you get the information you need. Or, your club coach can call a college coach he knows and ask them.</p>
<p>Bessie, are you affiliated with the NCAA? I am curious because it sounds like you have lots of info. I did call the NCAA regarding my son and actually spoke to two different offices about it because I was also concerned for my son’s eligibility. They assured me that the rule was that you had to have your 16 core courses completed in 8 semesters. They consider the junior year your senior year if you repeated. There is no rule about playing only 4 years in prep school like in public. I know our local public athletic assoc. has a rule that you can only play 4 years. I don’t think you need a waiver…at least the NCAA assured me we would not. Now I think I will call and make certain it is on file.</p>
<p>It’s funny what you say about the “diploma mills”; the counselor at my son’s school said that rule was in place to discourage the “basketball mills”. My son’s school has mostly PG’s on the basketball team, but I wouldn’t consider it a “basketball mill” as most of the kids end up at Ivies and many have already signed with a school before coming to the prep.</p>
<p>momof2sons: check out this: [Division</a> I Initial-Eligibility Waivers and PSA Reviews](<a href=“http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:q4zzGL6Bo5cJ:web1.ncaa.org/web_files/regional_seminars/2009/DI/PPT/DI%2520IE%2520Waivers%2520and%2520PSA%2520Rev.ppt+ncaa+eight+semester+rule&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us]Division”>http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:q4zzGL6Bo5cJ:web1.ncaa.org/web_files/regional_seminars/2009/DI/PPT/DI%2520IE%2520Waivers%2520and%2520PSA%2520Rev.ppt+ncaa+eight+semester+rule&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)</p>
<p>Long URL, but it’s an NCAA document regarding the 8-semester rule. It basically does say what I was told on the telephone; the if the student “reclassifies” (i.e. repeats), they are fine as long as they complete the cores within 8 semesters, but even if they don’t, it doesn’t sound like waivers are a huge deal. I know when I spoke w/college counseling at my son’s school, they told me he really doesn’t need to take English over the summer through BYU because a waiver is very easy to get and they get them “all the time”. Many, PG’s and repeats at his school (like your son’s).</p>
<p>I’ve read the rules and I believe it says that only 15 of the 16 courses must be completed in the first 8 semesters, so to assure Keylyme, the repeat of Frosh English will not pose a problem. Now if a student repeats the entirity of a year, it can pose problems for those who do not take a steady stream of academic classes.</p>
<p>In creating this rule, the NCAA was trying to strike a balance between the needs of kids who need the extra year of HS to improve Clearinghouse issues (you can take the top 16 grades including those in the last year to replace earlier grades and use SAT/ACT scores in the PG year as well) while protecting against the folks who use the PG year purely as an extra red-shirt college player development year.</p>
<p>Goaliedad–do you have a reference for the 15/16 course rule?</p>
<p>The college counselor at S#2’s school basically told us today that the NCAA rules are a “moving target”–she is the counselor that deals with all the athletes at the school
She anticipates no problem with a waiver if one is needed at all. English is the only potential issue. Since he is only a freshman and he is well on track academically in terms of meeting/exceeding Clearinghouse rules, she recommended that we revisit this at the end of his sophomore year</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09%20CBSA9c29e699-00f6-48ba-98a9-6456c9b98957.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09%20CBSA9c29e699-00f6-48ba-98a9-6456c9b98957.pdf</a></p>
<p>See Page 4 in the right side column (6th page of the pdf):</p>
<p>Requirement to graduate with your high school class
You must graduate from high school on schedule (in eight
semesters) with your incoming ninth-grade class. If you graduate
from high school in eight semesters with your class, you may use
one core course completed in the year after graduation (summer
or academic year) to meet NCAA Division I eligibility requirements.</p>
<p>right…but these kids are not graduating “on time with their class”. Because they repeated 9th grade, their final (graduation) year that can be used for core courses is their junior year. This alone does not make them ineligible, because the actual rule is that you need to complete the 16 core courses in the first 8 semesters (otherwise the second sentence of the paragraph would not read as it does). If you do not graduate in eight semesters, you may not take a course in the year after high school (this is called the “plus one” exception. PG’s who did graduate in 8 semesters are allowed to take the needed course in their PG year). Repeaters are in a unique situation because their fifth year is not a PG one. I do agree, though, that a waiver is probably very easy to obtain as these kids are not products of diploma mills. They are students at bs with excellent academic records.</p>
<p>Do college coaches access the information collected at the clearinghouse such as transcripts, SAT scores, etc.?</p>
<p>No, the clearinghouse does not give out transcripts, test scores, etc. to coaches. That would probably be a violation of FERPA laws besides being a logistical nightmare.</p>
<p>All they do is review the test scores, courses taken, paperwork supplied, etc. to give a simple yes or no answer to schools asking if a student is eligible to compete in NCAA sanctioned competition.</p>
<p>Yes, schools check. Sometimes the coach is responsible for this, other times it is someone else in the athletic department who is responsible for compliance issues.</p>
<p>No, I am not with the NCAA. I have just had occasion to call and ask questions. The BB/diploma mills I was referring to were “schools” that recruited elite Division one prospects and then held “classes” (or not) in industrial park offices and collected sponsorship money from shoe companies. They were de facto recuiting agencies whose students spent most of their time traveling and playing BB. I was not referring to many fine private high schools who offer fifth year options and also attract some great athletic talent who go on to become collegiate athletes. I have not dealt with eligibility rules for a few years, but it used to be very common for kids to use the “one more class to take” rule to gain a fifth year. Things have likely changed since then. </p>
<p>My experience with coaches is that they (or their staff) are very proactive in checking transcripst, test scores, and courses to make sure that their athletes will be eligible to play and will be cleared by the NCAA. They double check on everything because the final clearinghouse clearance comes AFTER many athletes report for duty at college the summer before their freshman year begins and they do not want any unpleasant surprises.</p>
<p>It is clear that one can not use a course past 8 semesters to count as a core-course, but does anyone know if it is possible to repeat a previous year core course in one’s fifth year for the purpose of improving a grade (GPA) prior to graduation? Any reference for that?</p>
<p>Best to call the NCAA information hotline, they’ll be happy to tell you.</p>