NCSSM or no NCSSM

<p>You are better off remaining where you are. Many kids who leave NCSSM during the first trimester realize that they do not stand out at the school. (Very few kids do - maybe the top 20 in each year group) It’s good that you are aware your grades will likely fall. In fact the school boasts that only 3% of its kids make straight A’s in an average year. The kids who succeed there either are: exceptionally smart (and I do mean exceptionally), capable of self-teaching, or have an already strong background or aptitude in a particular subject. Whether it is chemistry, biology, physics or math, if you have not been previously well-educated by capable teachers, you will suffer the consequences at NCSSM. If you have good academic support at your high school, have not topped out on the AP classes, and are reasonably happy with your homelife and classmates, there is really no good reason for you to leave. </p>

<p>People might not realize they can only take four core classes at NCSSM in the first trimester, five afterwards, whereas most “normal” high schools allow kids to take as many AP classes as they can get approval for. One of the classes your junior year at NCSSM will probably be a repeat of a language course you’ve already taken. Depending upon your high school, your junior year transcript may appear considerably weaker due to fewer classes/repetitive classes (due to placement testing) and lower grades at NCSSM. If you are on a solid trajectory, absolutely do not hurt yourself by switching to NCSSM.</p>

<p>If you need Physics C/multi-variable equations/game theory/or have an interest in research, then apply to NCSSM. That is the only circumstance where I can recommend it.</p>

<p>^I completely agree with that advice.</p>

<p>I go to a school in charlotte, and my school is ranked in top 100. I’ve heard of enloe b/c it was in the same category few years back (I have no idea now), but it’s still very well known in NC. My experience with schools in top 100 in NC is that they can compete with NCSSM very well. In fact, in more ways than one, the public schools unlike NCSSM are way better because they come consecutively ahead in rankings even when they harbor students who may not be as great in academics. This just reenforces the fact that the staff and academic resources are great and meet up to par. As I said, I don’t know much about your school, but the prime reason why I did not choose to apply to NCSSM was because I knew that my school had good contacts with schools like UNC and Duke. Then, it kind of made it unnecessary for me to live far away from home where there were curfews and strict regulations. Atleast when you are at home, you have that freedom to do whatever you want after that bell rings lol. NCSSM may be top notch, but when you think about it…you have to wonder “how can they truly promise so many opportunities to everyone when there is so much competition?” I can possibly seek these opportunities during the summer if I wanted to. As previously posted, NCSSM is nothing like a college setting. Sure you have your dorms and everything but I got that experience out of the way by taking summer college courses at uni. However, if you feel comfortable at leaving your high school, sure do. You will gain a new experience. I think if you are led by interest and motivation…then you should not consider grades at the moment. If you are smart and feel confident, take the risk. Otherwise, be content with your HS and enjoy the years left.</p>

<p>There was so much interest in Science Olympiad, NCSSM required kids to try out for the team. They accepted something like 35. This is an example of what Polobear was talking about. NCSSM doesn’t need to handle everyone who is interested because they don’t need numbers on their team to help them win. Why allow merely bright kids to participate when some of the top science kids in that state can fill those spots nicely, and with a whole lot less trouble? That’s unfortunate for those coming from small high schools who thought going to NCSSM meant more opportunity.</p>

<p>As I said, if you are exceptional, NCSSM can work for you. If you are anything less, you really need to think through the hype. Are there kids who go to UNC/Duke/Ivy league schools/YOUR target college/from your high school? If no, then get out of there! If yes, though, your path to academic success may be already in front of you, with a whole lot less heartache.</p>

<p>I find this thread to be a little sad, to be honest. To preface, I should say that I have little to no experience with NCSSM and am only basing my argument at my own boarding school experience. I’m not sure I buy the idea that you should only go to NCSSM if you’re “exceptional” and can beat out the competition. That’s an extremely short-sighted view of success. I don’t think that being in the top 1-5% of your school/class is the only ticket to opportunity, although it might certainly be easier than the alternatives.</p>

<p>I went to my school and I certainly didn’t enter as an “exceptional” student. The classes were more rigorous and to add to the pressure, most if not all of my classmates were brilliant in their respective field. Like I said, I wasn’t exceptional, but being in exceptional classes and being surrounded by exceptional people forced me to be a better student. After two years, I started earning the respect of my teachers and peers. I still wasn’t the best, but I was certainly better than I ever could’ve been if I stayed at home. My exceptional peers went to Ivys and I went to UNC. Now that I’m here, everything my previous school has taught me has paid off tenfold.</p>

<p>It reminds me a little of the race to nowhere. I think it matters more of what you do in college rather than where you go. One of my classmates said that his two uncles went to UConn and Yale, respectively. One ended up waiting tables while the other ended up a CEO of a Fortune 500. Go Huskies!</p>

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<p>Why in the world do you find a discussion about the best place to attend high school sad? Why is it sad that someone is thinking of their future and taking steps to pursue the college of their dreams? This is a critically important thread for children considering a major life change. And as truly “sad” as it is, you’d better realize right quick that college admissions counselors are looking for a combination of challenging classes, excellent grades, high test scores and interesting extra-curriculars from their applicants, especially competitive colleges like UNC-Chapel Hill. I’m sorry if that sounds formulaic, but hey, it’s a formula. I’m sorry if that sounds like “beating out the competition”, but UNC gets a ton of applications each year. If you hope to get an acceptance, you’d better be willing to compete for it. </p>

<p>At NCSSM, their own literature advises there is a 97% chance a student will not make straight A’s. It is not a high school environment. It is an incredibly difficult environment brought about by a combination of factors, not all of which are academic. Every kid should absolutely consider what their transcript might look like if they attend NCSSM for two years and how it could impact their choice of colleges. Every kid should ask: should I take slightly easier classes at NCSSM so I’ll have straight A’s or should I take the most challenging classes I can, knowing I probably won’t make straight A’s? Could I possibly package myself as well or better at my base high school?</p>

<p>That isn’t a “race to nowhere”, that’s thinking.</p>

<p>I think you misread my point, or perhaps I didn’t state it clearly enough. I’ll try to clarify. I think it’s sad that high schools are being considered “best” not for their individual academic merit, but for the ability of the student to make good grades at said institution. It’s sad to me that students are so concerned with getting As on their transcript than actually learning the most they possibly could from the best possible school.</p>

<p>Here’s my critical point: I think it’s sad that the system exists where students feel pressured to “package themselves” the best, rather than worry about what’s actually INSIDE the package. </p>

<p>We could say that those who “package themselves” the best actually do have the most merit, the best “insides,” but I think that’s an overestimation of the meaning of those illustrious “As” and an underestimation of intangibles that effect the student’s education. </p>

<p>By all means, I can appreciate that in the current college admissions climate, going to a less challenging high school can pay off with a ticket to a top university. That’s fine. I just think that it wastes a lot of the student’s time, potential, and “human capital” (for lack of a better word) in the process.</p>

<p>This does go against the CC model of college admissions and that’s fine. I’d recommend that anyone interested in something similar to my method of thinking check out cal newport (dot) com --no spaces. He writes about alternative methods of college admissions that focus on fostering individual growth, academic rigor, and generally go against the CC model.</p>

<p>Here’s my critical point: I think it’s sad that the system exists where students feel pressured to “package themselves” the best, rather than worry about what’s actually INSIDE the package.</p>

<p>Amen. Very well put.</p>

<p>I always feel a little left out of these discussions, because we did not go the conventional route at all – neither public high school nor private high school nor NCSSM. Our kids are home-schooled by their dad – it’s hard to get more offbeat than that. </p>

<p>I happen to think our kids received an education second to none. (How many high schools, even elite ones, have their students read Xenophon’s Anabasis of Cyrus – in Greek?) But it’s hard to show this, let alone “package” it, because we don’t have some of the conventional “markers,” such as AP classes or even grades, for that matter. </p>

<p>My kids love learning for learning’s sake. My husband has instilled this in them. But I’m not sure to what extent this shows “on paper” (except in older son’s subject SATs). So far, this hasn’t seemed to hurt them. But then, we’ve had to explain ourselves a lot to admissions counselors, LOL! (One lady could not believe we were not using a “canned” home-school curriculum…I guess she had never before dealt with a home-schooling family who’d designed their own curriculum, although many home-schoolers do.)</p>

<p>BTW, it seems too bad that NC does not have a school like NCSMM for liberal arts students. It seems as if math/science, on the one hand, and performance arts, on the other, are the exclusive emphases. Shouldn’t there be something in between? Not all academically gifted kids are either science/math geniuses or singers / dancers.</p>

<p>I absolutely agree with you. So much of what kids do in high school is designed to get them into the right college: Be in this club, but not in that one. Be sure to get a sport on your resume. Show some leadership. Show a passion for something, even if you’re just faking it. I’ve gone through the process four times with my kids and have seen some of their friends package themselves as the next Nobel prize winner. Some are pretty darn smart and possibly could be, but some are just savvy. They know it’s a game and they’ve mastered the rules: get the right classes, get the right recommendations. My niece knows a girl who got a full ride to her top tier college based upon her high school achievements and the girl just sits in her college classes like a zombie…but on paper, “her package”…she’s magnificent. </p>

<p>Sadly, that’s what it’s all about and kids need to be aware of it. Colleges are flooded with applications and one way to start winnowing out the yesses from the probably nots are grades. If a kid can take the same courses at her base school as at NCSSM and can make top grades, she needs to think carefully before putting her GPA in jeopardy. </p>

<p>It would be wonderful if college admissions people could see into the hearts and minds of applicants, but until they can, packaging is what it’s all about.</p>

<p>I also think it would be nice to have a liberal arts early college type school, but there’s no reason to have one. Unlike math and science and performing arts, there is no test or audition to measure interest or aptitude in liberal arts. Essays would be the only real way to measure interest. But I know people who are wonderful writers who are more math/science oriented and also people who are inclined towards the humanities who are not great writers, and writing is so subjective anyway. It is also a bad idea to focus so much on the humanities and not so much on math or science, because the students will not be prepared for college math and science classes. For students academically gifted overall, AP classes are where they get their challenge. I know very well that your son is homeschooled, but that is not the case for most students.</p>

<p>I see what you’re saying, jessimo. I guess I just feel that education has become too specialized and compartmentalized, and that math and science (pace Obama) RULE at the expense of classical liberal arts.</p>

<p>In another sub-forum, I (jokingly) said that we should go back to the medieval Trivium and Quadrivium. If it was good enough for John of Salisbury and Abelard and Thomas Aquinas, then it’s good enough for me. :)</p>

<p>Artemis Dea, I agree with your opinion. This is why I said that if the OP is willing to ignore grades during his decision time, he could truly see whether motivation takes place or not. If there is nothing beyond grades, then stay in your high school and don’t think about NCSSM…because the worst thing you want is to be burned out by the fear of competition. To be honest, I really really don’t believe NCSSM is THAT competitive. I know a lot of people at my school who get into ivies and top schools like UNC and they are brilliant…and I truly mean brilliant. The competition is actually created by the mind…so my best advice:::: Follow your heart and tread on the path you want to take, and when you make your decision, don’t go back and regret it.</p>

<p>Luther, if you are typical of an NCSSM grad, it must be an amazing school indeed. Your perceptive, beautifully written posts are a joy to read!</p>

<p>I think it should probably be noted that after going to NCSSM you don’t have to major in math or science. I wish everyone were afforded the same science background that NCSSM provides for its students. I went to an early college (which I guess WOULD be NCSSM for liberal arts) and I went on to get my BS. Because I placed out of a lot of science courses, though, I was able to take courses in a lot of disciplines I wouldn’t’ve had the chance to.</p>

<p>My perspective goes like this… if you live in an area where there really are NO good public school options then opting out of NCSSM just because you’re afraid of your GPA slipping means that maybe you weren’t strong enough to get into those schools you were dreaming of in the first place. You can’t cheat the field, as they say. Sure, you can get your crappier education at your sender school and then weasel into better schools, but where will that get you? It’s silly not to immerse yourself in the best academic climates when you have the choice.</p>

<p>For me, the real considerations would be this: a. wouldn’t you miss your friends and family? b. is there a local sports team or something like that that you have a strong and long relationship with that would be hampered were you to leave? c. are you already at a strong school? </p>

<p>I’ve heard that NCSSM is hard, but I don’t think it’s as much of a killer as some other schools in the state. I think that’s in large part to do with how much control they have down on you. All good things to think about.</p>

<p>As an in-state student who had many friends leave his high school (a magnet high school) to attend NCSSM, I WOULD say that the benefits are plentiful, but the kids are literally completely exhausted. Nothing but statuses on Facebook such as "I’m so tired…this is too much…can’t stand this class…pulling an all-nighter’. And sure, if you’re willing to go for these types of academic strives, then by all means, enroll. However, honestly, why put yourself through that? It’s not as if colleges are like “Well, s/he attending NCSSM so they must be smart!” No, they still look at your grades like its a normal school. Besides, if you are in-state, there is NO REASON you should be worried about going to UNC if you don’t go to NCSSM. Literally every kid that applied from my high school was accepted. Although this isn’t normal, I don’t see how their extra effort, adjusting to dorm rooms, being away from parents, taking harder classes, being more academically challenged, or exposing themselves to the rigors of colleges made their journey to college any easier.</p>

<p>If you want to attend UNC or Duke (and aren’t likely to be one of NCSSM’s superstars), it may be a good decision for you to go–assuming, of course, it’s a good place for you in other ways.</p>

<p>I considered attending NCSSM after getting in two years ago, and ultimately decided that my school’s IB magnet program was a better fit all-around. I’m a humanities kid involved in debate and creative writing, and my high school schedule allowed me more time and resources to pursue those interests. I’m also not sure how I would have reacted to the not insubstantial loss of freedom. For me, a senior, I think I made the right choice, though I do wonder sometimes–usually when people are goofing off in a class I’m interested in–what it would’ve been like. </p>

<p>It’s really just a personal decision.</p>

<p>^Oh, definitely. But there’s a difference between goofing off because it’s fun and goofing off daily to distract the teacher from the lesson.</p>

<p>UNCCH is only allowed to send a certain amount of kids from NCSSM acceptance letters. I’ve heard of kids with 5.0’s crying in the hallways because they didn’t get accepted to UNC but got accepted to Brown.</p>

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<p>Since when? When I visited after being accepted, they said whereabouts of 96% of kids were accepted to UNC.</p>