NCSSM or no NCSSM

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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<p>“I never, ever saw anyone get into trouble for academic misconduct such as plagiarism or cheating.”</p>

<p>When my DH taught at the Louisiana School for Math, Science & the Arts (modeled on NCSSM), he did bust a kid for cheating. The kid was expelled right before graduation. Very bright kid, too; it was a shame. The kid was irate: “Everybody does it!” Maybe so, but DH didn’t catch the other kids. He caught this kid – red-handed. I mean, caught him right in the very act. The kid was allowed to graduate from his home high school, so it worked out OK, I guess. He’s probably a CEO somewhere now. :D</p>

<p>The Louisiana School did not have too many problems of that sort, though. No violence that I know of. No guns or knives on campus, as far as I know. Very few discipline problems, at least during our time there. By and large, the kids were there to learn.</p>

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<p>^ LOL, I think I now know How Enron Happened. ;)</p>

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<p>…My perspective goes like this… if you live in an area where there really are NO good public school options then opting out of NCSSM just because you’re afraid of your GPA slipping means that maybe you weren’t strong enough to get into those schools you were dreaming of in the first place… </p>

<p>This statement from Cloying assumes that the responsibility for a slipping GPA falls completely on the NCSSM student. </p>

<p>I disagree. </p>

<p>Most teachers there are not certified nor are they education majors. There appears to be no supervision of what goes on in class, nor any attempt to guage teacher effectiveness. Students will see most of these teachers for 1/3 of a year. Why should teachers invest in or even remember a student they see for only three months? </p>

<p>In 11th and 12th grades, students are still being molded by the teachers and coursework they experience. If you are growing at your sender school, if there is still room for growth at your sender school, stay right where you are. Because of NCSSM’s desire to appear so much better than “normal” high schools, it creates crazy schedules where kids start and end school at different times of the day. Because of this, and the fact that most clubs are student run (and therefore the meeting times are whatever time works best for the Prez-even at night) it’s highly likely you’ll have less opportunity to participate in extra-curriculars at NCSSM. </p>

<p>I’m not sure how much kids continue to grow at NCSSM over the two years they are there. It becomes more survive than thrive. Slipping GPA’s from top, highly motivated kids does not mean they can’t cut it in elite colleges. It means there’s something wrong at NCSSM.</p>

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<p>The school’s most recent projections show that about 75% of NCSSM students who apply get into UNC. Pretty good numbers, but not perfect.</p>

<p>There are a lot of truths and misconceptions about NCSSM on this thread.</p>

<p>LutherSetzer made some great points, but I think that the education there is not all bad. Even though some of the classes are not always taught in the best of ways, I have had excellent experiences in my Humanities and Mathematics courses.</p>

<p>Even as a District Four student, I would say that the opportunities present at NCSSM clearly outclass the opportunities at my old school. </p>

<p>One just has to be diligent, have a love for learning, and actually reach out and grab what is in front of them.</p>

<p>But your fellow classmates definitely make it worth it. A diverse and brilliant student body for me made it for nothing short of a life changing experience.</p>

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<p>That is all true. I am just one of those “major fans” of the school that advocate it in all situations.</p>

<p>I think NCSSM is one of those schools that would require an inordinate amount of planning and drive to succeed straight from the start, but it is definitely a great learning and growing experience. </p>

<p>Regardless of where I go to for college, I know I have a greater understanding of what it takes to succeed because of my two years spent here.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. There are so many, yet so little things that you can do to be successful. I could probably think for a long time and come up with a complete list, but instead, I’ll just list the first few to come off the top of my head:</p>

<ol>
<li>Learn how to teach yourself through textbook reading. </li>
</ol>

<p>A lot of the teachers at Science and Math don’t really do much teaching at all, but expect you to come to class already understanding the material through readings. Even though this is easy for some people, it was very difficult for me.</p>

<ol>
<li>Don’t be afraid/ashamed/too proud to ask questions, and receive help from peers/teachers. (And go to tutorials)</li>
</ol>

<p>I know that many bright people hate looking/feeling stupid, which causes them to not ask for help when they need it. The teachers at NCSSM are generally very willing to help you if you just ask, even if they are intimidating. Teachers also recognize students who care about their grade, and that are actively trying to grasp the topics covered in class. This can often be the difference maker when you are teetering between a C+/B-, or a B+/A- in a class.</p>

<p>Working with classmates is also a great help. It can make large assignments easier to tackle, and it is a great way to have fun while working. It is also a great way to meet/make friends who are very smart, and who care about their future. Everyone has an affinity for a particular subject, and an aversion to other subjects. Often times, geniuses/skilled students in a particular subject can be much better teachers than your actual teachers.</p>

<p>Meet with your teachers regularly, and you will be rewarded.</p>

<ol>
<li>TIME MANAGEMENT</li>
</ol>

<p>This could possibly be the most important one. For very active students who are very ambitious, it is hard to manage your three S’s. (sleep, study, and socialize) And that doesn’t even count extra-curriculars. This is such a vital tool that is often times overlooked. I cannot stress enough how important this is. It is also important to get ahead, because work tends to pile up.</p>

<ol>
<li>Actually do the homework/textbook readings with real intent</li>
</ol>

<p>At Science and Math, and most universities I assume, homework is assigned, but almost never collected. If you do not read the textbook readings, and complete homework assignments to actually grasp the topic at hand, you are bound to fall behind. This seems to be pretty intuitive, but with a lack of discipline, it is easy to be lazy and not do the required work, especially when it adds an extra couple of hours to your daily load.</p>

<p>I would also suggest doing extra textbook problems on your own time in each of your textbooks. (If you can ever find time to)</p>

<ol>
<li>Learn to understand things conceptually</li>
</ol>

<p>This is such a big thing. I would say that I could count on my fingers the number of tests/exams that had multiple choice questions on them. Departments at Science and Math want you to focus on the concepts behind different subjects, rather than simple methodical plug and chug stuff. This is an excellent way to learn, but it is so much harder to grasp.</p>

<p>You can “think” you understand a certain topic, and then on the test, you have to use the topic you learned to extrapolate and make sense of an entirely different topic that you’ve never seen before. It means that you have to get the purpose behind the labs and investigations you do in class, and you have to do more than just memorize the equations that you have to use for the test.</p>

<ol>
<li>Pay attention in class</li>
</ol>

<p>Another obvious one. But when you can use your laptop to take notes, and Facebook is just one click away, it is easy to get distracted and miss something important.</p>

<ol>
<li>Know how to adapt</li>
</ol>

<p>If you are struggling in a class. Find out what you are doing wrong, and improve. Figure out what type of teacher you have. Figure out what kinds of questions they like to ask on tests. Look to the successful people in your classes and on your hall. They often times have great tips.</p>

<p>I could go on forever and ever and ever, but these are definitely the biggest ones. These can apply to any school, but it applies even more for residential schools and colleges, because you live on campus, and teacher accessibility is a lot easier.</p>

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<p>Anytime! I was honestly writing those for myself as much as I was writing it for everyone else.</p>

<p>I did see a drop in my grades after attending Science and Math, but it has helped me to understand how to be successful in college and beyond.</p>

<p>And I still got into college!!! NCSSM isn’t for everyone, but it is definitely an option that should always be strongly considered when think about applying/attending.</p>

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<p>It is not surprising to read that most of Notorious O’s advice on surviving NCSSM dealt with overcoming teaching deficiencies. It’s advice that should be regarded carefully before you choose to attend NCSSM because it’s probably the biggest thing the school does not tell you and the thing that will likely hurt you the most. </p>

<p>N.O. is correct that many of the teachers do not teach the material. However, is testing students on material they have never seen before, or even come close to seeing, really the same thing as teaching them to conceptualize, or is it just an excuse for lazy or ineffective teaching? </p>

<p>To compensate for the lack of classroom learning, students are forced to teach themselves. It’s often a better use of time to not go to class and spend the time teaching yourself the material, but that doesn’t go over very well, I assure you. Other students can be very helpful, but let’s face it–they’re probably struggling with ineffective teachers, too and don’t always have time to help to the degree that is needed. Tutorials are often led by students and sometimes, that student is simply not advanced enough to help.</p>

<p>So it’s back to that same teacher who wasn’t able to communicate the material effectively in the first place. There isn’t enough time management skill in the world to create enough hours in the day to trek across campus looking for someone or something to teach. And the “intimidation” factor N.O. mentioned is real. Who likes being reminded they aren’t getting the material across? </p>

<p>It’s a relief to know that after the state will have spent $54,000 on N.O. and every other NCSSM graduate, they are able to go to college. I’d just like to know how many are forced to give up their first choice of college because of what NCSSM does to their academic record under the guise of conceptualizing.</p>

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<p>I think that some of that is true, but not all of the teachers are bad! I have had two teachers that have written AP exam questions for Statistics, that have totally fostered my love for math and have helped me realize the vocation that I want to pursue.</p>

<p>Also, many people still do get into top schools. In the past two weeks, I have had two friends that have gotten into Vanderbilt and Emory respectively, and I know that there will be even more good news in the coming months. NCSSM also projects that 55% of its students that apply to Duke get in. Not bad numbers at all.</p>

<p>I can say for a fact that if I stayed at my old school, I would not have challenged myself nearly as much as I did here. And if I don’t end up getting accepted to some of the higher ranked schools that I applied to, I will undoubtedly be sad. But I know that if I stayed at my old school and graduated with a higher GPA, (which may not have even happened) I definitely would not have been ready to go to those tougher schools, and I would surely would have seen a slight drop in my grades in college.</p>

<p>Granted, I am definitely a pretty hardcore Pro-NCSSM person. Yes, some of the teaching may not be the best, but I think that some responsibility has to be placed on the student. It took me awhile to reach my full potential as well. </p>

<p>As for whether conceptual tests are a guise or not, I would also say it is not entirely true. I think that NCSSM, like every other academic institution is not perfect. And I am sure that these same problems occur in college too. It may just be the struggle of teaching/trying to teach at the collegiate level. I have heard similar hardships from my friends from my old school in college.</p>

<p>NCSSM has posted a statistics sheet that has shown the acceptance rates of all of the colleges that students have applied to over the last couple of years.</p>

<p>If I can find the online document, I’ll link it on this page.</p>

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<p>But why are there so many bad teachers and why does a student have to rely on luck (or become highly skilled) to navigate the school? </p>

<p>N.O, you sound very fortunate to have had your love of math fostered when so many students, as I’m sure you know, have had their love of math destroyed. The student who led our tour told us he had planned to study Aeronautics, but after attending NCSSM decided acting would be a better pursuit. </p>

<p>NCSSM has skimmed the best students in N.C. from some of the best high schools. It’s not unexpected that some percentage of them would be accepted into Duke/UNC/an elite college. These are amazing kids NCSSM recruits. They don’t just lay down and die because of the deficiencies in the school. Like you, it takes them a while to understand what has been done to them: </p>

<p>(Leonard: What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?
Sheldon: Screwed.
Leonard: There you go)</p>

<p>But then most of them do fight back, maybe not ever achieving their full academic potential, but achieving their highest potential possible under such adverse conditions. </p>

<p>N.O., I wish you the best possible luck as you wait to hear from your prospective colleges. Only the people who’ve experienced NCSSM can really understand what you’ve accomplished. </p>

<p>However, I cannot accept NCSSM’s weaknesses being written off as “Nobody’s perfect.” NCSSM should be. They are telling the entire state: “Let us take our brightest kids and polish them. Entrust us with their intellect and their academic growth. We can give them something no other school can.” And they’re charging the state 19 million dollars to do it. </p>

<p>There’s a responsibility that comes with that. Right now, the school, as a whole, is not up to the task.</p>

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<p>You guys definitely bring up some good points. I am actually a Residential Assistant at school and I had to help counsel a student who was upset because he was previously very successful in his Chemistry classes with an experienced teacher, but is now struggling with a new inexperienced teacher.</p>

<p>And I know that for me personally, the exact opposite happened to me with the Science department. I feel like my teachers totally turned me off to the subject as a whole.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if the school does this or not, but they should definitely focus on getting the best teachers possible, instead of just getting anyone with a Ph.D. (It proves that they are brilliant, but does it prove that they are great teachers?)</p>

<p>It seems like the best teachers are the ones that have been there for over 10-20 years.</p>

<p>I think that the school has made some great strides in its near 30 years, and I think that NCSSM willcontinue to improve, especially if these types of problems are brought to the attention of the school.</p>

<p>And thanks a lot shanidar, for your kind words.</p>