<p>So I got into both ND and IU EA. I got direct admit into Kelley at IU and plan on going into Mendoza at ND. I've always wanted to go to ND and it is my first choice. However, I received a full ride to IU. With financial aid, ND will cost about $30,000 this year. Would it be worth it paying that kind of money when I can still go to a pretty good business school for free? Please help!</p>
<p>Did you know that an undergraduate business program is the only one where graduates actually end up doing worse on college assessment tests than they did when entering? If you want to shell out cash to major in something that will literally make you dumber in addition to providing you no real skills or credibility for anything in particular than feel free to study business!*</p>
<p>Unless your degree is stamped ‘Wharton’ or ‘Sloan’ (MIT), an undergraduate diploma in business isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Why do you think most Ivies don’t even have undergrad business programs, yet it’s their graduates (in other fields) who go on to the really big jobs at financial firms in NYC? So go to either! It doesn’t matter. I guess ND will have better alumni clubs, which you’ll need when you stand in line for unemployment after you graduate.</p>
<p>I know there’s going to be 20 posts after this refuting me with worthless anecdotal stories about their success as business undergrad, but I don’t care. I’ll probably be called a snob/elitist/jerk/etc. by all sorts of internet tough guys, but I’m honestly doing you a favor. The dumbest people in college I knew at ND and anywhere else I went were always undergrad business students. I guess you’ll learn how to cheat off your friend’s excel files when you grind through your homework. Major in economics, at least that’s a real field. </p>
<p>*I’m not talking about MBAs here, which do actually mean something. Undergraduate business schools have no place at universities, except as something you transfer into after failing out of an engineering program.</p>
<p>Hey Konzer, shouldn’t you be working on your PhD?</p>
<p>In response to Konzer:</p>
<p>At IU, (s)he was directly admitted to an MBA program, and at Notre Dame, (s)he would have one of the strongest alumni networks in the country, and could really work that to his/her advantage… and even if ND’s (#1 ranked) undergraduate business program was half as worthless as you said, (s)he has at least a year to even declare a major, and could switch if (s)he thought at all that (s)he wasn’t happy with it.</p>
<p>@miguelito
It is definitely a hard choice… a direct admission to one of the best MBA programs is hard to turn down, especially if it is cheaper.</p>
<p>At Notre Dame, though, you have a year to decide if you really, really want to be in business, but if you do decide to stick with it, and do well in school, stay active, etc., then you should be able to get into many great MBA programs, some of which are, arguably, much better than Kelly.</p>
<p>How much of the 30K would be loans? I think that may have a large impact on your decision…</p>
<p>If possible, visit Notre Dame (or have you already?) You will know immediately if you were meant to be there, and especially if it is worth the price tag.</p>
<p>Personally, I am turning down full rides to IU and Purdue, and a much better offer from Vanderbilt, to attend Notre Dame (~23K/year before loans) in Physics, a degree notorious for being 100% standardized from school to school. I thought the experience and the opportunity to be a part of the family that is Notre Dame was worth it… It may or may not be for you.</p>
<p>Don’t know if I helped at all, but I can try to answer any questions…</p>
<p>@swimtiger
I’ve been to Notre Dame quite a few times. I’m from the Chicago area so I’ve been there for football games and stuff. Anyways I’ve always loved it there and it’s always been a dream of mine to go to Notre Dame. With my financial aid I’ll be paying $34k before loans which is definitely affordable for my family and I. I am still waiting to hear from the Chicago Alumni Club if I will be receiving any type of supplemental scholarship so that could help a lot.</p>
<p>I still like IU though and with the scholarship I received, I can get an MBA in 5 years and pretty much only have to pay for one year of graduate school. With Notre Dame, I have the great alumni network. This is tough decision for me because I was about to decide to go to Notre Dame, but then I found out that I was receiving a full ride to IU. The thing is I don’t know if it would be worth it to pay that much money for Notre Dame, even though it is affordable after financial aid, when I can get my undergraduate degree for free, and only have to pay for one year while getting my MBA.</p>
<p>OP does not specify that s/he was admitted to an MBA program, only to the the business school. There are advantages to other B schools over Mendoza even tho it is highly respected. Mendoza has no coordinated undergraduate/graduate programs where you are admitted to both if you qualify, no internship programs that offer credit, etc. You are hired from grad school, but getting into a highly respected grad program is dependent on your undergrad program and your success there. You cannot completely separate the two.</p>
<p>@NDgradNDdad: I don’t have any shame in being a year away from a PhD in chemical engineering. Is there something wrong with accomplishing that? Should I have majored in marketing or ‘business administration’ instead? Oh no, why did I throw my life away on an engineering degree?! Why did I take a comfortable stipend and free tuition/health care for five years when I could have been unemployed?! IT WAS A MISTAKE, TEACH ME HOW TO TAKE AVERAGES IN EXCEL PLEASE!</p>
<p>And I am working this weekend, unlike lazy business majors. Mammalian cells don’t freeze themselves.</p>
<p>Good article: <a href=“The Default Major: Skating Through B-School - The New York Times”>The Default Major: Skating Through B-School - The New York Times;
<p>Unfortunately in today’s economy/world, most students who attend expensive, prestigious schools need to go out and make a living to help pay for that expensive education. Those who study philosophy, psychology, religion, etc. may have greatly honed their thinking skills, but will have a difficult time landing a job interview in today’s market. Are the law students who just spent three additional years honing their intellectual skills not even better thinkers than those with a four year undergrad degree? If you need someone just for their intelligence, you can probably find an unemployed lawyer to fill your opening and you get the bonus of a JD degree at the same time.</p>
<p>Are there weak, bad programs out there in every single discipline? You bet. Will those students struggle to find jobs regardless of their degree? Yes.</p>
<p>When I looked at the new U.S. News rankings a few weeks ago, Notre Dame’s undergraduate business program was ranked number one for the third year in a row, above Wharton and Sloan once again. The Kelly school at IU was not far behind either.</p>
<p>The big banks and big four accounting firms come to these top tier schools and hire undergrad business majors because they have the knowledge and skill set that business is looking for. If venture capital firms want to hire chemical engineering majors for their analytical skills, they will and do.</p>
<p>Large employers are smart and will gravitate to the schools where they have the most success with hires. In a free market, students will matriculate to those institutions, hoping to be hired by these employers.</p>
<p>Personally, I would hire those individuals with the ability to think 100% of the time. Unfortunately, if they do not have the rudimentary business skills necessay to compete, I cannot afford to train them in those skills like a large, international employer can.</p>
<p>Hence, for 90%+ of the students, knowledge for the sake of knowledge in the hopes of being a philosopher king is just not financially feasible.</p>
<p>I concede, ND Mendozza is better than I thought. Go there OP.</p>
<p>But I’m not worried about my ability to find employment. I think you guys want so badly for me to have been a liberal arts major, because it’d fit your narrative so much better. Sorry. Plenty of my friends with PhDs in chemical engineering work at firms like McKinsey or BCG, not to mention traditional companies like Dow or Shell. Six figure starting salaries are common. It’s not like companies don’t hire us. What would make anyone think otherwise?</p>