<p>My child was a fairly bright student in high school, and had a very high high school GPA and excellent standardized test scores. However, after attending an elite university, his GPA in the university is actually sub par, to the point that it would be very difficult to transfer out to state universities with the GPA he has earned in college. I feel that he would succeed much more if he transferred to another, less competitive university, but almost all of the universities I have looked at ignore your pre-university accomplishments (as he already earned more than 30 semester credits). Is there any way I can convince a university's admission board to look at his high school achievements instead of solely focusing on his university career (his university is well known for significantly deflating grades)?</p>
<p>While I think its unusual, you won't know unless you try. I think the more significant things to consider are, why does he want to transfer out of his current college? Is he on academic probation? What does he want to do? Asking them to consider his high school record would have to come from HIM to really mean something to them, not you. What makes you think he will not perform the same in the future school that he may eventually transfer to? I am not being critical just honest and realistic. Perhaps he would want to include the reasons for his low gpa in college, and refer back to his successful high school career and hopefully good SAT scores to show what he is capable of. I think the real issue is addressing why he did so poorly at his first college.</p>
<p>D97, sorry about the predicament your son finds himself in. However you and him really need to determine the reasons behind his sub-par performance. Highly selective universities only admit student they are reasonable certain will be academically successful. Your son may be an unfortunate exception but it is more likely that there is some other reason behind it all.</p>
<p>Certainly he can call a few colleges' admission offices to see if they will consider his hs record as well as his college performance. However he should be prepared to explain why his college performance was disappointing and I do not thing merely telling them that the academics were harder than expected will do the trick.</p>
<p>ctmomof3, thanks. There are three reasons that I asked him to transfer out of his college: the first, he has tried hard but could not improve his GPA and he may have a hard time to find a good job with such a poor GPA; the second, all his high school classmates who went to state universities are doing much better although they did not perform as well as he did in high school; the third, he has studied so hard that he has almost no social life in college and his high school classmates are enjoying in state universities. I think, the academic atmosphere in his university is just too competitive for him.</p>
<p>How low is the GPA? If the college is known for sereious grade deflation, this may not be a problem. Is the current college a financial drain for you? Is he planning on grad school in the future?</p>
<p>The fact that he is studying hard and still doing poorly sounds unusual, particularly if he was a strong student in high school. </p>
<p>What is his major? Maybe he is just taking the wrong classes for the way his brain works. Since the general classes are out of the way, he should have more options as an upperclassman to specialize in areas where he can do better. </p>
<p>Some jobs want to see a GPA on a resume, but I don't think that is universal. Others just check the box that you have a degree.</p>
<p>Dakota97,
As a parent of a son with similar stats who transfered, I have to ask you. Does HE want to transfer? It should not be something that you want and he doesn't.
Many colleges that I know of DO require students to submit their HS transcripts and SAT scores for transfer consideration. Was he accepted at any less rigorous colleges as a freshman? He may have a better chance of reacceptance at those colleges.
If [for instance] he is going to the U of Chicago, which is known for it's grade deflation, it may not be as much of an issue as far as your son's future plans as you fear.</p>
<p>menloparkmom,
Do you remember which colleges require students who have already earned more than 30 semester credits to submit their HS transcripts and SAT scores for transfer consideration?
Today my son told me that he would like to try for another semester and agreed to transfer out of his current university if he still can not improve after the coming semester.
Just a coincidence, my son chose his current university over U of Chicago (he applied three universities and did not complete the interview process for the HPME program of the third university)</p>
<p>Just be true to both you and him and first establish that as I said above this is what HE wants. If it is, then he is lucky to have you on his side and to care so much. It should indeed be a well rounded experience, including studying hard, making new friends and being able to partake in new experiences. If he is not doing so, then you are right to suggest this may not be the right school for him.
I would suggest that he possibly email some admissions officers to see what their particular policy is on considering and looking back at his high school records. I would guess that some are more open to others. Saying a school is not a good fit is not only common, but widely accepted as being a more than adequate reason to change schools. Seeing he was accepted into a highly esteemed university will bode well for him, as they will see that another possibly higher ranked institution believed in his abilities. He should express all of this in a genuine and honest letter to the admissions committee when he submits his applications. That is my suggestions, I wish you both much luck.</p>
<p>Okay, those of us with a lot of transfer experience (some of whom have already chimed in) need more information, I think, to really give relevant advice/opinions/experience.</p>
<p>Questions (some of which have already been asked):
1. How low is the GPA? If you don't want to be specific, we still need some idea: is it under 3.0? is it at the academic probation level?
2. What is his major? Does he like it and want to continue with it?
3. What does he think the reasons are for the sub-par GPA? What does he think he can do to improve it?
4. He has 30+ semester credits. So, I'm wondering what standing he currently has and would be applying for if he transferred. That # of credits confuses me a little. I'm thinking that a kid who just completed sophomore fall term would have ~45 credits and one who just completed freshman fall term would have ~15-credits. But maybe he has AP credits, etc. or is on a different schedule. This all matters because whether and how much schools will look at his hs record depend upon his current standing.
5. Does the low GPA include any F's? In his major (or closely related fields) or not?
6. Would he be able to get good college recs?
7. What caliber of school (degree of selectivity) would he want to consider for transfer? For some of the less selective publics, most of these questions will be immaterial as he might be effectively able to "walk on." (IE, they accept such a high percentage of applicants). For others, we really need to know more before we can advise/suggest.</p>
<p>As others have indicated, <em>his</em> wanting to transfer is what is critical. If he wants to stay and believes he can improve his GPA, maybe your focus could be more on helping him with support/strategies to achieve that.</p>
<p>Also, I'd like to mention that it's possible he can improve the GPA. My son's case might not be parallel, but might. He was also a very strong hs student. He did very very well in his freshman year but then had to transfer due to Katrina. He is in a very very tough school in a tough curriculum (Engineering). His first two terms, he struggled - for the first time ever - in at least one class per term. His GPA was sub-par (for him), but still above 3.0. He thought of transferring, but decided to stick it out. He (and we) worried that he might struggle the whole way through. He was willing, but obviously that would not be fun. Now, in his third term at the tough school, his GPA is back on par - all A's and B+. So, it can be done. Hope this is a bit encouraging.</p>
<p>Finally, depending on his school and field (and how low the GPA is), he might be better off with the degree from that school on his resume when it comes to the job hunt than with a "lesser" school and a higher GPA. As I've said, so much depends on the field, the school, the GPA.</p>
<p>In addition to the above questions^-Is he a Sophomore or a Jr? Has he taken 30 semester credits or do they include AP credit from HS?</p>
<p>jmmom, Here are answers to your questions:
1. His GPA is below 2.5.
2. He wants to continue with his major in engineering.
3. He thinks his school is very competitive and I think it is too competitive for him. A daughter of my friend went to MIT and did not even apply for his school because she considered the competition in his school is "cut-throat".
4. To be exact, he has earned 46 credits in three semesters. I used "30 credits" is because almost all the colleges I have searched use 30 credits as a cut-off which means you don't submit hs records and test scores once you have earned 30 credits.
5. He has an F.
6. He gets good recommendations from hs teachers.
7. If he can not improve in this coming semester, I would like him to transfer to a college that allows him to continue with his major in engineering. Less selective publics is fine.
Honestly, I would like him to succeed in his current university. I would be very glad if he graduates with a GPA above 3.0, but I am losing confidence on him.</p>
<p>Engineering is tough, and many students don't "cut it" after a while. It is very similar to pre-med in that way, where OChem becomes the filter of who really has what it takes to be a DR or not. Perhaps he should consider changing his major? Many college students do, after they discover the reality of how hard some majors can be. My son's good friend has changed his major from Engineering to Geophysics for that very reason. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Engineering isn't for everybody. People have different strengths and weaknesses. From what you say, he sounds like a bright kid who is having trouble adjusting to college. If he really wants to continue on with engineering, I'd advise that he get tutors for the subjects that he is having trouble with and really work on figuring out 'what the problem is'. Elite schools are very cautious about who they choose to admit. If they don't think that a person is capable of doing the work, the college will not take that person. Even though this has been going on for three semesters, I would advise that he should try to figure out what he's doing wrong (too much partying? not enough studying? not asking enough questions?) and fix it, that is if he really wants to be an engineer. Good luck with everything!</p>
<p>Actually, engineering may not be for him NOW. I know a number of folks (DH included) who had a hard time with the courses right out of high school but who went back to school later (in their late 20's) and are now successful engineers. </p>
<p>I will venture to say...transfering into another engineering program without decent grades in the engineering courses could be very difficult. Many schools require students who want to be in the engineering programs to apply TO BECOME engineering majors...and they don't accept everyone.</p>
<p>Another thing..most competitive schools have excellent study skills centers where one can get a tutor in most any subject. BUT the student has to go and initiate this. Has your son gotten a tutor for difficult courses? DD has done so (she is also an engineering major) and says that the help is there...she doesn't understand why more students don't seek it.</p>
<p>What are your son's strengths? There are a lot of fields in which math and science interests prevail that are not engineering. Perhaps he should talk to his advisor and get some hints on what his options are. He probably should have those anyway as he may decide to switch majors at some point...lots of students do.</p>
<p>It depends on a school but if the school is harder than MIT than most people are not cut out for that kind of engineering either. I'm guessing the location of this school is in California.</p>
<p>Question: Is the problem engineering concept OR math skills holding him back? A good buddy of mine was a dual program major and eventually bailed on engineering as his math skills held him down. He wasn't advanced on arrival to matriculate.....good at stats but not higher level maths. It was a hard pill to swallow.</p>
<p>We know kids who started out in engineering but ended up majoring in statistics, urban planning, biology, political science and history. And a music major... but MIT is filled with music majors (or double music/math or music/physics. Teachers like to encourage kids who are good in math to do engineering, when sometimes kids who are good in math just love more math.)</p>
<p>There are many fields where the exceptional quantitative and analytical skills which got him to where he is will be prized and help him excel. Since I don't know the particulars of what (besides engineering) might appeal to him I can't be more helpful, but if it were my kid I'd make the following three suggestions to my kid--</p>
<p>1-- if you love what you're doing, don't want to change majors or colleges, then great, I'm behind you 100%. Go talk to someone in the Dean's office to get yourself some tutoring or a diagnostic by the study skills center-- college should be about more than studying all the time.</p>
<p>2- If you don't love what you're doing, get yourself to the same Dean's office to review your options-- a semester off, change of major, etc. Nothing they haven't seen before.</p>
<p>3-- If you don't love what you're doing and have already figured out what you'd like to change, then don't hold back out of fear of disappointing your family (very common in these situations....). We want you to be successful (which doesn't mean all A's but does mean feeling a sense of satisfaction with what you are learning, how you're doing, the academic experience overall) and if the current environment or major or course choice hasn't gotten you there, we want to partner with you in figuring out your next course of action.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be out there egging him on to transfer-- if he likes the school he may have already figured out which department or discipline will be more to his liking.</p>
<p>And ironically, the statistics major we know who switched out of engineering is now managing a group of electrical engineers at a top tech company...</p>
<p>Dakota, This is a tough road for parents and student, I realize.</p>
<p>Couple of points: hs recs will not be considered in any transfer app I am aware of. There are some schools where recs are not required, but those schools are often "all about the numbers," so the GPA would be an issue at those. Again, unless we are talking about schools with fairly open admissions accepting a high % of applicants, he is going to need college recs or a GPA/test scores which get him admitted on the numbers alone. </p>
<p>It seems that your S wants to stay where he is, wants to stay in Engineering and thinks he can improve the GPA. I'm wondering if he is not as worried about his GPA as you are? Either because he believes he can bring it up, or because he just doesn't care as much about the 3.0.</p>
<p>I certainly understand why you are worrying about that, as the 3.0 seems like a kind of break point where his employment prospects will be better. (I know that many feel that break point is 3.5; but some of us (and our kids) have to leave that hope behind when at an extremely competitive school. My S is at a "cutthroat" reputation school as well.</p>
<p>I just don't think it's appropriate for any of us parents to divert your son from his desired major of Engineering if HE still wants it. And, we haven't pinpointed what the likely causes of the low GPA are. Not "getting" Engineering/hard science/math type material is an entirely different issue from poor time management, distraction of the fun fringe benefits of college life, etc. </p>
<p>So, again, more info needed re why he wants to stay, how he thinks he can work to improve his situation and what he thinks is the cause of the problem. </p>
<p>It got easier for my S in his junior year at a "cutthroat" school (and I don't mean that disparagingly as the students are not out to get each other, but the academic intensity-level is high) - maybe because he had more choice in which courses to take and was finished with the "weeders", maybe because he knew better what to expect. His case did not involve partying etc. crowding out studying and he did avail himself of several resources when he had difficulties (study partner, prof office hours, seeking alternate text books on his own). Has your son done those types of things? Or will he in the coming terms?</p>
<p>If he is going to transfer, most schools have transfer app deadlines some time in March, so he would need to work on those. It might be sensible for him to put in some transfer apps so that he has options if things don't get better for him this term.</p>
<p>However, I personally am reluctant to recommend that since he doesn't seem to want to transfer and we don't know what the underlying issues are. He's at a tough school, that we know, but is he doing his own best work there - or has he not really applied himself to date?</p>
<p>To directly answer your root question, which I don't think any of us have hit directly... I do not think there is a way to convince an admissions office to weigh his hs achievements more than his college work. I do think many of them will look at the hs record. And they will take into account the competitiveness of his current school.</p>
<p>If you give us an idea of the "cohort" of school he is at (say, JHU/Carnegie Mellon/.... or Harvey Mudd/CalTech or some such grouping of 4-6 schools) and of the type of schools you/he are considering for transfer.... we might have an idea of how a 2.x at his current school would be looked at by the possible transfer schools.</p>