Parent question--transfer help needed!

Applying to College
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I apologize for double-posting. I preferred to post on the Parent Forum, but I couldn’t get into it, and I was afraid the question might have been missed in the transfer section.

My child is attending one of the top schools in the country and has had a very hard time succeeding after a stellar high school career (in a smaller, rural school). He has been asked to leave, and we don’t think his appeal will be accepted. Does anyone have any suggestions, either for the appeal or tranferring? We’re thinking no one will accept him now with his very low GPA.

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<p>Sometimes, a college will permit re entry after a semester or a year at another school (and often it is ANY other school) with a certain average. Find out if this is an option available to him. This happened to a number of my classmates, and many found their way back to the college. Then have him go to a local school with open or minimal requirements and take general courses or retake some of the courses he failed or did poorly. </p>

<p>There are a number of schools in any area that will take kids on an open basis who are not degree candidates. Once they do a year or a semester on that basis, they can apply to be degree candidates. I know in Pittsburgh, Pitt was such a school. Also school are very generous about who they take ofor summer programs, and it might behoove your son to take a semester break and work, do community service, anything other than academics, then spend the summer at such a college and continue during the school year. I knew one young man who left an ivy league college and spent a year at a community college before transferring to University of Texas where he is now on track. His problem was that he was an engineering major and could not handle that load. Upon switching to a psychology major, he is now golden. That is the other thing I suggest that your son does, is to switch to a different field of study where the work might be a better fit for him. THat also may make a difference in the appeals process. These schools often see kids fail at certain majors, but excell at others. If your son can do well in a whole different field that is still offered at his current school, they may take him back as colleges tend to hate to have kids leave and not return as it hurts their graduation stats.</p>

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<p>You have given me several good ideas, and I thank you. He has spent too long, in my opinion, trying to slug it out at this school, and I'm not sure that going back is a reasonable option, but it's certainly something to consider asking for. </p>

<p>I do think taking a break may be a good idea, and possibly changing majors as well. He says he's studying hard, and just can't master this stuff. Unfortunately, he still really loves the place and the wonderful people there. I'm certain that he has too many credits for community college, but there may be a state school that would take him temporarily.</p>

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<p>What has he been studying, and what specifically is his problem at this school? Is the problem that his math/science base is too weak for the courses he is taking, or has he not had intensive composition training in high school and therefore cannot write a college paper that is up to top school standards? Or is it a general lack of study skills? To get into a top school, he has to have the basic gray cells to succeed and if he is not fooling around and is truly just over his head, he needs to have the academic weaknesses addressed and I don't think a just any college will be able to do that, particularly many comm colleges and many of the state schools. He will need some personal attention from a very good school with small classes that will focus on what the issues are. He may need some intensive tutoring. I tutor for the college boards with SAT2 writing my specialty, and I find that a lot of kids I get cannot really even write an acceptable essay even though they are "A" students at school. I don't think that the teachers are reading and correcting their papers. Some of those kids, I have to tell the parents that intensive work on writing skills is essential before they even think about SAT2 Writing, and that these kids will get killed in a school where the emphasis is on strong writing skills. I have also seen kids taking "Calculus" in schools when their math base is very weak. They have no memory of the geometry and their algebra stinks. What they are doing in "Calculus" is beyond me. They end up in college and again get killed in the math. </p>

<p>In fact, it may well be worth it for you all to sit and talk to the profs at the schools in some of the essential subject and the college academic dean to get some ideas on how to backtrack and get some basic skills that will help him succeed at the level where his intelligence puts him. It wiil be a painful meeting, but in the long run, he will benefit, and you will get a more precise idea where the problems are. Just putting into a non selective school that will give him more of what he got in highschool is really not giving him an education beyond what he already has. If he want to go beyond, then it is worth finding out what it takes.</p>

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<p>You sound like you really know what you're talking about, so if you don't mind, I'll talk scores. His major problem is math. He self-studied enough to do really well on his SAT IIs, even acing physics, and scoring 780 on the Math IIC but his depth may not have been great enough to master the classes he's been taking. This is a technical school, and mastering the math is essential to every major. He writes pretty well, and made a 740 on the SAT II writing (since you tutor that subject). His SAT I Math score was not as high as one would expect from his IIs, while he aced the Verbal. I've always felt that there was something wrong math-wise, but that has been pooh-poohed because he was such a high achiever. (Math has always been a means to an end for him--a "tool, not a toy" in his parlance.) The problem is that math isn't my forte or his dad's, and we don't know where to go for help.</p>

<p>The intensive tutoring sounds like a good idea. He's had "tutoring" at his school, but it never seemed to help. He's not good at networking and seeking out study groups, but he always had a close relationship with teachers at home, which is not happening at this school. His study habits are likely part of the problem, as he never had to study much in high school (at least on class work). We're quite certain that drugs, alcohol, and girls are not a problem, although computer games are a temptation for him. I'm thinking of talking with a nearby LAC with a reputation for close involvement with students and asking if they'll take him, at least on a trial basis.</p>

<p>I think his confidence is shot. He seems to have lost his love for science, and it really hurts to see that. I really appreciate your thoughts on this--any others, now that you have more information, would be very welcome. Anyone else with ideas, please chime in!</p>

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<p>Jamimom is the expert at this, but the LAC sounds like a plan for the fall. He might even consider some non-credit math remediation at a CC prior to the LAC, just start back with trig/algebra and work his way back up to calculus. Unless he is set on physics or engineering, he can pursue some science careers without the highest level of math. As he self-studied a 780 in MathIIC, I faked my way to As in Calculus I and II, then totally hit a wall, because I had memorized and practiced the math, but never really understood it in a way necessary for engineering. But, hey, you can go to med school with that level of math.</p>

<p>Also I would suggest some career counseling and testing of his strengths, acing the verbal, and studying up for IIC, suggests to me his math difficulties may be similar to what I'm describing - and a change of major may make a big difference.</p>

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<p>I may get in touch with you personally. I am a failed math major. 30 some years ago at a top school where I got a full math scholarship--lost it, and struggled to get through college. So I know exactly where your son is. I was an excellent intuitive mathematician and ended up with as a Quantitive Areas major with an application in philosphy. I would have majored in it but I was already way over my head in college expenses, and I would have needed another year to get the relevant courses, so I just patched things up the best I could. I, too, had a perfect verbal SAT and a very high math one. No flags on my past record that I would not have done well in math, but I truly faked my way through Algebra 2, memorized the necessary trig, and had a lousy piecemeal calculus class that was all problem based, with absolutely no theory. When I went to college, I had my head handed to me. In time, I did learn the theory, and it was actually my forte--I just did not know the stuff inside out as did the other kids in my classes at the time. </p>

<p>As Cangel says, there are many venues available to him with the math he has. I really do not recommend physics or engineering to him unless he truly loves the math and wants to work very, very hard at it. He will be competing with kids who are truly wired for math and would live it all day long. If he wants a life outside of this, he needs to find some compromise point. An example, I ended up in the actuarial field which is very mathematical, but is more limited than some of the programs in the tech field. At age 50 something, I can see that though I am very strong in math, and my husband who is thoroughly grounded in math, our abilities pale next to our 14 year old son who is truly "wired" for math. The amount of work necessary for me to reach the point he gets within minutes is very humbling to me. I had to come to the realization many years ago that I was not willing to do the work necessary to get to the point I wanted in certain fields which included math theory, engineering, statistics, and later law, even though I was accepted and came very close to going to a top law school. It is all part of getting to know oneself and realizing that you have to live with yourself and your job, and you cannot pound salt unless you truly love the subject or you will have a miserable life. I am not a resounding success story; I have my regrets, but I can tell you that I am not one bit sorry that I am not working my tail off in any of those fields. But I did go through some years where I was really ashamed of my failures, and felt stupid indeed. I have my husband to thank for keeping my self esteem from hitting rock bottom in those years, as he always thought the world of me and my abilities even as I was failing miserably in some things. But I can still feel that pain when I think about it, so I know what your son is going through. I also want you to know that he is not alone. Take a look at a number of tech schools and you will see a low graduation rate. I did not go to such a school, and it was particularly hurtful that I was in a very small minority that was failing. </p>

<p>I don't know what schools are in your area, but a nurturing LAC sounds like a good start, certainly not a cc or other type of school that will not give him some attention. </p>

<p>A friend of the family sent their son to an ivy a few years ago as an engineering major, and he failed out the first year. He was sent to a TX community college to bring up his grades and then transferred to a UT, but I am not sure if that was necessarily the right route for him either. He is currently a business major at one of the UTs, but I think he is just getting through college. Your son seems to have a damaged psyche at this time, and some sort of healing process is probably in order. THis sort of thing happens all of the time, and your son is very fortunate that you are so in tune with what is happening. Usually the parents are angry at the student, call him a slacker, and play the tough love game. Sometimes that is the right track, when the kid is out playing, drinking, cutting class, etc but if that is not the case, some understanding is needed. Do let him know that he is not alone, and really a mismatch in subject matter and background in one of the most unforgiving fields. Do look at the programs at the college where he is to see if some other field of study is more palatable. I worked with a student who was failing out of Carnegie Mellon U as a chemical engineering major, who liked chemistry and the idea of engineering but the intro Chem-E and math course wiped him out. A change to the technical writing major made him one happy camper and he is excelling in this excellent field that uses his knowledge of science and engineering but not to the technical degree that the major would require, and his job prospects are quite good. But I know the CMU course catalogue like the back of my hand (at least I once did) and can advise kids in that school, but with other schools, you need someone who knows the courses and implications of taking a major that has those courses.</p>

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<p>It's so wonderful to hear that someone understands. We've not known what course to take with him, and I would welcome your contacting me. Thanks.</p>