Need Advice.. Experience with Admissions Prep !?!?!?

Parents Forum
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Hi Everyone,

I’m a fairly new member on here but long time lurker. My son is going to be applying to combined BA+BS/MD programs this cycle and I’m facing a dilemma. As some background, we’ve always paid for private tutoring so please don’t use this thread to dissuade me from just doing things on my own. My background is not medicine and I’d rather not muck around with his application given that it is such a competitive process.

He’s most interested in the UMKC, Brown and Northwestern programs and from what I’ve read, those are some of the toughest programs to gain acceptance into. His grades are excellent and put him around the top 5% of his class.

I am looking into signing him up for Admissions prep. There are so many options out there but based on my own research, I’ve narrowed it down to the following.

  1. APE Advisor Prep
  2. College Admissions Partners
  3. Med Edits
  4. MD Admit

I am mostly leaning towards 1 (or 2) but open to hearing thoughts and advice from other parents on any other options I may have missed.

I’m leaning towards APE because it seems they have the most experience with the three programs my son is most interested in and the reviews I’ve found so far for them have been only positive. They claim to have worked with 40% of the most recent UMKC BA/MD out of state applicants and over 20% of Brown PLME applicants successfully. I understand that these claims are almost impossible to validate but assuming they are true, I think this is very significant. Alexa analytics data also suggests that APE is significantly more reputable than any of the other companies on my list (<50,000 in the US for APE vs >500,000 for the others).

The downside to APE is that you have to pay a $1,000 application fee (no chump change) in order to even apply for their Director program and they claim to reject more than 50% of the people who apply. Overall, they are significantly more expensive than the other 3 companies @ ~$7,000 for 1 program !!! However, having gone through many tutors to find a good one for my kids, I understand this is an area where you often get what you pay for.

Have any parents on CC personally used any of these companies for their kids? Is there another company you’d recommend instead of these 4?

Feel free to PM me if you’re not comfortable sharing on here. Thanks a bunch!

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You can spend a lot more than that on this type of advising. If you are prepared to pay, you might as well go for it. Before forming out that kind of cash I would ask for referral contacts. If they balk, look elsewhere.

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I’m going to go outside the lines a bit and ask if your son, at 17 or whatever, is really sure he wants to be a doctor and if he has mature reasons for doing so. For reasons related to his age, and the changeability of most kids, I would go for the advising service that has the most general expertise, rather than one targeted toward premed programs.

Your son can major in anything at all and go to med school. Music majors have a high admit rate. Some med schools are actively seeking humanities majors. That said, maybe he loves science. Physicians assistants and nurses also do really well. There are many things to consider.

Has he had experiences that would lead him toward this long term goal? Volunteering, personal, TV? IS he an EMT? Are relatives doctors?

I just tend to think that this kind of narrow focus can sometimes be premature. Maybe he’ll take Russian, spend a year in Moscow, and work in diplomacy like one kid I know who thought he wanted to be a doctor. Maybe he’ll take art history and then get a degree in museum studies. Maybe he’ll take biology class and end up doing marine biology.

Sorry, this is not what you asked.

My friends keep telling me to go into private college counseling but I don’t really understand why people hire counselors, apart from preserving the parent/child relationship for some :slight_smile: Information is so easily accessed these days. There are standardized tests, visits, interviews, applications and essays. At this stage, that’s about it. (And everyone here on CC does it for free.)

The conventional wisdom for those who ultimately want to go to med school is to go to a school where your GPA will be higher relatively speaking, so that does not always mean the highest prestige school is the way to go. That said, there certainly are quite a few Harvard grads going to med school.

Find previous clients to chat with, as someone else said. That seems the best way to go. Maybe someone on here has used them but most of us used CC!!

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This happens to be on another thread: Stephen Colbert at a graduation

Comedian and TV host Stephen Colbert offered wiser counsel during a graduation speech at his alma mater, Northwestern University, a few years ago. Recalling that he once aspired to perform Shakespeare in the street while living in a barren loft apartment, he said he has no regrets that things turned out differently.

“If we’d all stuck with our first dream,” noted Colbert, “the world would be overrun with cowboys and princesses.”

Second or third dreams — the ones that college freshmen bring to campus — are seldom much better. In some cases, this is obvious to most everyone except the dreamer: the pre-med student who wants to cure cancer but falls asleep in his biochem class; the aspiring diva who ignores her C in music (as well as her A in physics).

But even when an 18- or 22-year-old’s passion for a particular vocation is grounded in impressive achievements and serious reflection, it’s like other relationships at that age. To give up immediately might be a mistake, but wedding oneself to it is a bigger mistake still. Better to stay open to new ideas and career possibilities.

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@Lindagaf @compmom thank you both for your advice! I agree with getting references before having to pay out that kind of money. It’s true that we have no guarantee that he won’t change in mind in a few years time, but so far, he has really enjoyed his volunteer experiences in the hospital and shadowing a few physicians although I know watching and doing are two different things. Right now, we’re just trying to make sure we can best support him down the path that he chooses.

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omg really? just ask your school counselor for some advice! yes, he or she might be super swamped with work, but if you schedule appointments with him or her after school or know of a really good public school counselor within your district or in a neighboring district (i would offer some cash like 250-500) to look over the application then do it - also honestly you can save your 1k application fee (omg i want to throw my computer on the ground for just even know some places charge 1k for an app fee…are you f-ing kidding me?) and spend 10 bucks (mostly on shipping) and buy some college admissions books from amazon - get The Gatekeepers, read the book then decide if you want to spend your money. i’m a high school counselor and here is some tips - know your scores and know yourself. if you kid isn’t spending time to focus on his areas of growth for his standardize test scores and really put in the work like an hour a day for 3 months taking a min of 2 practice exams and using the data to improve on areas of weakness (you do this over the summer btw) and then focus on the essays (use the english teacher to proof read) and develop a narrative of who he is and then guess what after that behind closed doors at these places here is how the convo goes “ok so we need more people from n. dakota - find it them from the 35k applicants” just save your cash and buy the book - buy it used also.

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kkfields, young people don’t know that much about the complexities of the job market. I really feel that many want to be doctors or lawyers because these are categories of work that are familiar via popular culture. I would not encourage your son to specialize his ambitions so early. If you insist on hiring a private college counselor, don’t use one whose practice targets premed. Just find someone who allows your son to direct the process and is a facilitator.

Many high school counselors are inadequate (sorry Lamar). But this forum, and books on admission (read Loren Pope’s books, and guides like the Princeton Review) can be good tools. Most important are website research and visits. But honestly, it’s not rocket science. And any major supports future medical school.

Choose schools according to academics (how many gen eds? what majors are available? are there TAs? lectures or discussion? is interdisciplinary work possible? research?), location (city, suburb, rural, Northeast, CA, Midwest, south etc?, size (LAC, large university?), and perhaps most of all, “vibe” (sports, frats, alternative, artsy etc.) Some families visit one of each type to start with, just to winnow things down a bit from the start.

This can all be a great time in a relationship between a teen and parent, but it can also be fraught with tension. I think that having a counselor can sometimes help with that, but it also means the parent is less involved and I know I would have regretted that.

Sorry to repeat myself but with the additional information in your second post I just wanted to say a little more. My kids didn’t prep for testing and didn’t have any help with essays and did fine with admissions. I mainly drove them where they wanted to visit. It really works out pretty naturally if you let it.

p.s. Brown is a great school with a lot of freedom to choose classes, explore and grow. I understand the impulse for premed but I think attending there with a little more openness to future possibilities makes the best use of that freedom.

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My D. was in combined bs/md but we never used any paid advising or tutors. She actually was working as a paid tutor at her college as she was hired as a Supplemental Instructor by Gen. Chem. prof. - the best job in college. She has met the requirements for matriculation to the Medical school within her bs/md program, but decided to apply out while retaining her spot at the medical school in her program. She was accepted to 3 additional medical schools (one of them happened to be at Northwestern - Feinberg). She had hard time deciding, but ended up attending at another private medical school, while turning down Northwestern.

After her experiences applying to combined bs/md and to medical schools via regular route which is very unique, I can tell you that bs/md programs are much more selective than applying the regular route to the same medical schools. D. was actually rejected per-interview from the bs/md that had the Medical school that she later ended up attending being accepted there via Regular Route. She actually did not even apply to Northwestern HPME as Northwestern UG is very expensive.

So, do not give up if not accepted to bs/md.
On the other note, apply much wider than just 3 bs/md programs.
And as a final note, it is a great advantage for the pre-med to attend the college as cheaply as possible. D. was on full tuition Merit scholarship at her college, which freed our family resources to pay for her medical school. She graduated debt free among only 16% of the medical school graduates.
Best wishes to your hard working kid. This road is indescribably tough, it pushes participants to the extreme in all aspects of human nature, intellectual, emotional, social, physical.

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Kids want to be doctors because it’s something they know and doesn’t require follow up questions from well meaning adults.

I’d sprinkle in a bunch of “colleges that I’d like to attend” in addition to the specialized programs. It’s a long way from being 17 and shadowing a doctor and emerging at age 30 with a board certification and specialty.

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we read a lot of books, read and posted a lot here. In retrospect, we still made a number of mistakes with our oldest and would have benefited from a college counselor. Part of the problem with information gathered here is that a) you don’t understand the expertise of the poster and b) most people are posting based on their experience with a small sample size (1-3) kids.

Point in case in this thread, weaved into Compmom’s usual well-written, well-thought out reply is this statement: “My kids didn’t prep for testing and didn’t have any help with essays and did fine with admissions”. I don’t mean to pick on compmom, but is it possible someone reading this is going to take away that their kids don’t really need to prep for standardized tests or have anyone read their essays?

anyhow, paying a $1000 to have someone read an app followed by a 50-50% chance of acceptance doesn’t pass the sniff test for me…too much incentive to reject. Our guidance counselors are horrible with this stuff, they have the kids take some sort of test, hand them a computerized list of matches and wish them luck. my preference would be to find an hourly, fee-based consultancy.

luck!

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“My kids didn’t prep for testing and didn’t have any help with essays and did fine with admissions” - admission where? To combined bs/md programs? They are more selective than Ivy’s…it is hard to believe that somebody had very high SAT / ACT without any prep. Of course, there are test taker giniuses, but if one wants to be accepted to the combined bs/md, they better prepare for the SAT / ACT, at least for few hours.

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I’m agnostic on the paid advising.

However, the idea of a $1000 application fee dings all my bs/scam/ripoff bells UNLESS the fee is (1) refundable if they reject you AND (2) applicable against their fees if they accept you. And even so, I wouldn’t go a step further with those people unless they have a damn good explanation for why the fee is so high.

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I feel the SAT/ACT is an aptitude test, and the preparation most useful is knowing whether to guess, and how to mark questions you are not sure of so as to keep moving, that kind of thing. My kids certainly studied for AP tests or subject tests if they took them. And I think that essays have become almost meaningless with so many adult eyes on them.

What I meant by “did fine with admissions” is that they ended up where they fit. For one that might have been an Ivy, for another community college or a less known LAC.

So quiet desperation (and thanks for the kind words) that is actually what I meant as a take away. I think it’s fine not to do test prep or have anyone read an essay. That is my experience, and I don’t necessarily expect anyone to apply it to their own situation unless it fits or helps.

The thing is, in a forum like this, there are so many different viewpoints that it is a good way to think about things. I never think anyone is really going to do what I did, or think how I thought, unless that is how they were inclined in the beginning. Sometimes one poster can offer a balancing viewpoint but mostly I think it helps to clarify perspective just as much to read a post that your disagree with (like mine in this case) as one you agree with :slight_smile:

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"I feel the SAT/ACT is an aptitude test, and the preparation most useful is knowing whether to guess, and how to mark questions you are not sure of so as to keep moving, that kind of thing. " - My wild guess is that you must have never opened the SAT / ACT practice test book. While a kid cannot improve reading speed in the short time, there are others things that kids could improve thru preparation to increase their scores. This preparation makes sense the most when it is personalized. My D., for example. prepared only one section - math. She had a certain goal based on her abilities. And her specific set of abilities included slower reading which has been a drag on all of her standardized tests. So, she predicted that her Verbal (Reading) section will have a low score. To compensate for the low Reading score, she prepared math only (her strong subject) and she was able to pull a score which was enough for the programs that she was applying. The kids who are specifically advanced in math, simply have to re-fresh the material that they learned in the middle school as most of SAT / ACT math is based on the middle school material. Preparation makes perfect sense if one is applying to very selective programs like combined bs / md. No preparation means plainly giving up your spot. SAT/ACT is NOT an aptitude test, the scores reflect the level of preparation in these very easy and low level tests. The same could be said about other per-professional and professional exams that test at much higher level. One cannot take MCAT, LSAT, Medical boards,…etc. without preparation, it is simply waste of time.

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@quietdesperation the $1000 application fee is fully refunded if you’re not accepted and applied towards the program fee if you are accepted. I’m really glad to hear things worked out for your kids but because this is a one shot deal, I’d rather air on the side of caution.

After speaking with several companies, we’ve decided to go with Advisor Prep and trust my gut instinct. They seem to be the most responsive and have had a lot of success for their students. Take UMKC’s BA/MD program for instance, I was told that a huge chunk of those accepted received admissions prep from them.

It’s a lot of money, but if it gets us the results we paid for, then that’s ultimately what matters.

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@compmom it’s great that your kids were able to end up where they fit for admissions but as others on this thread have mentioned, these combined BA MD programs are soo competitive (even more than the ivies) so as a parent, I want to do whatevever I can within my reach to help ensure success for my kids. Just sitting back and buying them books is not going to cut it. My point for creating this thread was to gain perspectives on the different companies from parents that have used them, rather than to be discouraged from not using them.

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@millie210 I asked them the exact question about the high $1,000 application fee and was told it’s to deter people who are not serious from applying. For me there’s no risk, because I’m sure I want to do this for my kid, so if accepted, that $1,000 will be applied to the program’s fee and if not accepted, then that amount will be fully refunded.

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“Just sitting back and buying them books is not going to cut it.” - Trust your kid, it will!!
BTW, there are several threads that are created specifically for bs/md programs in http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/
You will find much more about these programs there than on general Parent Forum

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If the goal is med school, it is not necessary to do a BA MD program or even major in a science or other med-related field. That was my main point. Along with the fact that many immature students think they want to be MD’s and change their minds when they gain sophistication. And as others frequently point out, there is no need to aim for prestigious schools either, since admission to med school is often more geared to GPA. Your family may want to go the more stressful route, but it may not really be needed. That’s all from me, promise: I understand why you came on this forum but once you come on to a public forum, you really cannot control the responses you get. Diversity of opinion is a good thing.

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Virginia Commonwealth University has an excellent medical school and has a guaranteed admissions program through their honors college, definitely worth a look, Richmond is a great city to live in. Info here: https://www.pubapps.vcu.edu/honors/guaranteed/medicine/index.aspx