Need blind?

<p>well if they say "we are need-blind towards intl students," most people would think intl students compete on a completely equal footing.
for williams it's stated in very clear terms:
"Williams has a 100% need-blind admission policy.</p>

<p>Put simply, your financial circumstances will not affect your chance of admission to Williams in any way. Because we believe our community should include the best from all backgrounds, there is no limit on financial aid expenditures. This policy allows us to select students - both domestic and international - solely on the basis of academic promise."
for williams, if there is some sort of quota the above paragraph would be pretty deceitful</p>

<p><well if="" they="" say="" "we="" are="" need-blind="" towards="" intl="" students,"="" most="" people="" would="" think="" students="" compete="" on="" a="" completely="" equal="" footing.=""></well></p>

<p>i disagree. just about everyone knows that schools have quotas (official or internal) on the numbers of int'l students - it's mentioned in many places that you'll be judged against others from your school system. the question is, among the pool of applicants to university X from your country, will you be disadvantaged in the admissions process because of your inability to pay? that's what "need-blind towards int'ls" implies.</p>

<p>with regard to the Williams quote, it appears to be making the point that it is solely academic promise, not financial circumstances, that will determine admission - it's a dichotomy that doesn't include nationality as a factor. you could choose to see it as implying that Williams is nationality-blind as well, but it's a weak implication.</p>

<p>in practice it really doesn't matter, since it's pretty difficult to compare students from different school systems, presenting different qualifications, having different expected SAT standards etc. you could never determine if a university is 'nationality-blind', simply because it's impossible for them to be.</p>

<p>i emailed Middlebury and i got this reply
"Middlebury does not set an outside limit to the number of international students that we admit. International student get the same consideration that US students do. If you have applied for financial aid admissions does not see that information. The Admission decision is based solely on
you and your admission application. Only after you have been selected for admission do we give you an aid decision. This would come to you in a sealed envelope along with your admission packet.</p>

<p>Thanks for your inquiry,
Office of Financial Aid
Middlebury College"</p>

<p>oh my gosh! 4.8% acceptance rate for internationals at MIT???
Are other (prestigious) schools like that too?</p>

<p>oh sorry, that relates to the end of 1st page.. I thought I was reading the 2nd page</p>

<p>There are many more need blind colleges. State schools are need blind, but they do not give financial aid. You are admitted regardless if u can pay or not, how u pay it is your problem.</p>

<p>What you need to look for is need-blind and 100% need meet, golden combo. Besides the 6 colleges mentioned here, there are many other colleges that are need blind and 100% need meet. Do some research kids! :)</p>

<p>pls list me some ..i went through probably a hundred schools</p>

<br>


<br>

<p>Keep in mind that having 100% of your need met doesn't make a school affordable. They may calculate your expected contribution in a way that results in a number that is too high to be comfortable (e.g., if your family has high income but high cost of living and little disposable income), and need may be met in large part with loans (which reduce current cash outlay but must be repaid).</p>

<p>Wiki,</p>

<p>There arent anymore 'absolutely need blind to internationals' than WHYP, and maybe Middlebury. The rest award need-based-aid as some sort of merit award to the best in the Intl pool. Eg. John Hopkins, Cornell, Columbia, Swarthmore etc. So if one is Intl and is more than a typical match for a certain college, then some sort of money is certain to come one's way. While I would encourage Intls to apply to their reach and match colleges and hope for the best, they must also identify suitable safeties where their merit will get them money. That is, look for a notch below the match colleges. </p>

<p>Of course, if one says 'I will come to the US only if I get into MIT, otherwise I will study in my own country' then it is best to apply to the dream college and keep the fingers crossed. BTW, places like HYP and MIT is a reach for everyone - Intl or domestic. No one can say with certainty that HYP is a match for them. </p>

<p>If one is very particular about their college/colleges, and if aid is something nice-to-have, but is mentally prepared to go to considerable lengths to raise the money if admission is obtained without aid, then NOT applying for any aid at all (with the exception of WHYPM) will certainly boost their chances. Applying ED boosts chances even more. (Some colleges still have the ED deadlines in the future, although very near future.) </p>

<p>What Roger says is important for children whose parents make good money, say an equivalent of USD 100K. Even if they fall in the meritorious top 5% in the Intl category applicant pool, they will not get any need-based aid even for merit reasons. Perhaps with the exception of Princeton, which is supposed to be very generous while calculating the EFC. So those that fall in a high-income range but need aid must identify colleges which give merit awards to their best Intls without considering need. Eg. Washington U at SL and Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>Cooper Union, that has a top (and perhaps toughest) under-grad engineering program, gives tuition waiver (equivalent to 26K) to all admits including international. ED date is Dec 1. It is located in Manhattan. Boarding, lodging, books and other expenses work out to approx USD 20K per year. However Intls must provide a local US address for all communications with the college. </p>

<p>Brandies has the Wien scholarships for the best Intl students. Lehigh provides need-based-aid to their best Intl applicants as does Johns Hopkins, Duke etc. </p>

<p>WUSTL and Vanderbilt have an impressive list of merit scholarships which is open to Intls also. </p>

<p>Rutgers (an NJ State university) claims that all their in-state and out-of-state scholarships are given only to US residents (GC holders and citizens). But I have heard of some outstanding Intls getting even a full ride there - very high SAT scores, class rank and outstanding ECs. My guess is that even other state colleges like UVA, UNC-Chapel Hill etc. will make such accomodations even though they claim they will not fork out any money to Intls. Many domestic students get lost to the ivy leagues and other top-25 colleges, so these very-good state institutions try to up their standards by sponsoring a few exceptional Intls. </p>

<p>Irrespective of which school one does under-grad studies, it is always possible to go to an MIT, Stanford, Harvard or UC-B for grad or professional studies, provided one does well in their UG studies. Harvard etc. do get their share of grad students from much-lower-ranked universities. So my plea is, keep an open mind about lower-ranked institutions where money will be a certainty. This is what I tell my own son.</p>

<p>well-put, Sugee, you obviously know the facts around here. where's your son headed?</p>

<p>Hope I don't sound foolish but when these need-blind universities claim that they sponser full need, how exactly does this "scholarship" go about? I read that most of this amount will be given in some form of loan in which the student will have to pay back, WITH interest, after graduation. If that is so then isn't it equilvalent to getting a bank loan back home?</p>

<p>Yes. The "scholarship" most universities offer include a grant, a loan and a part-time or summer job. The loan is usually no more than $3000- 4000, and must be paid back. But the grant, which is the largest amount of the three components, does not need to be paid back.</p>

<p>The 'aid' consists of grants, loans and work. The percentage of these components vary from school to school. Princeton I think awards the aid fully as grants. Others do 80-20, 70-30, 50-50 etc. In this board I have read that some colleges give a good percentage as grants in the first year, but for the later years increase the loan component. The college stats in the collegeboard.com site gives this breakdown for every college for incoming freshmen. Merit scholarships are all grants eg. Danforth schol at WUST, Emory Scholars etc. Once again, one must read the college web-sites carefully. Some merit scholarships are need-based while some are non-need-based.</p>

<p>Seeker,</p>

<p>My son is applying to Swarthmore, Coopers, Johns Hopkins as reaches for admission itself. Lehigh, Brandeis, NYU, Rensselear are matches for admissions but a reach for scholarships. UNC-Chapel Hill as a match without any aid expectation. Rutgers, SUNY Binghamton as safeties without aid expectations. We are yet to identify colleges that are a safety for admissions with merit scholarship.</p>

<p>For people with family income under 50k such as myself, or families with income of 100k and kids in private schools or colleges the 100% need meet is the best financial aid.</p>

<p>Merit scholarships are good for those who can afford a big part of the tuition, since it covers tuition only most of the time.</p>

<p>Sugee, many schools offer need based aid for international students. Caltech and Colgate are among some that offer the aid and have need blind admissions. Dartmouth and Amherst are others that offer need based aid upon admissions but are not need blind. Georgetown and Grinell are schools that offer need based aid but aren't full need meet and they do not have need blind admissions either.</p>

<p>Wiki,</p>

<p>Very true. I am not sure Colgate and Caltech offer need-blind admissions to Intls though. </p>

<p>Many, many schools have met the full need of at least some international students. If you go to the college stats in collegeboard.com, in the international stats, they tell you how much money was totally given to Intls and how many intls received such aid. I did a survey of mainly North-eat colleges, and every good college has given money. Amherst gave 1.8 mil, Swarthmore 1.5, Dartmouth 4.3, Duke .9, Upenn 5.3 (to 189 intls), Wellesley 3.5, Wesleyan 1.7, Williams 3.0, so on and so forth. </p>

<p>Now, I dont know how many Intl students were actually admitted, I could not find the stats in the US.News Ultimate College guide either. For eg, from college board we know that Dartmouth disbursed its Intl aid among 142 students. But I dont know how many were totally admitted. US News book says Dartmouth has a total of 191 intl students as of 2002. So we dont know if all intls were given aid at Dartmouth, and if any got left out, if it was prely because they did not need aid/did not apply for aid or because of their merit standng in the Intl pool of selected candidates. The last vagueness is only because they say that they do not guarentee Intls need-based aid. </p>

<p>But the amount of money disbursed shows the college's commitment to Intls, and I would safely assume that going by this stats, say, from the colleges I mentioned above, Dartmouth and UPenn are places where you have a higher probablity of getting good aid. </p>

<p>Princeton gave 6.0 mil to 195 Intls. and MIT 11.1 to 335 Intls.</p>

<p>Sorry, the above post was written by me, but I failed to notice that my son was previously logged in.</p>

<p>Kayoshin, they both do. In fact it is appears in bold letters on their broshure.</p>

<p>Wiki, I'm pretty sure that Colgate and Caltech are not need blind.</p>

<p>Colgate is pretty generous, (Caltech not) but I'm pretty sure they are not need blind towards internationals (they are prob need blind towards American citizens)</p>