I’m currently a Junior interested in looking good for pre-med schools (especially in VA - it’s my state of residency). Can anyone suggest any universities with good pre-med programs? I have a 4.0 unweighted GPA, taking 5 AP’s (2 last year, 5 on both), and a SAT score in the 99th percentile. Greatly appreciated
any college and any major will do. there is no pre-med major or college. med schools require you to take certain courses to gain entrance. That can be done anywhere. You would be hard-pressed to beat the education you can get at a public flagship like your UVA. If you desire something a bit less competitive, you might try VTech. I mention public schools but privates will do as well. You don’t want to acquire a lot of debt as an undergrad because you will acquire a lot of debt during med school. So go to a school your family can easily afford. Investigate whether certain schools in the commonwealth offer large merit scholarships to in-state students with your accomplishments. In addition, check out the need-based Financial Aid at any school in which you’re interested. Each school will have a net price calculator on its financial aid page. Have your parents help you to complete the NPC, and it will tell you approximately what need-based aid you would get and what that school would cost your family. It usu. does not include merit aid. Some public school, in particular, will also offer departmental merit scholarships to already matriculating students, so consider those as well. However, there is no need to limit yourself to VA publics at this point. Check out all kinds of schools all over the place because you have the grades to do so. At the most elite schools, your extracurriculars will play a large role in admissions decisions.
The best pre-med program would be one that turns undergraduates into the most compassionate, perceptive, skilled and motivated physicians and surgeons ever.
Post back when you find one.
Pre-med programs do nothing of the kind. Perhaps there are some medical schools that do this better than others, but chances are that if you haven’t learned compassion, insight, listening, etc. at home you will struggle to learn it when you leave home.
Hmmm…interesting theory.
Pretty much ANY school will work for you as long as you do the work there. What else are you looking for besides location? What are your family college finances like?
The three most obvious schools to look at are UVA, VT, and William & Mary, but again, pretty much ANY school will work.
@foodwishes: Ah . . . returning to the your fundamental question, I would add one point that has not been mentioned. Virginia (I have lived in Fairfax for decades) has a wonderful public higher educational system, with UVa, Tech, William and Mary, JMU, and other fine – and quite inexpensive – schools. HOWEVER – and this is my key point – depending on the OP’s financial circumstances, it can be just (or more) affordable to attend first-quality private institutions. Many high school students (and their parents) automatically assume that in-state public education is axiomatically less costly, but that is plainly false, with almost all of the most-selective universities having very generous, readily available, need-based grants.
None of the foregoing suggests that the OP’s right, smart answer isn’t UVa, Tech, W&M, etc. However, it might be wise for the OP to use the Net Price Calculator (for schools including the Ivies, Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Washington/StL, Hopkins, Rice and so forth), just to ascertain how their “actual” costs would roughly compare to Virginia’s fine public universities.
Start by learning more about what becoming a strong med school applicant takes. Read thru the very informative FAQ at http://www.rhodes.edu/hpa/15890.asp They also have a nice writeup in the PreMed Essentials link on the left side of that page. There is also an excellent online handbook at Amherst I recommend to get an understanding of the process and what really matters
One thing to avoid is placing any importance into acceptance numbers. Some schools boast incredible rates, but it boils down to one of two things. Either they start with great students (think Stanford, etc) or the school weeds out students. Look out especially for the “committee letter” which small schools with average students coming in wield like an axe to prevent all but the strongest applicants from applying right out of college; to no surprise, they often boast 90% or better med school “acceptance” numbers for their undergrads. Soon a regular poster will chime in to recommend one such school, Holy Cross.
I always ask kids that say they want to be doctors, why an M.D? Not that I know it is wrong for you, it may be the right fit, but have you actually looked into the medical field and considered the alternatives? From the day you start college it will be 11-15 years before you are a practicing doctor, depending on what field you go into. In other words, think back to 1st grade; all those years since then matches the minimum it will take to become a practicing doc! Its almost a reflex action among HS kids, they think of a career in medicine and its “I’m pre-med!” Doctors are far from the only ones in the health field that help people. Physical therapists, radiology techs, nurses, speech pathologists, to name but just a few. Before you go heavily into debt and commit so many years I suggest you explore the alternatives.
<<<
best pre-med program would be one that turns undergraduates into the most compassionate, perceptive, skilled and motivated physicians and surgeons ever.
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
?
that would be quite the trick considering what the premed prereqs are…nothing that encourages compassion, skills, etc.
Anyway…there really isn’t such a thing as a “premed program” at 99.9% of undergrads. And even the couple of univs that have “premed programs” they’re not really anything more than some dept granting some sort of “pre-health” degree that isn’t going to look very good on a resume if med school never happens.
Being a premed student generally means taking:
2 semesters of Bio
2 semesters of Gen Chem
2 semesters of Ochem
2 semesters of Physics
1 semester of BioChem
Calc I and/or Stats
Psych and./or Sociology
As you can see…there is nothing “medical” about those classes and nothing unique about them. Your classmates will include a variety of Bio, Chem, Physics, Engineering and other premed students.
Talk to your parents about how much they’ll pay for undergrad.
What was your SAT score? M+CR?
You guys are awesome! I’m really looking towards an in-state school, especially since I have two older brothers going to college at the moment (Carnegie Mellon = a lot of $$$). Income wise, I would definitely consider my family middle-class (maybe upper-middlish), but all that tuition (with financial aid and scholarships) is really starting to rip at my family’s savings, like a lot. Of course, I’m not putting out of state colleges out of consideration, but in reality, I can really only afford tuition that is $25000 max. But the top colleges - Stanford, Harvard, UPenn - nevertheless, are still top priorities to get into (assuming they provide good FA, unlike CMU 
). I never considered that being big schools, many out of state universities also provide good FA (if not better than attending state schools).
@jkeil911
Yeah, the top-notch schools are more than simply numbers indeed. Not that I’m excluding out of state colleges though (if anything, I’m working to get into the top-tier schools, but financial costs are one of my top priorities). If it helps for you to better gauge my academics, my ECs include - 1st place JSHS research regional, Mu Alpha Theta founder, NHS treasurer, tennis varsity captain, Tri-M music honor society member, attended both state and nationals honor bands)
@TopTier
I live in Sterling, Virginia, and yes, the education is top notch. And after reading your message, I guess I’m too obsessed with in-state schools. I never considered the fact that bigger schools can also have huge grants. I’ve never put the bigger schools out of question however. If anything, I’m hoping they would provide more FA than in state schools (plus Stanford, UPenn, Harvard are sorta my dream schools). But being a newbie, I’m not that well informed about this stuff (I never considered that out of state could grant a lot of FA), great that you told me about this though - would’ve never known if you haven’t told me.
@mikeMac
You’re right - I’m still considering other professions. Not that I’m working in the Med field solely for the money (medicine is one of my interests), but I know financially, it would be ideal. Other fields just don’t seem to make do (not that I know of). If it helps, I’m basically a biology/environmental/medical/astrology fanatic (of those, only medicine seems to make a decent income).
@mom2collegekids
Yeah, did some researching and realized that premed programs are nothing more than a set of courses. Maybe would’ve been better if I asked which colleges provide the best classes for med school (I know Harvard, UPENN, John Hopkins provide good classes). My parents are really devoted - basically they said they’ll cover my tuition costs until I finish med school. But I know that would definitely be a financial burden on their part, which is why I have to also contribute in some way. Oh, and seems that some colleges guarantee admission to med school should you be attending their school - do you possibly know anything about it?
My SAT scores are R: 720 W: 780 M:760 if that helps. I gave jkeil911 my list of ECs too. My intent is to make it to one of the more competitive schools like Harvard or UPenn, since I’ve heard their classes/opportunities are good. And since I realized they could also give good FA, out of state universities are definitely not out of question.
You need to think about the type of environment you want to be in. Do you want a highly competitive environment like Johns Hopkins? Or a place that’s a bit more laid back but still challenging?
Schools that “guarantee” admission to their med school usually have a very stringent set of criteria for you to get that slot. It’s only a guarantee if you can meet their GPA and test scores.
If you want to ease the financial burden, you could also look at some private universities that aren’t big names like Harvard or Johns Hopkins. There are many schools that would be willing to give you merit aid with your stats, and would give you the solid undergrad foundation you need to succeed in medical school.
@foodwishes: You have, in my opinion, received considerable good advice in this thread. I’ll take a moment to respond to your comment to me in post #9. I know you were being humorous and self-deprecating – and that is GREAT – but there’s nothing “obsessive” I can detect in your behavior. Rather, your thinking and planning ahead, which is precisely what you’re supposed to do.
As I suggested in my earlier post (#6), Virginia is blessed – and we have devoted many resources to attain this, over the last century – with an excellent public higher education system. This may very well be your best undergraduate destination. However, universities including Stanford, Penn, Harvard, Duke (I couldn’t neglect my alma mater), and other most-selective schools are DEEPLY committed to need-based grants for undergraduates. Therefore, it really will be in your interest to investigate the likely net cost your family will incur – at (for example) UVA and W&M, but also at Penn and Stanford – because it’s far from certain the public alternatives will be less expensive.
There’s a world of good information on CC (in the scholarships forum). At the top-level, however, each university’s Net Price Calculator is your highly-beneficial “friend” to ascertain rough and ever-more-definitive costs. I’ll add one final comment, for you and your parents. It’s very important to use the NPC with thoroughness and accuracy (especially as you get closer to application submissions). You’ll see that the NPC’s determinations tie to the “reasonable contribution” your family can make to your undergraduate costs. Thus, here is my key point for all of you: that “reasonable contribution” (as I understand it, and I am not an expert in this area) is not really geographically indexed. Consequentially, a “middle class” family in Loudoun or Fairfax, may well be assed as “upper middle” by national standards (simply because salaries are increased here to compensate for considerable elevated everyday costs). I highlight this because realistically it means – and your family has likely already experienced this with your older sibling at CM – potentially reduced need-based FA. I don’t believe that’s particularly fair for families who live in high cost-of-living areas, but it’s factual.
I wish you good luck as you continue your voyage toward undergraduate school.
<<<
Maybe would’ve been better if I asked which colleges provide the best classes for med school (I know Harvard, UPENN, John Hopkins provide good classes)
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
No, they don’t.
Schools do not “provide good classes for med school.” Schools do not prepare students for med school or the MCAT. They just provide those basic classes. Again, there is nothing special about them. They aren’t “medical”. They’re just basic bio, chem, physics classes. That’s why there will be other STEM students in those classes.
Your parents sound a LOT more affluent than “maybe upper middlish”. If they can pay for siblings’ CMU with ''bad aid" and also pay for your undergrad and med school, then they’re not likely even close to middle class. And likely the reason your siblings didn’t get much/any need based aid from CMU is because CMU saw your family’s financial situation and deemed that there was no or little need.
A family would have to be very strong financially to have 2 at CMU and get little aid.
Do your parents own a business? What do they do for a living?
However, it is wise to be concerned about college costs, especially with med school on the horizon. I have a son in medical school, so I know what the costs are. Sending a child thru a pricey private and then med school can mean paying $550k total when all is done. It is not necessary to spend anywhere near that much money, but some people do.
[QUOTE=""]
My SAT scores are R: 720 W: 780 M:760 if that helps. I gave jkeil911 my list of ECs too. My intent is to make it to one of the more competitive schools like Harvard or UPenn, since I've heard their classes/opportunities are good. And since I realized they could also give good FA, out of state universities are definitely not out of question.
[/QUOTE]
You have the stats for a good bit of merit at some mid tiers. Not likely going to get merit at top schools.
I think you need to have your parents run the NPC on JHU’s and UPenn’s websites. I suspect that you won’t be qualifying for much aid. However, if your parents are self employed or take business deductions or own other properties the NPCs may not be accurate.
@TopTier
I can’t describe in words how thankful I am. I will definitely be looking into that!
@InigoMontoya
Hmm… I’ve heard otherwise. It seems that the larger public institutions have more money to give grants, whereas the lesser known private universities don’t have that kind of savings. If you any universities in mind, I’d be happy to know. That way I can do a little researching.
@mom2collegekids
No, my parents aren’t rich at all (wish they were!). Only my dad works, and he’s a computer engineer. I know they said they would help pay for my tuition, (along with my brothers’), but in reality, it won’t work out without FA/scholarships. His income is below $100,000, and I know for a fact that our savings will shrink based on current income/current savings (not that much savings either). No businesses, no extra savings (parents started out really poor), just what we have now is what we have (and unfortunately there’s not much). It’s only because of all the scholarships that my brothers have accumulated that my parents can pay for the rest, as of their first year tuition. They said they would help “pay” for my tuition, but not without them going into debt.
It seems that all the costs of tuition - 4 year college, medical school - is going to sum up to an enormous amount. Since the courses are essentially the same in nature, I’m guessing that it would be best to work more towards a cheaper school than a top tier school? Thanks again
<<<<
I’m guessing that it would be best to work more towards a cheaper school than a top tier school?
[QUOTE=""]
[/QUOTE]
Not only does it NOT matter where you go to undergrad (unless it’s some really podunk school that no one has heard of), it can actually be a NEGATIVE to go to a top undergrad where all the premed classmates are very strong students.
the premed prereqs are WEEDER courses for premeds and eng’g students. A limited number of A’s are given. So, do the math…lol…if everyone in the class is like you or better, then your chances of getting the A’s are worsened.
My son’s SAT was a little better, and he had the same UW GPA, and he had almost a free ride for his undergrad…he got free tuition plus $5000 per year…he also got a couple of add’l awards as a current undergrad. His undergrad cost us VERY little…about $5k per year. lol
You do have a point there… exclusion doesn’t always mean better (and considering the limit they put on A’s, probably not the easiest to attend the top schools). Is it possible if I can know your son’s EC’s and the college he went to? Seems like a good path I would consider taking…
Unfortunately, my parents are not very informed about this whole college thing. They have a provincial view regarding the way the education system works, which I understand though, since they came from a rudimentary education system.
I don’t know what kind of financial aid VA public schools offer, but they are certainly excellent schools. My understanding is that, with some exceptions (high-stats merit aid at U of Alabama, Ole Miss are a couple you should look in to), public universities do not give significant amounts of aid to out-of-state students - which makes sense. Their mandate is to educate the tax paying citizens in their state. They look for out-of-state students to be full pay to subsidize in-state students.
If you have financial need, then the more selective/prestigious the school, the better the aid typically, as they have large endowments. If you don’t have significant need, then an option is to look at private schools where your scores place you in the top 10-15% of students. These schools often give substantial merit scholarships to students who boost their averages.
If you use the search tool on this site, one of the options you can select is to filter for schools where your numbers are high enough to likely qualify you for aid. Then look at whether the schools returned offer merit aid (not all schools do). Unfortunately net price calculators won’t help you out here, as most schools have somewhat flexible criteria for who receives merit scholarships (based on the competitiveness of the applicant pool any given year). Some even require you to come on-campus for scholarship competition days.
For example, Elon University has tuition of $31,000/year. Approx. the top 15% of students are automatically eligible for a Presidential scholarship, which can be up to $6k/year (renewable as long as GPA is maintained). Then you can apply to compete for a Fellows program such as Honors - if accepted, that’s an additional $13,500/year renewable. So now tuition is down to $11,500. Honors fellows planning on medical school can apply for an additional $4,000/year scholarship (renewable). And one Honors fellow receives a 4-year full tuition scholarship. None of this is guaranteed, but with your stats, you would be very competitive at Elon or other comparable colleges.
Remember, start your college application list with a safety that you like, know you will be admitted to, and know that you can afford (based on its net price calculator or assured-for-your-stats merit scholarships). With high stats and academic interests that many schools can fulfill, that should not be too hard. Then you can build the rest of your list – remember that the private schools with the best financial aid tend to be highly selective, often “reach for everyone”.
Note: while some students use starting at a community college their safeties, this may be less suitable for a pre-med, since some medical schools look down on pre-med course work taken at community colleges. So be sure to select a four year school safety for your application list.
We don’t have all the information that you have, but it would be safe to say that you won’t be getting a lot of aid from Top Thirty schools. So don’t apply to too many of them. Much need-based aid is not something you’re likely to get at the Top Thirty because of your family’s income and your SAT scores (good as they are, they’re meh! at these schools). The exception here is an in-state public like UVA or W&M.
You could instead be looking at schools that will give you a significant portion of your cost of attendance in merit-based aid. So schools with low cost and lots of merit. This includes OOS publics like Temple, Alabama, Arizona, and Pitt. There are many others, and you can find them in the scholarships forum of CC.
[QUOTE=""]
It's only because of all the scholarships that my brothers have accumulated
[/QUOTE]
Where did those merit scholarships come from? CMU? Another source? It is very hard to get outside merit awards that for all 4 years…most are only for frosh year only.
[QUOTE=""]
Is it possible if I can know your son's EC's and the college he went to?
[/QUOTE]
My son went to Alabama with very generous merit awards. His ECs consisted of: internship, research with a ChemE prof, an REU, shadowing doctors, two trips abroad (the “doctors without borders” kind of trips).