Move on from discussing Utah. OP specifically asked about Middlebury and Bates. If the OP would like to get other suggestions, they can start a chance/match me.
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Agree with Shelby. Bates students might not get all 4/4 classes the first time around but I think this is a common issue with lots of smaller colleges. Mine found that, after writing to the professor, a spot opened up. No issue. Things seem to work out eventually. Psych is one of the most popular majors and so far my kid has been able to get all 5 psych classes needed the past 3 semesters. Halfway there!
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I have yet to hear of a college where every students gets every class they want, especially as underclassmen. D had maybe a couple of classes that she couldn’t get into at Bates. As an upperclassman, I don’t believe there were any. AFAIK, there is no chronic issue with students being unable to get classes there. The freshman I know at Bates has reported no problem with that and another student who graduated last year didn’t say anything either.
Like most LACs, not all classes are on offer every session. I do know that D loved the classes she took as “consolation prizes.”
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I REALLY appreciate all of this - you have no idea! The college process is bizarrely secretive where I live, so this is really helpful.
Yeah, no to UT - she’s not interested in living a plane-flight away - fine with us!
@westcoastfam - SO HELPFUL. Thank you! All the psych info is great and the community piece is really important - they didn’t have that in the 90s, trust me. Her 3.8 is unweighted and includes 2 APs junior year, hardest classes possible otherwise. 4 APs senior year and I think that she’ll be submitting at least A- in all of her classes with her first term grades when applying ED. Regular admissions at Bates seems to be impossible!
@dogdoo - that’s excellent advice to have someone talk her into each school! I don’t know if she’ll go for it, but I’ll suggest it. Right now she’s trying on an “acceptance” from each for several days to see how each fits.
@publisher - she has some great schools that she’d be happy at, and we may (?) go visit them before ED1 decision so that she’s pumped about the alternatives.
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Just so you know, RD at Bates is more likely than RD at Midd. Both offer a considerable ED advantage, but Midd filled far more of their class through ED than Bates did last year. I don’t think there’s a huge difference in their overall acceptance rates (I’m seeing varying numbers for MIddlebury last year, but I think it was 11% overall, and Bates was 12-13%), but Middlebury accepts far more in the ED round. The RD acceptance rate must be minuscule.
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Sarah - sounds very similar to my kid who got in ED1 at Bates. 5 APs total and 2 dual enrollment (4 of the APs could only be taken senior year so AP scores could not be submitted, and that was ok). UW gpa was 3.9, weighted was 4.1 at start of senior year. Likes professors, likes campus layout, food is terrific, short term in May is a blast, has a nice friend group (very down-to-earth kids). Things we didn’t know about: warmer than expected, fun little lake w/beach nearby where kids go in Sept/Apr/May, lots of coffee shops within a mile, quad is stunning in fall, puddle jump is a full-day event and so cool! I guess you know most of these things already but wanted to include. Best of luck!
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This is a great resource for ED/RD rates: Early Decision and Regular Decision
For college class of 2026, Bates was 48% ED, 11% RD. Middlebury was 42/10.
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Oh, wow – not as pronounced a difference as I thought.
Sorry - someone brought it up (the West).
I think the student should choose the school of choice as mentioned earlier.
Bates will happen…but if it’s not the top choice, it shouldn’t be ED1. It will happen based on what @Collegequestions5 just raised - as I noted earlier it’s third party (that I sourced) but Bates isn’t a hard admit ED…but it is otherwise. Of course, ED1 will include athletes, etc.
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Middlebury is larger, but there is less going on around the college. The town is tiny, with a handful of restaurants. There are interesting places around, but you need a car. The food is also excellent at Middlebury and they supply a good amount of produce (especially in the fall term) from their own extensive “kitchen garden”.
I would say that the big difference is the fact that Bates has some urban areas within relatively close proximity, while Middlebury is very rural. It’s all tiny towns, with the larger “city” being Burlington with fewer than 45,000 residents, and it’s around an hour drive away. Well, that also makes it more difficult to get to Middlebury, but the train helps a bit.
I don’t know what the context of the 3.8 GPA is, but if that put’s the OP’s daughter in th etop percentiles of her graduating class, she should be fine.
I think that Bates is more selective, but Middlebury may be looking to accept fewer student next year, so that may affect selectivity.
@sarahbrown24 I think that your D24 would do great at either and be happy in either, but I think that there is a higher chance at Bates, and, since your daughter has no preference, I would recommend that ED1 should be Bates.
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Both are terrific choices. But your daughter should ED only if she has a top choice.
I’d factor in ease of travel. I think both campuses are very nice, but a Middlebury really is in the middle of no where. Bates is sort of in the middle of somewhere! Does that matter to your daughter?
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@thumper1 - great question. I don’t know that it matters - and we did track down a TJMaxx in Middlebury when we needed an extra charger so that was something
@MWolf - what would help with context of her 3.8? She took the hardest classes possible, 2 APs junior year (AP Lit, APUSH) which is standard for her high school and kind of the most you can take unless you’re a SUPER stem person and take two sciences and you can’t take AP earlier than junior year, and 4 AP courses now (AP Psych, AP Lit, AP Bio, AP Calc) + gym + elective. Does that help/make sense? Thanks!!!
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I have a sophomore at Bates. We toured Midd and she liked it, but Bates is more her vibe. She likes the community, the collaborative environment, and has had great professors. And she made good use of the New England college ski pass last year at Sunday River and Sugarloaf.
Re the discussed issue with class availability … I think it was a bit surprising that it took effort for her to get into some classes, but she has gotten into every class in her major or minor that she wanted. Professors have been very helpful and in a couple cases the school/dept added sections when needed. For non major/minor classes, with a little planning and flexibility she’s gotten into great classes. I imagine the experience may be similar at other SLACs.
Both schools are great options… but as others have said Bates is probably better odds being a legacy. Any of these type of schools with no hook seems like tough sledding. Midd’s acceptance rate for 2027 was 12%… but that includes international students (11%), recruited athletes (~25%), POC (35%), first gen (17%), and probably some legacy/donor families (?%). I’m sure there’s overlap in those groups… but the point is that awesome students with no hook are completing for a small portion of the 12%.
If your daughter decides she likes Midd more, she could ED1 there and probably still have good odds at Bates with ED2.
Best of luck and happy to answer any questions about our experience so far at Bates!
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Most student who are accepted to Middlebury have GPAs over 3.9, however, GPA is only meaningful in context of the high school. Many high schools have a lot of grade inflation, while others do not. Some high schools are more challenging than others, and the GPAs of students from these high schools will be considered in that context. Does your kid’s high school have Naviance? If so, see how admissions are for students in that GPA range.
Also, look specifically at colleges which are popular among students of your kid’s high schools and which have higher than average admission rates. For AOs to consider the high school context of a kid’s GPA, they need to be familiar with the high school. If they are not familiar with the high school, and they do not receive many applications from that high school, they generally will go with comparing the applicant’s GPA to the GPAs of the other applicants, which generally hurts students from challenging high schools or high schools with grade deflation.
Looking at Naviance will tell you whether the college is familiar and respects your daughter’s school, because they will accept kids from your daughter’s school at a higher rate than students from other schools with similar GPAs.
Back when my kid was looking at colleges, it was pretty clear. At some colleges, especially those within geographic proximity, a GPA+test score range would be a likely or even a safety for applicants from my kid’s school, while it was a toss-up for other applicants with the same stats. On the other hand, other colleges which were further, with similar admission rates and the same mid-50% for GPAs, would be a toss-up for these applicants from my kid’s high school.
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@mwolf - thanks, this was super helpful. I looked at the data for post-COVID years (data 2020 and earlier just doesn’t seem relevant anymore - please correct me if I’m wrong). Last year 3 kids applied ED - one accepted - 3.64 GPA, SAT: 1500. One reject had 3.97 GPA and 1460 SAT and one had 3.74 and 1430 SAT. Her high school has an instagram page where about half the kids post their college outcome, but no one posted about Middlebury, so she doesn’t know who that person is and if they had a hook (I’d presume so, with a 3.64 GPA, but I could be wrong!). No one applied early in 2021 or 2022.
12 kids have applied RD to Middlebury from 2021-2023; one got in with these stats: GPA: 3.86, SAT: 1510, ACT: 32. 8 rejected all with ACT 33 and below (GPAs ranged from 3.2 to 3.8). 3 kids waitlisted outcome unknown - our system never updates these kids so no idea if they got in off the waitlist. One with these stats (but test optional) GPA: 3.86, SAT: 1380, ACT: 31. Two with these stats: 3.94 GPA, SAT: 1530.
Would love any thoughts on these data!
[incidentally, for the same years, only one kid got into Bates ED (GPA: 3.95, SAT: 1360, ACT: 33) and one RD (GPA: 3.86136, SAT: 1510, ACT: 32). No one else has applied ED in those 3 years, and 10 other kids applied RD, and similar to Middlebury, 3 waitlisted, 7 rejected)].
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@mainlandjones Yeah, this is such an issue for so many kids! Thanks so much for your thoughts - I really appreciate it - and so wonderful to know that your sophomore is happy at Bates!
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But the issue is to define what constitutes a “hook”.
We all know certain categories are hooks for most schools, but what constitutes a hook outside of these typical categories changes each year depending upon school needs or wants and availability based on the attributes of the current applicant pool.
In OP’s situation, leadership may or may not be viewed by a particular school as a hook. Much depends upon how this quality & experience is portrayed in the application and in teacher recommendations.
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Bates has a new president-- Garry Jenkins. Brilliant, down to earth, and incredibly kind.
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He’s very impressive. Everyone seems to be rallying around him. As a Bates parent, I’m happy to see how charismatic and well liked he is, and I think he will be fantastic at fundraising and pushing new initiatives forward at Bates.
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Sarah, if you’re curious who is at Middlebury (or Bates) from your area, you can also google Linked In, Middlebury, and high school name. I did this for my kid’s school and, sure enough, all the kids popped up. Might give you a sense of what the “hook” was for last year’s admit?
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