Need help deciding engineer college pathway (California)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Well, it’s my senior year in high school and I should start applying for colleges in a month. I’ve decided that I want to major in computer engineering. However, I’m still a bit confused on the importange of varying degrees, which colleges are best, undergrad vs. grad, etc. Could you guys help me out with this college stuff? I’m kind of insecure when it comes to my academic resume, so this leads me to perhaps shoot a lot lower in terms of colleges than I should (Based on what my counselors tell me, I can get into nearly any college I wanted to; I don’t believe this at all.) So, I THINK Cal Poly (San Luis Obispo) is a good place to shoot for, and that’s what I’ve been telling everybody is going to be my choice (Though I’m honestly not 100% sure since I don’t know what other colleges I could get into, but I’m pretty sure I could get into Cal Poly). The only other two colleges that I’ve heard that have good engineering programs are CalTech and UC Berkeley. So, some questions:</p>

<li><p>When pursuing a engineering degree, which level of degree do you recommend? I’m a rather academically motivated student, so I’m ready for rigerous college work. So, I was thinking to work for at least a Master’s degree. However, looking at the Cal Poly website, I don’t see any listing for a Master’s under Computer Engineering ([http://www.calpoly.edu/~rgp/programs.html](<a href=“http://www.calpoly.edu/~rgp/programs.html"]http://www.calpoly.edu/~rgp/programs.html[/URL]”>http://www.calpoly.edu/~rgp/programs.html)</a>). So, does that mean that this would be a dead end choice since I’d only be able to get a simple Bachelor’s degree here (Which I’m guessing would really limit my job choices and would really hurt job stability)? I believe some people get their undergrad degree at one university, then transfer to another to get their graduate degree. Is this recommended/does this look any worse in the eyes of an employer? If I’m shooting to get my Master’s in computer engineering, is this recommended if I can’t get into a university that offers graduate programs for computer engineering (CalTech and UC Berkeley, I think)?</p></li>
</ol>

<h2>2. What are some universities with acclaimed engineering programs that you could recommend/suggest? All of my information is based on a 2005 edition of U.S. News & World Report of America’s Best Colleges. In there, there are 2 tables that I looked at (Along with 2 more larger tables containing more universities):</h2>

<p>Best undergraduate engineering programs
(At schools whose highest degree is a bachelor’s or master’s; <em>Public university or college)
Computer Engineering

  1. Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech. (IN)
  2. Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo</em>
    Cooper Union (NY)
  3. Harvey Mudd College (CA)
  4. Milwaukee School of Engineering</p>

<p>(At schools whose highest degree is a doctorate; <em>Public university or college)

  1. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology
  2. University of California–Berkeley</em>
  3. Stanford University (CA)
  4. U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champiagn*</p>

<h2>5. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor*</h2>

<p>Based on this, CalPoly seems like it’d be a nice choice if I didn’t want to go to a university that offered a doctorate degree. However, this is misleading in that it seems that the highest degree CalPoly offers for computer engineering is a mere Bachelor’s! What’s your opinion of these listed colleges and how do you recommend finding both a college tha offers a great computer engineering program, but also offers at least a Master’s degree?</p>

<li>Similar to question 1, what level of degree should I shoot for? A simple Bachelor’s degree seems to simple. A Master’s is what I originally wanted (But of course there’s the whole CalPoly issue and trying to find out how/where I would get this graduate degree). Would a Doctorate be too extreme/overkill/an impossible work load? I realize that an immense amount of effort is required for this kind of degree, so that’s why I’m not sure. But I’m not one to like the idea of only going 2/3 of the total distance and realizing that there’s more ahead of me to learn, but calling it quits and just sticking with a Master’s. Know what I mean?</li>
</ol>

<p>Here’s my academic history to help you help me with an idea of what kind of college/degree I should shoot for:</p>

<h2>Freshman</h2>

<p>1st Semester
Freshman Essentials…A
Honors English 1-2…A
Geometry…A
PE 9…A
Honors Biology…A
Spanish 1-2…A</p>

<p>2nd Semester
Freshman Essentials…A
Honors English 1-2…A
Geometry…A
PE 9…A
Honors Biology…A
Spanish 1-2…A</p>

<h2>Sophmore</h2>

<p>1st Semester
Algebra 3-4…A
AP European History…B+
Honors English 3-4…A
PE 10…A
Honors Chemistry…A
Spanish 3-4…A</p>

<p>2nd Semester
Algebra 3-4…A
AP European History…A
Honors English 3-4…A
PE 10…A
Honors Chemistry…A
Spanish 3-4…A</p>

<h2>Junior</h2>

<p>1st Semester
AP Biology…A
Industrial Engineering Technology…A
AP English Language…A
AP U.S. History…B
Math Analysis (Pre-Calculus)…A
Spanish 5-6…A</p>

<p>2nd Semester
AP Biology…A
Industrial Engineering Technology…A
AP English Language…A
AP U.S. History…A
Math Analysis (Pre-Calculus)…A
Spanish 5-6…A</p>

<h2>Senior</h2>

<p>Current classes:
AP Physics
AP Calculus
AP Government & Economics
AP English Literature
Industrial Engineering Technology
Photography</p>

<hr>

<h2>Class Rank:… 3</h2>

<p>AP Scores:
AP European History…2
AP Biology…5
AP English Language…3</p>

<h2>AP U.S. History…4</h2>

<p>SAT Score:
Critical Reading:…670
Math:…700</p>

<h2>Writing:…730</h2>

<p>Extracurricular activities:
Lifetime CSF (California Scholarship Federation) Member
ENTEC Club (Associated with Industrial Engineering Technology course)
FBLA
Science Olympiad (1st place Regional Division winner - Events: Cell Biology,
Compute This; 3rd place Regional Division winner - Event: Fermi Questions)
Science & Technology Club</p>

<h2>T-Bots Club (Robotics club)</h2>

<p>Thank You :)</p>

2

<p>Your SATs are not bad but you might consider retaking them a couple of times to raise your score.</p>

<p>If you want to stay in California, you should consider Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, UCLA, UC San Diego, USC, UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis. It is hard to beat the UC schools I named for combined cost and quality, if you are a CA resident. If you prefer a smaller school, then Harvey Mudd. If you are considering schools outside California, then check out the schools on the PhD-granting list in US News.</p>

<p>You should go elsewhere for a masters to expand your horizons. But, some schools have a joint BS/MS in engineering that shortens the time and cost. I am not sure which UC schools have joint BS/MS programs.</p>

<p>The list you mentioned of non-PhD schools...I think you should not consider schools on that list because your credentials are probably good enough for the PhD-granting engineering schools. You can do better than Cal Poly.</p>

3

<p>Well I'm not sure about any of the UC schools but at Stanford you can do a Co-terminal BS/MS degree. Its definitely more expensive than the UC schools but it undeniably has one of the best engineering schools in the US.</p>

4

<p>It's pretty typical to get a bachelor's degree at one school and a master's degree at another, and it won't look poorly in the eyes of your employer. Why would it? Colleges that have bachelor's/master's as the highest degree and colleges that have PhD's as the highest degree are the same really in terms of undergrad quality. The difference is when it comes to graduate research. Bigger PhD universities have the clear advantage there.</p>

<p>A doctorate degree in engineering is good if you love to do research. Many people with doctorate degrees go on to be professors.</p>

5

<p>If you want to work as an engineer in a company, you should get either your bachelor's alone or a bachelor's and a master's degree. As others have said, at some schools there is a program which allows you to complete your bachelor's + master's in 5 years rather than 6 or 7.</p>

<p>If you want to work as an engineering professor in a university, you should get your PhD.</p>

<p>This is not a decision you have to make right now.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I'm kind of insecure when it comes to my academic resume, so this leads me to perhaps shoot a lot lower in terms of colleges than I should (Based on what my counselors tell me, I can get into nearly any college I wanted to; I don't believe this at all.) So, I THINK Cal Poly (San Luis Obispo) is a good place to shoot for, and that's what I've been telling everybody is going to be my choice (Though I'm honestly not 100% sure since I don't know what other colleges I could get into, but I'm pretty sure I could get into Cal Poly). The only other two colleges that I've heard that have good engineering programs are CalTech and UC Berkeley. So, some questions

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hmm... well, the last time I heard,in California itself Stanford has a strong engineering program no less than Caltech and Berkeley. </p>

<p>I think your profile is pretty strong for most of the top schools like Cornell, Michigan, CMU etc. It is not that stellar for Stanford, Caltech, and MIT though.</p>

<p>Considering you want to stay in California, if you aim to end at Masters level, you might want to shoot for Berkeley or Cal Poly for your undergraduate study, then apply to Stanford for Masters degree. Strategically, Caltech is the hardest to get into for undergraduate level, and Berkeley is the hardest to get into for Masters level. While Stanford is quite difficult to get into for undergraduate level, it has the most lenient admission for Masters level (since they will practically wipe 50% of their Masters students who intend to pursue PhD there).</p>

7

<p>according to a engineering trade newspaper, "With a few notable exceptions, U.S. engineering schools typically have attrition rates hovering between one-half and two-thirds." See <a href="http://tinyurl.com/buzhg%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tinyurl.com/buzhg&lt;/a> and <a href="http://tinyurl.com/g8v4w%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://tinyurl.com/g8v4w&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>So I'd suggest you pick colleges with significant thought spent on where you'd want to be in case you DO fall into the group that leaves engineering. Especially if you don't have any real-world exposure yet to what engineers actually do during the day. And I strongly recommend (for any prospective career, not just engineering) getting hands-on experience and information thru internships, talking to people that work in the field, etc. as soon as possible before you sink 4+ years into an area. In engineering, as with most majors, what you do in the classroom is in many cases different than what you do on the job.</p>

<p>The 5-year MS programs are a great deal, but it is really important to have had an internship before your 5th year so that you know you're focusing the MS on the appropriate field and are taking the relevant courses.</p>

<p>While there are tiers of engineering schools, as long as you go to one that is ABET acreddited (for EE at least; not sure if they have it for computer engineering) you're going to a solid school. So look at the other factors for fit -- location, type of students it attracts, class size, type of advising it provides, cost, etc.</p>

8

<ol>
<li><p>Make sure you understand the differences in cost between a private (Stanford, CalTech, Harvey Mudd, USC, etc.), in state public (UCs, CalPoly, other CalStates), and out of state to another state. It can be significant unless you get a really great aid package.</p></li>
<li><p>Several of the UCs are ranked highly in engineering - not just Cal. Also check out UCLA, UCSD, UCD, UCSB, UCI, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>CalPoly is a great engineering school but many would place several of the UCs higher. You'd do just fine if you attended CalPoly though.</p></li>
<li><p>Many schools offer combined BS/MS programs in their engineering schools although it'll require maintaining a certain GPA - not the easiest thing to do in engineering.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't have the mindset that you 'have' to be in the top few engineering schools to obtain your BS. There are excellent program at many schools that aren't ranked up top. </p></li>
<li><p>It's true that engineering undergrads have a high attrition rate. They discover either than engineering isn't for them or that the work is either too much or too difficult and switch majors to a non-engineering one. Make sure whatever school you pick offers other acceptable choices for you.</p></li>
<li><p>Whereever you go you'll have to live there for 4-5 years. Make sure you pick a place you don't mind living for that period of time.</p></li>
</ol>

9

<p>Wow, lots of useful advice here. Thanks!</p>

<p>So, it'll be pretty hard to get into Stanford for me? I've never considered Stanford until right now, so they don't have any of my SAT/AP Scores. So, the following are on my list to consider:</p>

<p>Cal Poly
Caltech
UC Berkeley
Stanford</p>

<p>I know right now that if I pursure Computer Engineering that I want a Master's degree at the minimum. So, I don't know if I should look at undergrad schools right now when the expectation of transferring for my graduate degree, or if I should just flat out look at schools that offer both. However, key problem: neither Caltech nor Berkeley offer Computer Engineering. I'd have to major in Electrical Engineering to study there.</p>

<hr>

<p>CalTech offers the following undergrad majors (specialized concentrations within each option are hypenated):</p>

<p>Electrical Engineering
-Communications and Signal Processing
-Control
-Electronic Circuits
-Microwave and Radio Engineering
-Optoelectronics
-Solid-State Electronics
Engineering and Applied Science
-Aeronautics
- Computation and Neural Systems
-Environmental Science and Engineering
-Materials Science
-Structural Mechanics</p>

<hr>

<p>Berkeley offers the following undergrad majors:</p>

<p>-Computer Science
-Computational Engineering Science
-Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences (Electrical and Computer Engineering, Computer Science and Engineering)</p>

<p>Berkeley offers the following graduate majors:
-Computer Science, M.S., Ph.D.
-Civil and Environmental Engineering
-Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences
-Industrial Engineering and Operations
Research
-Materials Science and Engineering
Mechanical Engineering
-Nuclear Engineering</p>

<hr>

<p>No graduate degrees in computer engineering at either school, and Berkeley is the only one that offers an undergrad degree in computer engineering. So, that leads me to believe that computer engineering is almost a dead end pathway if I want to go to graduate school? So, I should start considering electrical engineering?</p>

<p>So, right now I'm thinking that I can't make it into Stanford, but that I have a chance at Berkeley. So, what schools should I apply to? Right now I'm thinking:</p>

<p>Cal Poly (Safety)
Berkeley (Goal)
Stanford/CalTech (Dream)</p>

<p>If I were to be accepted into Cal Poly and Berkeley, you'd recommend that I attend Berkeley? So, then I should work on my Bachelor's. Should I then at that point continue towards my Master's there, or should I try transferring to Stanford? </p>

<p>What are my odds of 1. Making it into Berkeley as an undergraduate student 2. Transferring to Stanford as a graduate student? </p>

<p>When should I decide whether to go the full monty with Berkeley or go half way with them and then transfer to Stanford (I'm not sure if I have to commit to Berkeley's B.S./M.S. program immediately, or if I decide later on; if it's immediately, then I have to make my choice of transferring or not rather quickly, otherwise I think I could decide where to go after being at Berkeley for a couple years)?</p>

<p>MUCH thanks in advance for helping me out with this stuff. You guys know so much!</p>

10

<p>
[QUOTE]
So, it'll be pretty hard to get into Stanford for me?

[/QUOTE]

Well yeah a 2100 SAT is pretty low for Stanford and your AP scores are low. You'll need good SAT II scores to stand a shot. You do have a chance if you get killer recs and if you write great essays. I don't know much about your ECs so I can't tell you anything about them.</p>

11

<p>It's too early to speculate on graduate school admissions. You just have to do well in undergrad first.</p>

12

<p>Ah, so what do you think my odds are of just getting into Berkeley then?</p>

<p>superwizard - Yeah, 2100 is pretty low. I was shooting for 2200 as my goal, but I guess it's my fault for not really studying/preparing for the exam (It was much longer in person than on paper).</p>

<p>As a side note, do you recommend that I check out a specific SAT book for the next time I take them (The official book?)? The first/only time I took them I used an old, discarded SAT book I got from my high school library (Thomson Peterson's SAT Success 2003 edition, copyright 2002). I skimmed the reading/math sections a bit and did example problems; then I took the online practice exam and went to bed. All of this was done the day before the SATs, but I honestly don't think that made a difference. I believe I sat an SAT resource post on here, so I'll look into that for some advice.</p>

13

<p>Cal's EECS is the degree I think you want to go for and you indicate they have both UG and grad so Cal s/b on your list. It's very highly ranked. So are the other UCs I mentioned earlier. Make sure you have some safeties since getting into Cal isn't assured. Getting into CalTech and Stanford would be even harder.</p>

14

<p>Lots of people go to other schools after undergrad for MS and PhD. Some schools allow you to enroll in MS programs your junior year so you can get your MS earlier. If that is what you want, you have to see which schools offer the programs. I think if you want to get an MS in CE it wouldnt hurt to work for a year or two after undergrad and then get a graduate degree. </p>

<p>Northwestern (tho not in Cali) has a really good engineering program where you intern for 3 trimesters during your junior and senior years to gain work experience. </p>

<p>Whats with no computer science classes, yet the drive to be a computer engineer? (just curious</p>

15

<p>Raise your math SAT for a real shot at cal or Stanford.</p>

16

<p>So getting into Cal Poly itself will be far from a safety (I was thinking that Cal Poly would be my guaranteed safety)? Yikes. What about Berkeley?</p>

<p>venkater - Well, I was originally interested in Computer Science my Freshman year of HS. Then after learning that it's a lot of programming stuff and that job stability isn't the best, nor is salary, I started to look at Computer Engineering. Then I took that Industrial Engineering Technology course and had a lot of fun working with PCBs and learning/working with Ohm's Law and what not. I wanted to take more computer oriented classes, but I thought that taking those AP classes would be more important (I AM taking AP Physics though).</p>

17

<p>Azure,</p>

<p>First of all, there is no clear cut of what Computer Engineering is, it is pretty much the intersection between EE and CS. You can always enrol as an EE student and then take enough CS classes to qualify you as a computer engineer.</p>

<p>I think you have a pretty decent chance to get to Berkeley if you are a Californian resident. I would agree that with your current profile, Cal Poly seems to be a safety for you. I believe you may also want to apply for Harvey Mudd, another top school in California; it is harder to get into than Berkeley though.</p>

<p>Now, applying and enrolling are two different things, I believe you should ramify your application to as many schools as possible.</p>

<p>Now between Berkeley and CalPoly, I would recommend Berkeley for undergraduate study, but note that Berkeley EECS is much more difficult and rigorous than Cal Poly. </p>

<p>As I mentioned previously, getting into Masters program at Berkeley is more difficult than Stanford. Hence provided that you maintain a good GPA at Berkeley, you have the highest chance to get into Stanford Masters program compared to the other two top schools.</p>

18

<p>CalPoly SLO is a sure safety. If you do your essays properly and don't screw up, then you have a nearly 100% chance of getting in. I say 'nearly' because there is a chance that a UFO will come by and abduct you between now and then :P
But really, your stats would put you near the top at CalPoly, and I can't see why you wouldn't get in.</p>

<p>UCB - you'd get in almost for sure.
UCB Engineering - this is where it gets tough. I'd say that you have a good chance, about 50-50. It's hard to say.
Caltech - reach
Stanford - reach, even moreso</p>

<p>If I were you, I'd apply to Stanford and Caltech, but not expect to get in. If you do get in, that's great, but I think you'll be going to a UC (which is not a bad thing at all). I would apply to UCSD as well, as it has a good engineering program as well, and then have CalPoly as a safety, although UCSD could be a high safety as well.</p>

<p>Stanford
Caltech
Harvey Mudd
UCB Engineering
UCSD Engineering
CalPoly SLO</p>

19

<p>My friend (Currently a senior at UCSB) told me that I should apply for a tough college under a very lenient major, and then switch majors to something I want right away (Obviously making sure that the university in question will allow you sufficient time to change your major). He told me that he knew several friends that did this (Applied to a school and majored under dance or something, and then when admitted they changed to engineering or whatever it was they wanted). What's your opinion of this?</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
UCB - you'd get in almost for sure.
UCB Engineering - this is where it gets tough. I'd say that you have a good chance, about 50-50. It's hard to say.
Caltech - reach
Stanford - reach, even moreso

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Berkeley EECS is the most selective, it is more likely to be a reach for the OP.
Nonetheless Berkeley CS under Art and Letter dept will be more like a match. To revise the list above (from the hardest to the easiest):</p>

<p>Caltech
Stanford
EECS Berkeley
Harvey Mudd + Berkeley Engineering
Berkeley CS under Arts
UCSD
CalPoly</p>

<p>
[quote]
My friend (Currently a senior at UCSB) told me that I should apply for a tough college under a very lenient major, and then switch majors to something I want right away (Obviously making sure that the university in question will allow you sufficient time to change your major). He told me that he knew several friends that did this (Applied to a school and majored under dance or something, and then when admitted they changed to engineering or whatever it was they wanted). What's your opinion of this?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's not exactly true. At Stanford for example, this can be much more easily done than at Berkeley. It is really hard for example to switch into Berkeley engineering from non-engineering depts.</p>