<p>There are some colleges that have a “one strike you’re out” policy on drinking and drugs. Otterbein in Columbus comes to mind, a couple more were mentioned in a book I just read. You might consider one of those if it’s really a key requirement.</p>
<p>excerpt from a letter from stanford encouraging parents to be involved.</p>
<p>"XXXX said many of Stanford’s peer institutions engage parents through letters or web pages. To the best of his knowledge, only Stanford has created a parent committee to specifically advise administrators about how to curb risky drinking.</p>
<p>Surveys have traditionally shown that Stanford students drink less than their collegiate counterparts nationwide. But all that is changing, XXXX said, for Stanford and for its peer institutions. Surveys now show that the drinking challenges among Stanford students are very similar to those of college students nationwide."</p>
<p>
Well, I don’t know. I think it’s more important to understand what students at the school actually do. A larger school, even in a more isolated location, may have lots of things to do on campus. (Again–Yale as an example–it’s in a city, but I don’t think students are likely to go off campus to escape drinking, because the non-drinking activities are on campus.) I’d consider asking this: what are the cool activities on campus that tons of people do, and that people get excited about? If its acapella, or drama, or sports, or politics, that’s good–if it’s Greek rush, or certain big rager parties, perhaps less good.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Maybe, Penn’s reputation is that it is fratty, the biggest party Ivy, and full of rich kids who wear designer clothing. Even though only 30% or so are in frats and sororities, it seems more frat oriented. I think the majority of students’ families at Penn make over 250k+ a year. Not saying that other Ivies are not full of rich kids too, but the vibe is that Penn kids like to show off more. Again, this is just the reputation. I didn’t go there but this is what Penn alumni have mentioned.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.adminplan.northwestern.edu/ir/sspg/cirp/TFS_2011_PDF_PROFILE.pdf[/url]”>http://www.adminplan.northwestern.edu/ir/sspg/cirp/TFS_2011_PDF_PROFILE.pdf</a></p>
<p>Scroll down to Penn’s data. My mistake, about half the class (49%) have parents who earn 150k or more. Roughly 30% of the class have parents who earn 250k or more. The vast majority earn 100k or more. Again, my comment is just about Penn’s reputation in the Northeast. Reputation wise, Harvard-they never party since they’re always studying, Brown-stoners, Penn-party Ivy with fratty types, and Cornell-depressed but has the nicest people.</p>
<p>^Not seeing it. That’s NU, btw.</p>
<p>Penn’s CDS for 2011-12 shows 1126 of 2370 freshman receiving aid- just under half, so the implication is well under 150k for those. </p>
<p>And, Penn itself states 25% of the kids are active in frats- even if we assume some unusually large number of non-affiliated kids want to go to frat parties and get raucous, out of 10,000 undergrads, that still leaves thousands to make that dozen or two best buds- or even a “community” of friends.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can only agree about the stereotypes of Brown based on what I’ve heard from Brown alum friends/colleagues. According to them, it shares many similarities with my midwest LAC. </p>
<p>Don’t know too much about Penn, but Harvard folks never partying because they study all the time? Cornell having depressed buy having the nicest people??? The latter two doesn’t sound right based on what I know from actually visiting/taking classes at Harvard and from having a few relatives who are Cornell alums…including one who’s there now. </p>
<p>Harvard students from what I’ve seen are balanced. They study, but also know how to maintain a balance and have a good time. However, like Columbia students, most of the partying takes place off-campus in areas more amenable to partying…like BU/MIT, off-campus apartments in Cambridge/Boston or downtown Boston. </p>
<p>The stereotype of students studying all the time would be far more fitting of MIT students…cept they know how to party considering they throw some of the best college parties in the Boston area when I lived there in the late '90s-mid’00s. </p>
<p>Cornell students being depressed, but very nice. Oh, my Cornell alum cousins and HS classmates would be ROTFLOLing upon hearing that. </p>
<p>General impression I get is that students work hard/play hard…and the work part can get extremely cutthroat because of tough grading, heavy grueling workloads, and the large numbers of aspiring pre-meds. </p>
<p>They certainly wouldn’t describe themselves nor their Cornell classmates as “nice” or “depressed”. Atmosphere’s way too competitive and students too keyed up, enjoying that atmosphere too much, and having too much of a sense of humor about it all.</p>
<p>
But this is not the whole story. I like the idea that you only need a dozen good friends, but I think a lot of people might prefer a school where they’re not in a tiny minority. Not to pick on Penn, but I think 25% active in frats is a big number, and as I noted upthread, the frats (or at least some of them) are right in the middle of campus. So I’d want to know how much of social life revolves around them.</p>
<p>Brian1 - were you referring to the “University of Pennsylvania” because the last I checked “Penn State” was not an Ivy League School…</p>
<p>Poster “lookingforward” - thank you very much for a perfectly worded and informative (and very correct, in my opinion) post, and you hit what I was seeking right on the head! :-)</p>
<p>HarvestMoon1 - thank you for your informative post! (And may I add that you have a very interesting username)</p>
<p>Emoryswimmom who rarely posts - thank you also for posting this time!</p>
<p>I AM VERY CONFUSED BY THE FEW POSTERS WHO MADE STATEMENTS SIMILAR TO BELOW: - COULD THEY OR OTHERS PLEASE RESPOND TO MY QUESTION/COMMENT BELOW IT? Thanks.</p>
<p>“Lifelearner, not all schools offer “wellness” or sober housing, but we have been told by several people that you do not want your child in that type of housing unless he or she is a recovering addict. The reason is that some parents insist that their kids live in this type of housing as a condition of going to college, and there are usually more people with alcohol problems in these dorms. You’re better off taking your chances with the regular dorms.”</p>
<p>Ok, let’s say we narrow it down to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and Yale (again, just for “argument’s sake”) — Seriously, how may “recovering addicts” even get INTO these schools? Am I being naive in thinking the number is exceedingly small (like you could count the numbers on one hand or one finger?) - what am I missing? Knowing just HOW competitive admission is nowadays, I think I would be impressed by a “recovering addict” who managed to get in (assuming they didn’t “just get in” due to a phenomenal essay about their addiction and overcoming such). :-O</p>
<p>DeskPotato - You stated what I seek PERFECTLY!!! Yes, yes, that’s what we seek. Your daughter’s college sounds very interesting. Would you be willing to share where she is at? (I understand if you don’t wish to post it publicly).</p>
<p>MiamiDAP - I can vouch that these schools unfortunately, DO exist! Yes, it sounds extreme but when frats on campus are essentially the ONLY option and there is just a small student center with one pinball machine and an old broken ping-pong table in the basement - and it’s a college that is NOT near a great town, meaning students rarely, if ever, venture off more than 2 blocks from campus (to local pizzeria), then yes, it’s a terrible experience for a student who is simply NOT into Greek life, loud, raucous parties with tons of drinking, etc. Yes, these schools (some with fantastic academics believe it or not) absolutely DO exist!</p>
<p>Brian1 - unless you are prepared to offer a “formal definition” of what “rich” is, then please be careful not to stereotype or lump into the category of “rich” anyone who makes at least $250,000. In fact, I know MANY families that fall around that number in household income and they are in fact, the most “screwed” by their financial situation in that they typically qualify for ZERO college aid vs parents that make much less and whose kids get a partial or FULL free ride - especially at Ivies that offer only need based (and not merit) aid. Why is it right that parents who worked their — off to make such an income, have to give just about that amount directly to the colleges? When they do this, maybe their kids are much LESS likely to even be able to afford “designer clothes” than the kids from “poorer” households… sorry, for the rant, but it’s a bit of a “sore point” for many I know who believe that by today’s standards, an income of $250,000 - while good, is FAR from being “wealthy” or “rich”!! Just food for thought, although it digresses from the main discussion at hand.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/weekinreview/15tax250copy.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/weekinreview/15tax250copy.html</a></p>
<p>I go to Vandy and there are plenty of people here who don’t drink or party. And I have a friend at Duke who is a pretty heavy drinker at home but doesn’t drink while at school and has a blast. You’re going to find your niche wherever you go. Just be open minded, and don’t look down on people just because they have different preferences than you, no matter how tempting it is.</p>
<p>Every once in a while the bit comes up about wellness dorms being for recovering addicts or hard partiers whose parents insist, thinking it will change their ways. That’s all it is, imo/ime, a “bit” that floats, like many other “truths.” You have to see what a college offers, how it defines that environment, how large that space is (dorm or floor, multiple choices, etc,) whether it has a housing staff member in residence, and so on. Even, sometimes, where it’s located on campus. Many colleges do have theme housing of one sort or another, often based on interests, wellness or quiet are just examples. Depends on the school. Look at the college and its housing options.</p>
<p>"Ok, let’s say we narrow it down to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and Yale (again, just for “argument’s sake”) — Seriously, how may “recovering addicts” even get INTO these schools? Am I being naive in thinking the number is exceedingly small (like you could count the numbers on one hand or one finger?) - what am I missing? "</p>
<p>Even leaving aside the fact that narrowing your list to such elite schools is a big mistake, of course there are going to be recovering addicts or at the very least kids w drinking or drug problems at these schools (and other top schools). Really, these are teenagers. Some families and teens have drinking problems. Just because they are smart doesn’t change that.</p>
<p>It seems a little naive to “worry about drinking culture” -that is, worry that college freshmen will drink -and then be shocked that some of them would have drank to excess in high school. There will be kids who didn’t drink in hs who will use the freedom of college to drink to excess --and there will be kids who did drink in hs who will use the freedom of college to drink to excess (and whose parents may insist on substance free housing).</p>
<p>Have fun with this. [Top</a> Party Schools and Colleges for 2011 and 2012](<a href=“http://www.collegeatlas.org/top-party-schools.html]Top”>Top Party Schools in the U.S. for 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, and 2014 | College Atlas)
I’m not a fan of so-called universal rankings, but it gives some perspective- maybe. Maybe not. Not sure how much was based on student self-reporting. (Wesleyan is stone cold sober? Anyone been to Middletown? It’s not that cultural escape some think helps prevent boredom drinking. But, as far as I know, plenty going on on campus.)</p>
<p>But, there’s also something called the Core Alcohol and Drug Survey, from Southern Illinois Univ, which surveys use at a variety of colleges (and, I believe, includes incidents per x students-?). At first glance, not seeing updates for the target schools.</p>