Need help with college list, several limitations

College Search & Selection
41

I’m not really sure about his essay writing skills, it definitely isn’t one of our school’s strongest points. When they took the ACT at school they also did the writing portion and he made a 6 on that, which doesn’t seem particularly exceptional to me. As far as recommendation letters, I feel that most of the teachers would be likely to give him a good recommendation but I’m not sure how extraordinary their letters will be. After all, most of the students at our school just go to state schools that are not that difficult to get into, so other than writing letters for scholarship applications they probably don’t have as much experience as teachers at schools where the students regularly apply to top schools.

I calculated his superscore and it is 25, so only a point higher than his 2 composite scores of 24. He is registered to take the SAT in August and I considered having him take the ACT again in September. His SAT fee voucher covers 2 tests plus up to 6 subject tests taken on 2 different test dates, the problem is fitting all of that in before the deadlines.

The problem that I am having(other than him getting his test scores up) is that he is very resistant to going anywhere far away and there just aren’t many schools in our region that give great financial aid and they require much higher stats for significant merit aid. He is somewhat interested in Vanderbilt, but his chances of getting in there are so low. Most of his classmates are just looking to go to a public school in our region, other than some of his friends that are hoping for a basketball scholarship which would likely be to a smaller school.

My ex-father-in-law is pushing him to join the national guard or something like that and he thinks that would solve the problem of paying for college. I really don’t think that he is suited for that or that it is a very good solution. He applied for Questbridge last year(didn’t get in) and when I was talking to his guidance counselor recently and mentioned it, I wound up having to explain it to him because he had never heard of it.

I think he is really confused and discouraged, not to mention overwhelmed at this point. It seems that he is going by the fact that his friends aren’t worried about this stuff that much and just wants to follow what everyone else is doing. Though there are plenty of poor students at our school, his friend group are the ones that excel academically and athletically as well as having families that are much better off financially than we are, so even though they are similar in many ways, they have more flexibility to choose where they want to go to college.

42

I just wanted to give an update.

This is his senior year schedule:

Yearbook staff(not sure why they stuck him in there, but he couldn’t find any better alternatives so he is staying in it)
Mechanics of Agriculture(not sure if that is the correct name, but it involves welding and such)
12th grade English
Govt/Econ
Physics
Precalculus
Introduction to Pharmacy

Definitely not in line with what some students have, but about as good as it gets at our school.

He is registered to take the SAT August 25th and ACT September 8th.
Based on his SAT practice tests on Khan he is still testing in the same range as his previous ACT scores. He had plenty of time, as opposed to the ACT, so I’m thinking he just doesn’t have the knowledge base for some of the material. I know that he missed some on the reading section because of words that he was not familiar with, he only reads what he is required to read so I guess his vocabulary is not as extensive as some. He definitely seems to be stuck in a rut on his test scores.

We had a senior parent meeting last night and I am overwhelmed at the amount of things to be done and paid in the next few months, and that didn’t include the things like testing, applications, essays, etc.

43

Good to see your update!

It’s a lot but you’ll get there!

Three pieces of advice:

  1. He should go ahead and start on all the background and informational pieces of his Common App now (ECs, etc.) and finish his Common App essay asap (Oct 1 is good target date). so that he can turn to supplemental essays after that. (CC has an essay section where you can read more about effective common app essays. The bottom line is essays should reveal something about the student not already covered in things like ECs – giving the admissions staff chance to learn more about the student (who they are or how they see the world) in a personal, authentic way. Using a ‘small but detailed’ experience or story as a way to launch the essay can be effective.)

  2. As you finalize the list of colleges where he’s applying, start a spreadsheet with the due dates (including early action deadlines if some offer that) and check boxes for what needs to be submitted (application, test scores, transcript, and recommendations, generally.) Note that sometimes scholarship consideration deadlines are earlier than the general deadline. Then he can ‘chunk’ his applications between Oct and January – starting with those that are due first, of course. My D last year found it helpful to be focusing on 3 or so at a time and then moving on.

  3. Stay on top of the guidance counselor’s office to make sure they are submitting recommendations and transcripts. In my D’s school she had to fill out a slip of paper and give them like $5 for each college. Your son submits test scores directly to the college. Our school gave us access to a website called Naviance that tracked when those items were sent by the school, but if not, Common App lets you track what’s been received by each college. Most colleges give a little leeway for transcript and recommendations to come in a little after the applications deadline so don’t panic if something is a little slow in coming (but read each college’s fine print, of course).

You probably knew most this but just in case!

Keep us posted!

44

So, he made an 1170 on the SAT(same as 24 on ACT) and made 23 on the ACT. He took the SAT again last weekend but of course no scores for that yet. Questbridge application was submitted at the last minute, don’t know how that will go but felt better about it than last time. After much effort and explanation we were able to get the school to create a school profile, and spent more time answering questions thoughtfully. On that note, tomorrow is the deadline to rank colleges for the college match and he still doesn’t have his list completed.

He announced recently that he is going to become a nurse anesthetist and of course several of the questbridge schools don’t offer nursing, though I still think that they are worth considering. After all, many kids change their mind about majors and even if he doesn’t, a full scholarship to a top institution is certainly worth considering. This is his list so far, based on nursing program and location, but he really should add some LAC’s, just not sure which ones.

Vanderbilt, Emory, Duke, University of Virginia, University of Pennsylvania, University of Chicago, Notre Dame(just because he loves it).

I’m just not sure what his chances of being matched at any of those schools are, even if he did become a finalist.

He received emails from some lesser known regional schools waiving fee and essay requirements so we went ahead and submitted apps for those, most only took about 5 minutes, so he has some admits but no idea of financial packages yet. There are some good nursing schools in our region, but it will depend on the financial aid package. Our EFC is $0, but none of these schools promise to meet need.

Not QB partners, but if he doesn’t get matched then he might apply to St. Olaf and possibly Case Western, also UNC-Chapel Hill.

Any opinions on other QB partners that might be a good fit?

45

Is he applying to local community colleges he could attend and live at home as Well? Most offer nursing.

46

I would also seriously consider reviewing the enlistment route-they offer a lot of medical specialties, he would have a chance to explore the field, and very good benefits for college, plus a chance to mature and become independent.

47

Military service should not be seen as a financial service. It’s a serious commitment and it’s NOT a scholarship service for college. In addition, if one wants to be a military nurse, ROTC is more flexible.

Case Western is very score-focused when it comes to scholarships so it probablye won’t be affordable. He’s unlikely to be admitted to UNC Chapel Hill (18% cap on OOS applicants).
St Olaf is a real possibility.

Davidson has Military Science (ROTC) which he could pair with anything else (neuroscience?) If he can get interested in Neuroscience, he could add Vassar, Macalester, and Grinnell. Considering your financial circumstances, you should insist he add some of these. If he were to get a full scholarship it’d make your life so much better - so, have him add “mom picks” :).

BTW I think that Dickinson, too, has ROTC.
Has he applied to Berea College? it’s got nursing and it’s reserved to working class applicants. They offer a full tuition scholarship for all admitted students + the opportunity to work to cover room and board.

48

@HeartofDixie
Howard and Morehouse is a great fit for him. He meets their avg test scores and exceeds the GPA avg. I would suggest looking at HBCU’s. Again if he’s having trouble getting into questbridge, he’ll have a very difficult time getting into these schools, as they are all HIGH Reaches. Also test optional schools are an option, Bowdoin, Weslyan University, Wake Forest etc.

49

The local community college is 45 minutes away, but yes, the county career coach said they are going to be applying at school, apparently they are having everyone apply so that they have that as an option. If he winds up having to live at home and commute, he would probably opt for UNA which is only about 10 minutes farther than the community college and offers a bachelor in nursing.

As far as ROTC, I think that would be fine if he had a strong desire to serve in the military but I don’t think it is a commitment that should be made solely as a way to pay for college.

50

Berea is definitely on the list, as is St. Olaf. The focus is on QB schools at the moment since the ranking deadline is tomorrow, after that it will be time to work on the others. Much of the common app is filled out except that he hasn’t yet done the essay, the only apps that have been submitted were simple and didn’t require an essay. HBCU’s are still a possibility, we have just been focused on the QB and meet full need schools while mixing in some lesser colleges just to see what they offer. Every time it seems that I have him focused and cooperative, next thing you know he is off on another tangent, it seems like whomever he is getting advice from is working directly against me.

All of the costs associated with senior year are really hitting hard, so yes a full scholarship would be awesome, it doesn’t help that I am now having to replace a water heater. When it rains it pours.

51

@heartofdixie, I am reading this thread for the first time. I have been through a similar journey just last year as a single mother, low income, etc etc. My son is now a freshman at Wake Forest (very generous aid) but we went through the same options as you did - QuestBridge, looking at schools that meet 100% of need, that sort of thing.

I do hope that QuestBridge helps out. But please encourage him to keep his options open and look beyond QB schools. QB is very competitive. My son was chosen as a QB College Prep Scholar (Junior year of HS) and also a QB College Match Finalist - and 1370 SAT - but even then, he would not have matched with Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, or Duke. Just make sure your son fully understands his chances about getting matched with a school through QB - For a QuestBridge ‘match’ scholarship (full ride) he would first have to be selected as a QuestBridge Finalist (which you hope he will…) , ‘then’ the schools he listed as ‘hopeful matches’ would have to select him from among all other Questbridge Finalists that listed that school as a hopeful match. Each school has a limited number of QB match scholarships they offer. Vanderbilt may give only 20 QB match scholarships but they may have been on the match list of 400 of the QB Finalists. Meaning your son would have to stand over and above most of the other QB Finalists - which are all pretty strong kids. The schools are looking for exceptional leadership and extracurriculars, in addition to the academics.

Only about 15-20% of QuestBridge Finalists will ‘match’ with a QB school for a full scholarship. The remaining QB Finalists (80-85%) then can apply to those same QB schools in the Regular Decision process using their QB app -and at no cost - but that puts them among all other Regular Decision candidates for that school (I.e. Vanderbilt, Notre Dame. Duke…) The QB Finalist applying Reg Decision may have a ‘slight advantage’ over other RD applicants, but not if their SAT scores are far below average for that school. Vandy’s average SAT is 1530 and Duke’s is 1540. We knew that even with QuestBridge, my son wouldn’t be able to get in with a 1370 SAT. So I just want to encourage you to have your son keep his other options open.

I don’t want to discourage you, but I also don’t want spring to come and your son has reached so high that he doesn’t have safety options lined up, should those "high reach’ schools not come through. Many people have posted about some great schools that give strong aid and I would keep looking at those. You can always google the name of any college along with the words “Prep Scholar” and Google will pull up a link to that school’s page on the Prep Scholar website , showing the average SAT and ACT scores of that college. If your son is more than 50-75 points below the average SAT, it is going to be quite a leap, even with QuestBridge.

We have many, many friends that have chosen community college for the first two years, just to keep the costs down. They then transfer into state universities and end up with the same degree at a ‘bigger name’ state school as someone that attended all 4 years. If a student is at community college, the coursework is very manageable (compared to a really difficult school) so he could hold a job 15-20 hours a week, live at home, save as much as possible, and continue his degree at an affordable state school two years down the road. Based on your income, he will be getting a Pell Grant for around $4000-5000 a year, which should cover a lot of his tuition at a community college.

I am glad to answer questions if I can help. I am hoping for great things with his QuestBridge process. Encourage him to cast a wide net. I admire how much research both you and he have done to prepare him. He is certainly lucky to have you in his corner, helping him find alternatives and options!

52

@HeartofDixie
It sounds like you don’t want to hear this but, I feel compelled to say it. I think your son should stay home and go to a local community college. I say this because you’ve continuously described your son as directionless, and a bit haphazard. Combine this with his ACT score, and even if he does get into any of these to schools. I’m not sure he’ll do the work.

53

I realize his chances with Questbridge aren’t great, but I think it’s worth the effort, even if he doesn’t get in or get matched. If nothing else it is pushing him to explore things previously unknown to him and put in extra effort, which I think will be useful in the long run. He has always been able to be near the top of his class without maximum effort and though he is putting in the work to excel in his classes this year, I think that not being able to just count on applying to a state university and go there is pushing him beyond his normal comfort zone. We are casting a wide net and will then see what the options are when acceptances and financial aid packages are in, wherever he winds up I think he will be better off for going through this experience.

I am also learning a lot, which will be needed since I have 2 more coming up behind him. Maybe my daughter will have better test scores(though she could be weaker in other areas), she made an 18 on the ACT last year in 7th grade through DUKE tip, which I thought was decent for a 12 year old.

54

Exploring options is great so long as you have some matches and safeties on your list. Maybe that is the local community college and UNA, as I didn’t see anything else on your list that looked like a match/safety.

55

There are several admission safeties, not sure that any of them are financial safeties other than living at home and commuting to community college or Northwest. His test scores don’t qualify him for any of the big automatic scholarships, but if any of the places offer him generous financial aid or scholarships then some of those could become possibilities. He has applied to UNA, Jacksonville State, Valdosta State, University of Montevallo, University of West Alabama, and has some more almost ready to submit. It is just going to come down to the available scholarships and financial aid. Alabama, UAB, and UAH, and Samford should be admit safeties, but not sure if they will be affordable.

56

@HeartofDixie

Here’s a financial possibility for your son - Southeastern Louisiana in Hammond. It does not have engineering but does have nursing.

His stats would make him eligible for an out of state tuition waver:

https://www.southeastern.edu/resources/catalogue/2015_2016/acad_regs/waiver/index.html

And his stats would qualify him for the following merit scholarships (scroll down for priority scholarships awarded before 1/15/19 deadline). In-state tuition would be covered and there would be partial support for room/board/books (about 3K). I believe the TOPS award is for Louisiana residents only. That would leave about 6500 left to cover, which could be met by Pell/Federal Student Loan/job

https://www.southeastern.edu/admin/fin_aid/scholarships/

I know an international student who attended Southeastern with a great financial package. She had a terrific experience and got a job within her field shortly after graduation. Hammond is a small town about 1 hour’s drive north of New Orleans.

57

If he’s leaning towards nursing, he should think first about where he wants to live when he graduates. Employers can be very picky about hiring newly graduated nurses; similar to teaching there are regional and even college preferences. For example in our area the good hospitals and healthcare orgs give huge hiring preferences to one of the local nursing programs, will only hire from out of state in certain situations and flat out avoid graduates of another local program. So he should think about where he wants to live and work after graduation and do some research to see which programs those employers hire from.

58

I suggest you stop calling them, and thinking about them, as lesser schools. If your son ends up at one, he shouldn’t feel his school is lesser or bad. Different schools have different strengths, and one of those strengths may be that it’s affordable.

I do not think your son is going to fit in well at many of the schools you have listed. At St. Olaf and Vandy, writing is very important and if his ACT writing score was a 6, he’s going to struggle to complete writing assignments. My STEM daughter who struggles with writing had a 10 (my daughter who doesn’t struggle with writing had a 10 too). The writing assignments were still a challenge for her in college. She was offered spots at LACs (many of the favorites here on CC) but she knew she’d HATE those schools as she doesn’t like reading that much, doesn’t like writing, doesn’t like discussing literature or politics or history or art. She likes STEM courses and put up with the few required humanities and writing courses required for her degree. In her final semester, she needed 4 credits in anything, and took tennis and Spanish rather than another English or writing course.

I also disagree that freshman and sophomore courses for engineering majors are ‘weed out’ courses. The classes are tough, but if the student puts in the work the classes can be successfully completed. The colleges aren’t making the classes harder just to weed students out; the course are just hard. My daughter went to what many on CC would consider a lower ranked engineering program and my nephew to a higher ranked one, and they had the same calc books, covered the same material. She put in the time and got an A, he drank a lot of beer and had to repeat Calc I. You can say his was a ‘weed out’ program and hers was easier, but it was the same book, the same material. She graduated and has a job and he’s in grad school.

59

The “weed out” image probably comes from some popular state flagships where frosh engineering students are not assured of getting into their majors, but must meet a high GPA requirement or face competitive admission to get into their majors.

60

I agree that the coursework and expectations at the schools like Vanderbilt / Norte Dame / Duke would likely be far over and above what he has experienced to date. It’s not a matter of whether he’s smart enough or would ‘buckle down and try harder.’ It just seems that his high school education to date has not prepared him to compete at that level.Thats not his fault and yes - he’s been near the top of his class - but not in a rigorous college prep environment. It’s like trying to run a nationally known marathon and your background has been in the local neighborhood running club. It’s not just ‘whether he could get in’ - could he keep up?