<p>Most of you are probably way too familiar with my son, who is starting his sophomore year at our local community college - he has Asperger's, ADD & Executive Function Disorder.</p>
<p>He is taking Biology, which includes a lab. The accommodations he asked for were a note taker and extra time on tests, as necessary.</p>
<p>Son had his first class yesterday. He says she's a crazy lady. The syllabus is filled with threatening phrases like "No curve. No makeups. NO KIDDING." She let them all know that if they miss a test or lab, even because of a death in the family, no makeups.</p>
<p>This is scaring me to death, because if Son needs anything, he needs grace and flexibility. Can you think of anything else we can ask for, other than to beg her to be nice?</p>
<p>He is worried about labs, because his hand-eye coordination is poor. I feel like we could ask for pairing with a more dexterous partner, but I don't have a clue how the teacher or Son would figure out who that might be.</p>
<p>That was my first thought - bail!!! We have a meeting with the disablities office tomorrow morning anyway, and hopefully the lady can tell us if there are more flexible teachers who have openings in their sections.</p>
<p>Many professors are uber strict on the syllabus, but once they realize the class is “under control” they relax a bit. </p>
<p>I am all for taking full advantage of the add/drop period. </p>
<p>If your son is still figuring the art and science of being a college student, then perhaps a lab science class is not the way to go. Lab classes are tricky because they are two courses in one, the lab TA is not usually the lecture instructor, and getting the “wrong” data can be very problematic when writing lab reports. In my experience, the lab TA never assigned partners. </p>
<p>Has your son taken a freshmen composition course? A good one tends to have more structure than other college courses, because the instructor is all about “the writing process.”</p>
<p>Is ratemyprofessors.com active for your son’s school? It’s not perfect, because it tends to attract polarized reviews of insturctors (ok it DOES), but it might be better than nothing.</p>
<p>Just looked her up on ratemyprofessors.com…Five pages of comments! Thanks so much, college_ruled.</p>
<p>Actually most of the comments are very positive - had something like a 4.3 average. They say she is passionate about Biology - sort of Miss Frizzle-ish. Sounds like if he studies her outlines and notes, he’ll do well on the tests. Maybe I’ll have him ask her what to do about a lab partner? (She teaches the lab.)</p>
<p>The disabilities office should provide your son with a letter to give to the professor. Your son can supplement this with a note from an MD or specialist documenting his disabilities, f he likes, but he should not be obligated to do so as long as the disabilities office has that documentation.</p>
<p>Those accommodations are clear and finite.</p>
<p>Be aware that at the college level, the issue of legal rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act is very murky, and very different from the high school level. Precedents are being made all the time and case law should build up.</p>
<p>At a community college, I would expect a high level of accommodations. Especially with these very clear, fairly modest requests.</p>
<p>Sometimes schools have volunteer note-takers. If you son chooses, it can be an anonymous matter so that the teacher asks for a student volunteer to copy notes taken, but that volunteer does not need to know it is for your son.</p>
<p>This teacher may end up as a very clear instructor, in her presentation and expectations. You never know, maybe she will end up being a great resourse. Or, maybe not! I am hoping, for you and your son, that the former is true…</p>
<p>Have you looked online to see what documentation the disabilities office will require to grant accommodations. When my son was in HS he needed to take a Math placement test in order to sign up for a dual enrollment class at the HS. We had to fill out some paperwork and provide documentation from the psychologist and psychiatrist. I basically had son take everything we had including his IEP paperwork from elementary school and his 504 contract from the HS. When my son took summer school classes at the CC his accommodations were still in place.
At his 4 yr university we arranged a meeting parents and student with the disabilities director upon move-in. We had already filled out the request and submitted the latest testing and once again I brought all the paperwork son had ever had. I figured you can’t have too much documentation. His college also asked what son was requesting. The psychiatrist son was seeing at the time provided a list of things son might need. It is better to ask upfront for anything you think your son might need now or down the road. At the beginning of each semester my son goes to the disabilities office and gives them his schedule and list of professors. The disabilites office contacts the professors with all the options my son might need. My son must take the step of asking each professor. In 4 yrs he has only had 2 professors who approached my son first. He has to ask for the extras they don’t volunteer them.
I just pulled out my son’s form that his Dr filled out for the school. The school form asked for the professional who made the diagnosis. It asked for a synopsis of the diagnosis and recommended accommodations.
My son’s diagnosis was listed as ADD, Disorder of Written Expression, Executivie function disorder.
It asked for the medical opinion what functional limitations does this student encounter as a result of his disability. Please provide specific information. In our case -slow reading, difficulty identifying central concepts, difficulty organizing thoughts and communicating on paper, limited organizational skills, impaired sense of time, poor concentration…</p>
<p>Things his Dr requested in order to support academic success-
Supplemental Aids and Services- Note taker, Two sets of books when necessary, Homework assignments given in writing, Weekly report to educational tutor and parents, preferential setting, per choice of student
Instructional modifications and Supports-
Student and Educational tutor provided with lesson plans and explanation of critical concepts and educational goals prior to class
Allow previewing of concepts, content and vocabulary
Assignments and Homework-
Extra time for completion
Substitute projects for written work, at the discretion of tutor and student
Provide study guides and questions
Provide written copy of board/work notes
Reduce or shorten written or reading assignments
Grading modifications-
Grammar or spelling mistakes should not be considered in grading
No deduction of points if student does not “show his work” in math or science courses
Testing modifications-
Oral exam with oral response at discretion of student
Extra time for completion of exams
Shortened test in math and science
Use of study sheets, note or open book
Include class participation in evaluation
Alternative to tests- projects, demonstartions
Individual or small group testing
accept close approximations
allow test to be taken in quiet location</p>
<p>I just listed all of them. Son did not ask his professors or use most of the above but it was an option.
My suggestion is to go with all the information you have ever had.
Also at both the CC and 4 yr university they had special tutors for disability students or they were entitled to extra or priority hours at the regular tutoring center.</p>
<p>Missypie, I remember your earlier posts about your son. He already requested the most important accommodations, but what he can’t exactly ask for is for the that professor to be nice. That said, you hope to get that for any student, those w/ Asperger’s/ADD or not.</p>
<p>I remember a Biology teacher I had once. The room was packed, but she laid down the law from the get-go: “I don’t care if you drop out, but if you stay, you’re either going to learn or you’re going to fail.” Whoa! (She was Mexican, but learned to speak English while in Germany, so had a German accent.) Learn, I did, but the class dwindled down to 1/8th its original size. Turns out, she was really quite pleasant and had a wonderful sense of humor. There was a lot of material to cover, so she was occasionally nonsense, so her speel was somewhat necessary, especially since this too was at a Community College. (I got an A!)</p>
<p>Looking back, I was probably the type that hung around and showed I care about doing well. That, plus I studied my tail off. Your son will do well if he does that too. And about the extra accommodations? If he can talk with her, that’s going to help immeasurably.</p>
<p>I don’t suggest your son go overboard with those accommodations (re: post #7). Extra time is one thing, (and even that requires a lot of juggling, since he’ll need to take the exam elsewhere and that’s usually in a different building with personnel the teacher doesn’t often work with), but sometimes certain professors feel the student isn’t really able to “cut it” if he/she needs much more than that. Be sure your son gets to know his professors well, so they’ll understand.</p>
<p>I am not sure why it bothers you so much when the syllabus says “no curve, no makeups, no kidding”. If there is no curve, your son will be graded for his achievement not in comparison to others in the class. No makeups–the professor is trying to get the kids to attend all sessions and take the class seriously. This does not sound like a disabiity/accomodations issue. Sounds like the teacher is no nonsense, let’s learn kind of teacher. Since rate my professors web site likes her, why not give her a chance? Your son will need to do his work–this is what you want him to do, right? Why seek so many accomodations?</p>
<p>I think there are some accomodations which are truly necessary, but not sure what Missiepie is so worried about.</p>
<p>We have had extremely positive and somewhat negative experiences with teachers similar to the one you describe. When I met with ShawSon’s HS honors chemistry teacher, she was clearly skeptical about the fact that a kid could be so bright and need meaningful accommodations (e.g., double time on tests, note taker though he didn’t ask for it, doing fewer problems in problem sets, not grading spelling unless he had the chance to have it edited or spell-checked, …). Per limabean’s thoughts, the double time required work from the teacher. Her entire first day of class was spent laying down the law on lateness and bathroom passes, etc. No excuses, no ifs ands or buts, etc. She took points off because his lab notebooks weren’t neat (his fine motor coordination has never been good). She took off points for spelling even though IEP said not to because he might write nitrate rather than nitrite and blow things up. He struggled in the beginning of the course and she suggested that he drop down a level (which to ShawSon is like waving a red flag in front of a bull). It turned out he was struggling because instead of memorizing formulas like the other kids, he was trying to derive them from first principles so he understood them (which it turns out meant that he had done 80% of AP Chem on his own). But, she watched him take tests and realized that it really did take him that much time. And he engaged with her about the concepts. She was an incredibly clear explainer. By the end of the year, she became one of his strongest advocates and even wrote to the College Board when we appealed to get 100% extra time on his SATs instead of 50%. By the end of the year, he had the highest grade in the class on tests, but still suffered in the lab grades. She was a martinet (somehow it was part of her persona) but underneath she was a caring, compassionate teacher (if she thought you were really trying and not trying to take advantage of her). So, if said bio teacher is anything like the chem teacher, it would be important to demonstrate lots of diligent effort.</p>
<p>The one accommodation that I suspect would really help your son is if the teacher flagged to someone (other than you son, perhaps) when assignments hadn’t been handed in. I don’t know if they would do this to an administrator at the school.</p>
<p>I’ve taught at a CC, and my syllabus had similar take-no-prisoners language. That was because students would invent all kinds of hard-luck stories. I know, you’re all shocked to hear that there’s an outbreak of relatives dying around midterms. It’s easier to scare off the scammers (NOT implying your son is a scammer!!!), and then make exceptions from the strict rule on a case-by-case basis. Online professor ratings might let you know if this teacher works by similar rules. When I had one carrying-an-A student miss the final because she was so sick she went to the emergency room, I could ask for a doctor’s note and then give her a tougher makeup. </p>
<p>No curve isn’t an issue if students are getting reasonable grades. If students usually get 60-70% and there’s no curve, then that’s a problem. </p>
<p>missypie, what else, if anything, rattled your son?</p>
<p>I’d also suggest keeping a weather eye towards the drop date, and/or the deadline for switching to pass/no pass (if that’s an option).</p>
<p>LimaBeans- I was not suggesting Missypie ask for all the items listed in Post 7. I was just posting the items the psychiatrist had listed. My son did not ask each teacher for all those items. He did go over what he might need for specific classes with the disabilities director. For most classes in his major my son does not even ask for any accommodations. His program is small and by this time his professors know his strengths and weaknesses. My son loves philosophy but is a terrible writer. He has taken quite a number of philosophy courses, for those he asks for accommodations. In almost all those cases the professors have taken into consideration his discussion and classroom participation and given him extreme leeway in grading on written work. For his major he has to take several art history classes. My son has extremely poor memory skills. He failed the first class even with accommodations. He has learned to chose his general ed electives carefully. It helps that for the most part my son has had very small classes.</p>
<p>Missypie- has your son been able to voice what areas he feels he is going to need help in?
Mdcissp- I don’t see Missypie saying her son does not want to do the work. Regarding no make-ups and no curve I think she is concerned not about those specific matters but that the instructor is rigid and not willing to acknowledge that there might be more than one way to accomplish the same task.
Good luck tomorrow.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. There is a science resource center at the school that is supposed to be available for tutoring to anyone needed help, but it turns out that science majors get first dibs and others are turned away. I think I’ll ask that he be able to use the center without being turned away.</p>
<p>Don’t worry too much abuot the syllabus. The teacher’s syllabus can say whatever it wants, but legally required accommodations will override it. To parrot others, students typically turn in their documentation to a campus disabilities officer who, after review, provides the student with some sort of document entitling him to certain accommodations (extra time is the most common). My institution gives the student a card to carry, which lists accommodations. Students are responsible for notifying professors of their needs, but professors MUST provide what’s on the card. So, if because of extra time requirements, your son must take the test at another time in another location, the teacher must let him. </p>
<p>The big difference between high school and college seems to be that high schools can demand a teacher modify curriculum. Colleges do not have to modify - and most won’t. Once in college, the accommodations are intended only to allow equal access.</p>
<p>Back from the meeting. Even though Son has requested a notetaker twice - on the prescribed form - none was granted. When we inquired, DSS lady made sure she told us that they have to HIRE a notetaker, the person has to pass a background check and then their hiring has to go through five - count em - five departments. All this succeeded in convincing Son that he should not be the cause of such trouble and expense and he guessed he could get by without it - until I put my witchy little foot down and instisted on it.</p>
<p>As H said, “when are we going to find the cooperative disablities person?”</p>
<p>missypie, i suspect you are familiar with the differences between an IEP (PL-94) that your son had in HS and a 504 that he’ll get in college. That is, they are required to accommodate him, like provide wheelchair access (I know he doesn’t need that!) or extra time.
Are you certain that having a note-taker is a legal requirement? Even if it is, you’re best to appreciate the hoops the college is taking to help your son. Has your son needed a note-taker for every class, or just this one with a “crazy” professor?</p>
<p>I have been to two colleges and inquired about this at six because notetaking is an issue for me as well, and a notetaker was a standard accommodation. At the two schools I’ve attended they didn’t have to go through nearly as much to hire one, what a mess. If it’s such a drawn out process why don’t they hire them ahead of time? What is a student supposed to do in the meantime? Missypie, maybe your S could use an audio recorder in the meantime, if that would help. I generally use both.</p>
<p>Yeah, it was really unfair for the DSS lady to talk about it being such a long, drawn out process, since he made his first request 5-6 weeks ago. He’s never had a note taker, but two professionals have told him it’s essential for him.</p>
<p>There aren’t really any standard accommodations - it all depends on what’s in the student’s documentation. Often, accommodations that a student had in high school will not be continued in college or new ones might be added. </p>
<p>Notetakers need approval from 5 departments? What’s up with that? We hire a good student in the class (small stipend for the hassle of making copies of the notes). The person with a disability gets to choose whether he wants an anonymous pick up location or if she wants to be identified to the note-taker. “Professional” note-taker is probably never a legal requirement, but I’d think providing notes is fairly common.</p>
It’s easier to scare off the scammers (NOT implying your son is a scammer!!!), and then make exceptions from the strict rule on a case-by-case basis. Online professor ratings might let you know if this teacher works by similar rules. When I had one carrying-an-A student miss the final because she was so sick she went to the emergency room, I could ask for a doctor’s note and then give her a tougher makeup. </p>