<p>I saw you posted a month ago that you had to let Chicago know "today".
Sounds like from that perhaps you didn't want to attend?
all of your choices are very good and you may be happy at any of them- they are generally more rigourous than Kenyon and not as isolated.
But if you had these choices a month ago- what have you been doing since then?</p>
<p>So supporting the arts is okay one doesn't have to have an artistic discipline. Well if you are considering UChicago you must also be aware of the Chicago Art Museum School and SecondCity etc. One thing to consider is that UChicago is not in Chicago the way NYU is in NYC. Chicago Symphony and Lyric Opera....do you plan to attend these? </p>
<p>You really seem to be splitting hairs to me but I would look for a school near a conservatory of some sort. So.....there is a lot of option in Philly by metro from Swatty and close to NYC and DC..seems perfect to me. Cheap and easy access to 3 major arts forums and known for quirky intellectualism.....much more so than Brown.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is causing me to feel concerned. Will I not find quirky, artistic students at Chicago and Swarthmore that are interested in both academics and politics and art?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't have first hand knowledge of Chicago, so I won't address that, but you are being given bad information about Swarthmore.</p>
<p>While it is, indeed, an academically oriented school, the kids are quite quirky. They talk politics all the time (and I'm talking about a much broader definition of politics than silly Demo vs Republican stuff). The engagement in world cultural and political issues is quite striking, both in and out of the classroom. There are small, but active, music theater, and dance departments with excellent facilities and quite a bit of participation in all three.</p>
<p>If you like the scale of an LAC, but want to escape the lilly-white, preppy, heavy drinking scene that defines Kenyon, then Swarthmore would be the perfect choice. The campus is fabulous, the college has and spends huge dollars, and the culture is unique, with an astonishingly strong sense of community and trust in the institution by faculty and students alike. Beyond the diversity stats, it is one of the most inclusive campuses you will find.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you want a larger research university, with the pluses and minuses that entails, then Chicago would clearly be the way to go. Swarthmore is a small, intimate school and what they do could not be scaled up to 2000, 3000, or 4000 students.</p>
<p>I hope I wasn't missleading about Swat. I was trying to parse "artistic". I am still not sure whether it is the campus or the access to arts that was the question..but on either one Swat is the answer....I agree with you.</p>
<p>So what it seems you all are saying is that Swarthmore provides the access to arts and the artistic campus atmosphere more so than Chicago?</p>
<p>"The reason I mentioned Brown is that I have already committed to Brown, but changed my mind to Swarthmore or the University of Chicago. However, I could go to any of the three. I have been accepted into all of them, and have the opportunity to go to any of them. And by artsy, I meant students that are not only interested in academics, but enjoy participating in art too--students that are well-balanced and have multiple interests."</p>
<p>You are going to find some of them at all three places. People generally speaking don't go to Swarthmore or Chicago because they are interested in the arts, or because they are looking for the widest participation opportunities. They just don't, and you'd be fooling yourself, and doing a disservice to the schools if you chose them on that basis. But many ARE interested in the arts, and many find adequate participation opportunities. At all three schools you'll find "quirky". All three campuses will be liberal politically, with at least some activism.</p>
<p>But, you know, by now, you should know more about the relative merits of these three schools than anyone on this list - after all, you've been researching them for 4 or 5 months. </p>
<p>You could, after all, stay at Kenyon....</p>
<p>Yes, I was supposed to let Chicago know a month ago. They gave me an extension. I didn't get off Swarthmore's wait list until two days ago, leading me to this difficult decision that was not applicable at the time fo my original post. Sorry if I confused anyone who read my earlier post.</p>
<p>peacenaturefreak,</p>
<p>Are you just generally an indecisive person? (I don't mean this insultingly--some people have to think things through a lot and have a hard time not second-guessing themselves. I'm one of them!)</p>
<p>If not, is there a reason that you changed your mind about Brown, and couldn't commit to Chicago without an extension? </p>
<p>Maybe the reason you haven't been able to commit is that there is something in you that doubts they are the right choice. In which case, maybe Swarthmore's new offer is a lifesaver and the way you want to go. You can answer this question better than we can. it just seems to me you've already had two fabulous offers on the table, and couldn't say yes--so it makes me wonder if it's simply being gun-shy or something more.</p>
<p>This is starting to smell of Prestige Whore. So......lets insert the word artsy and craft a justification for choosing SWAT over BROWN???</p>
<p>The choice between Chicago and Swarthmore is a very common one -- mostly because these two schools have the reputation of being perhaps the two most "intellectual" schools in the country. Both are quite rigorous and academics are taken seriously.</p>
<p>I would summarize the reasons that kids choose Swarthmore over Chicago as the following:</p>
<p>a) It is an incredibly friendly, cohesive community. There is no "theme housing", very little in the way of cliques, and an overall climate of acceptance.</p>
<p>b) Social responsibility is a part of the school's mission statement and is embedded in everything the school does. These days, that translates to considerable interest in cultures around the world. For example, a popular offering in the music department is the performing Balinese Gamelan percussion ensemble and dance troup. A study-abroad option in the dance department is a program in Ghana studying African dance and drumming.</p>
<p>c) It is, frankly, a very comfortable, seriously nice college experience from a quality of life standpoint. The campus is stunning and safe, yet you have easy access to Philadelphia (and New York and DC) from a train station right on campus. The support mechanisms (Deans, Health Center, counseling, tutoring, professors) are fantastic and friendly. In a nutshell, everything I've seen from a parents' standpoint points to an institution that cares.</p>
<p>I'm sure that students also chose Chicago over Swarthmore, but you would have to ask the Chicago folk to outline those reasons. Overall, I would say that you would be trading off "quality of life" issues for a broader, deeper range of offerings. UChicago has never been known as a terribly "comfortable" place. It's not known to be a real high-scorer on the COFHE undergrad experience surveys.</p>
<p>From studentsreview.com</p>
<p>Swarthmore:
Education Quality B (7.2)
Social Life B- (5.9)
Extracurricular Activities B- (6.1)
University Resource use B (7.3)
Perceived Campus Safety A (8.9)
Surrounding City C+ (5.4)
Campus Aesthetics A (9.5)
Campus Maintenance A- (8.5)</p>
<p>University of Chicago:
Education Quality A- (8.8)
Social Life C+ (5.3)
Extracurricular Activities B (7.1)
University Resource use B+ (7.9)
Perceived Campus Safety B- (6.1)
Surrounding City A (8.9)
Campus Aesthetics A- (8.5)
Campus Maintenance B+ (7.6)</p>
<p>Far greater percentage of students would return to U of C than would return to Swarthmore (not scientific)</p>
<p>For greater (though unscientific) detail see <a href="http://www.studentsreview.com%5B/url%5D">www.studentsreview.com</a></p>
<p>I would choose Brown now that you have mentioned it as an option - definitely get the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>I like all three of these schools a lot, but if you want to find a large group of students that are engaged in interesting non-academic, or non-traditional academic pursuits I'd go with Brown.</p>
<p>Idad:</p>
<p>Come on? StudentReview.com? </p>
<p>Are you counting the Swarthmore comment consisting in its entirety of the three word phrase "Betsy Bolton sux" in that rating? </p>
<p>How 'bout the one that rails about too many leftish Jewish students? A serious review, or perhaps a tongue in cheek satire? </p>
<p>Those two "reviews" alone consitute ten percent of the rating on the website you mention.</p>
<p>Not scientific is putting it mildly. On the COFHE surveys (a 1-4) scale, I believe that "faculty accessibility" gets Swarthmore's highest mark: a 3.7 average. </p>
<p>Here's a brief blurb from the most recent accreditation review that provides some insight into Swarthmore's student satisfaction levels on the COFHE surveys:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The regularly-collected COFHE data have been helpful in confirming our understanding of how successfully the advising process operates at Swarthmore. On the positive side, Swarthmore's students are more satisfied with the advising system here than students at any of the COFHE schools; comparatively, Swarthmore is doing well. On the negative side, *the same COFHE data show that Swarthmore students report feeling more dissatisfied with the advising situation than they are with almost anything else at the College *. </p>
<p>Although 66% of Swarthmore seniors indicated they were "satisfied" or "very satisfied," this was nineteenth out of twenty-six categories.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If advising was 19th out 26 categories, this means that for 18 of the 26 categories of student experience, more than 66% of the student body was at least "satisfied" or "very satisfied" on a 4 point scale. Can you imaging more than 66% of a group of a thousand teenagers being "satisfied" or "very satisfied" about anything?</p>
<p>If I can read anything into your screen name and your posts, UofC should be a distant third choice: Swat or Brown.</p>
<p>BTW, it is just a remarkable coincidence that so many of the StudentsReview reviewers from Swarthmore happen to be 2nd year females with 1310 SATs. That is not exactly a common SAT at Swat. </p>
<p>Amazing that so many different females with 1310 SATs would not only post reviews at the same site, but that they would all be so comprehensively dissatisfied. Even more remarkable that they all give Swarthmore a "C" for educational quality, and in fact they all give the same scores across the board, mostly C's and D's, although they all give a "B" for campus aesthetics (presumably reserving an A for really pretty campuses like SUNY Albany or RPI).</p>
<p>I guess that pretty much proves it. If you are a female with 1310 SATs, Swarthmore isn't the place for you!</p>
<p>Brown grad here.</p>
<p>Brown offers a nice mix because it is in a smaller city but still a city-- with art school next door and lots of offerings. It is definitely an artsy school as well, and the English & writing departments are superb. Brown kids like to have fun (and get drunk too) but also tend to be quite passionately interested in their academic endeavors. No core curriculum = everyone in a class genuinely wants to be there.</p>
<p>With 5500 kids maybe one is more likely to find a decent sized group of like-minded souls...</p>
<p>
[quote]
b) Social responsibility is a part of the school's mission statement and is embedded in everything the school does
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Considering Chicago's history, it surprises me to see it implied that it is lacking here.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Can you imaging more than 66% of a group of a thousand teenagers being "satisfied" or "very satisfied" about anything?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Easily. I've seen a lot of college satisfaction surveys. Except when asking about, say, parking, students tend to be able to muster honest enthusiasm when asked about their college experience.</p>
<p>The COFHE alumni survey is a fine one, and I'm sure the student survey is excellent is well. I'm not doubting the data or Swat's fine comparative results. But contrary to what you're saying here, it is not unheard of for college students to express satisfaction.</p>