<p>My daughter is interested in Denison, Hillsdale and William and Mary. She is in an IB program and doing very well. She is conservative, very well rounded(not nerdy) but doesn't drink. She doesn't want to attend a party school or a school with all liberal professors. She realizes that kids will be drinking but she just doesn't want it to dominate the school and the same with the professors. She wants to major in History.</p>
<p>Denison might not be the best choice for someone who is looking for a school where drinking doesn't dominate the social scene. Although the administration has made some progress in reducing drinking there by eliminating fraternities, word I have from current students as well as prospective students who've done overnights there is that drinking is still a pretty entrenched part of the campus social scene. Of course, this is by no means a scientific sampling, so take it as ancedotal evidence only. However, if she's accepted there, you might want to have her do an overnight, as well as spend time on campus on a weekend evening to see how true this scuttlebut really is before she makes a final decision. Hillsdale and W&M are likely to be better choices.</p>
<p>Did you do a search for Denison? Go to Search, then Advanced Search, and put in Denison as a key word. At the bottom of that form, if you click on Posts instead of Threads the information will be more specific. We've had lots of reports and discussions about Denison lately. There are several parents on here with kids at Denison - I have a freshman son there who is very happy.</p>
<p>Realize that overall it is very difficult for parents to assess the drinking situation. (Of course NONE of OUR kids drink...) I really don't think my son and his friends drink (especially after meeting his friends and hearing about the sorts of things they do for fun), but all I know is that there is a LOT of drinking going on on ALL college campuses and somebody's doing it! </p>
<p>That said, I think important things to consider are: will the college engage your child in extracuriculars at school that are non-drinking based (orchestra, religious or political groups, theater, that sort of thing); does the college offer lots of activities for the kids who prefer to not spend their free time partying; and are parental expectations perfectly clear. It is also, of course, part luck with what sort of kids they end up living with. </p>
<p>Also, some stereotypes about which schools are party schools and which aren't are frequently either wrong, out-dated, or just not applicable to your particular kid's circumstances. People will read in some book that hasn't been updated in 15 years (and was based on rumor to begin with) that a school is a BIG party school and continue to repeat that with no particular first hand knowledge. </p>
<p>There are actually at least one or two kids on here who overnighted at Denison and felt there wasn't enough partying! (Are there any who loved the partying there - not that recall.)</p>
<p>The political climate thing tends to be more of a concern among parents than kids. Unfortunately, the sad fact is that college kids are mostly apathetic about politics. But if they go looking for cohorts they will find them on almost any campus.</p>
<p>I know nothing about Hillsdale or Wiliam and Mary, but would be happy to answer any questions (if I know the answers!) about Denison. Good luck!</p>
<p>I agree Carolyn about the partying at Denison. My S does have a couple of friends who are very interested in Denison. They are nice girls who do not party. Maybe the admistrations efforts are having an effect.</p>
<p>I was just thinking about the "statistics" (and I use that term loosely - but it is based on surveys of actual students) about drinking on Campusdirt.com. </p>
<p>My S is applying to Denison and all the rumors of the drinking there had me concerned. Weenie actually asked her son and his friends about the drinking (thanks Weenie!).</p>
<p>Besides what I've read on CC, I was able to correspond with one alumni and one current freshman at Denison. Both said that the drinking wasn't that bad at Denison, that there are plenty of non-drinking opportunities etc.</p>
<p>I know, if accepted, S will have to make an overnight visit, but so far, I feel that Denison isn't extreme, not worse than many of the other colleges that we are considering.</p>
<p>Keep asking questions and keep searching. CC has been a great help to us!</p>
<p>Weenie, I hope you're not angry at me! Thanks for your input on your son's experiences at Denison - it always helps to get another perspective. I didn't mean to imply that there was a drinking problem at Denison, just that, of the three schools mentioned by the OP, I hear more comments about drinking and partying at Denison than the other two from both current students and those who have done overnights. As I clearly noted, that's ancedotal evidence -- obviously, based on your son's reports, he's had a different experience.</p>
<p>However, Regarding Campusdirt.com, I have to note one very important thing: this is by no means a "scientific survey" of any kind about any school. In fact, one of the most serious drawbacks to campusdirt is that they do not tell you how many people have responded to their survey --- it could be 100, it could be 10, it could be 1. People should therefore not consider it as "proof" of anything any more than the ancedotal evidence I and the others offered.</p>
<p>That said, while it should also not be considered to be a statistical survey or proof of anything, I also find it helpful to go to livejournal.com and do an interest search using the name of the college.
What turns up, both in the specific live journal community for the school and in the individual pages of people at each school, often makes interesting reading and gives insight into the culture of various schools that sites like campusdirt and studentsreview.com simply don't offer.</p>
<p>Again, the best way to tell if you'll be comfortable with a particular school is to do an overnight. I also think it is a good idea, if possible, to visit the campus on a weekend night. Mini in another post suggested trying to do the overnight on a Thursday, the start of the weekend at many schools. Ask lots of questions of the people you meet, and trust your own sense of where you feel comfortable.</p>
<p>How could I ever be angry with you Carolyn? :) You are one of the most helpful people on here - and you always manage to stay out of the fray (more than I can say for myself). </p>
<p>Yeah, campusdirt.com is sort of suspicious - for one thing, nearly all of the drinking reports add up to 100%. I find it hard to believe that 100% of the kids on any college campus drink!</p>
<p>I just hate this drinking issue with kids. I just don't even understand why they like to get drunk! I mean maybe once accidentally - but why ANYONE want to repeat such an awful event is beyond me. Amazingly, the latest thing in my city is a big crackdown on parents who host drinking parties for high schoolers. Oh well, I know this topic has been beaten to death. </p>
<p>Still I'm amazed at how surprised my son's friends are when I come right out and talk to them about it. (I've been doing that since HS.) I don't think enough kids are used to an honest, frank discussion about it.</p>
<p>Hillsdale has a reputation as a VERY conservative religious school here in Michigan...or was until the President (who has since stepped down) was found to have had an affair with his daughter-in-law (or some such nonsense) after hiring her at the college.</p>
<p>Uh, CarmelMom, my state is Indiana and I'm another Carmel mom! Not that I like to admit that to anyone, considering how despised we are.</p>
<p>By the way, my D had Denison as one of her choices. I think she liked the school well enough - it turned out to be just a little too far away for her.</p>
<p>Hillsdale isn't nearly the academic caliber of the other two. I'm from Michigan and I don't know a single person who thinks of Hillsdale as anything other than a place for ultra-conservative Rush Limbaugh types. There is no way I'd make that big of a sacrifice in an effort to avoid drinking. For one thing, your daughter will be able to find other non-drinkers no matter where she goes. For another, the drinking culture is big virtually everywhere - more at some places than at others -- but it's hard to avoid completely. Even "dry" campuses aren't free of alcohol problems. Perhaps the best thing you can do is to start preaching moderation, not abstinence. It's up to you, of course, but I think the moderation message may give your child more tools to manage the reality of college life. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make this issue go away.</p>
<p>W&M is a moderate school. The Young Democrats and College Republicans are both active groups, and there isn't tension between them. I've been trying to get a political read on my international relations professor, but he points out valid arguments and counterpoints to both sides of everything we talk about.</p>
<p>There are definitely students at W&M who don't drink, and I have never heard it characterized as a party school. A comedian came to campus and asked "so is this a big party school?" and there wasn't a single cheer or shout of support from the audience.</p>
<p>I know there's some W&M parents and other students on the board here, so they may be able to offer their views as well. If you (or the D) have any other questions about W&M, feel free to post them in the thread, check out the W&M board, or PM me.</p>
<p>I think soccerguy is correct about W & M's political atmosphere. My daughter is a recent grad, and her circle of friends included kids of all political persuasions. I'm aware of one very vocal radical conservative group, several of whom are/were tied to one now-banned frat, but even they seem pretty tolerant. I was impressed by the number and quality of political discussions my d had with her friends. She came out far more politically sophisticated, aware, and informed than she was when she went in! She was a bio major/government minor, and doesn't feel her profs were predominantly of one stripe or another. </p>
<p>I guess I wouldn't say that drinking dominates the social scene, but it is a significant factor, as I believe it is at just about every American institution of higher learning. The OP's d will certainly find like-minded friends if she chooses not to drink, and she'll also be able to have friends in the drinking crowd, as they're not a standoffish bunch. I was frankly surprised at the amount of drinking at a school with a reputation for deflating grades and imposing heavy workloads. Most of my d's close friends were Monroe Scholars (supposedly the top 10 percent of the admitted class) and I can tell you that many of them DRANK A LOT. In most cases it was limited to the weekends, didn't have a negative impact on schoolwork, and improved once freshman year was over, but alcohol continued to be present at parties and get-togethers for the duration. </p>
<p>W & M is a great school for history majors, and I hope the OP's daughter will do an overnight to decide for herself. While drinking is undeniably part of the campus culture, I'm not sure you'll find many colleges where it isn't.</p>
<p>What other schools is your daughter considering? That's funny about the distance because that's the plus for Denison because her dream school is W&M and it's so far.</p>
<p>My duaghter's dream is to go to W&M and major in History. She's applying to the summer history program this summer. I think the school sounds great for her but it's soooo far away. Plus, she's out-of-state which makes it even harder to get in for her.</p>