Need some advice from Parents: not taking AP English 12, Effect on Admissions?

<p>Because of a variety of factors, I'm opting to not take AP English 12 in my upcoming senior year. Without the English 12 I will have taken 11 AP's. I understand that it is a lot of AP's, and normally I wouldn't be worried about the lack of one AP class. However, English is a core class and I'm worried that not taking it at a high level will affect my chances at top tier colleges. My guidance counselor basically told me that if I do not take AP English 12, I am out of the running for colleges like Harvard and Yale. Is tis true even though I plan to take Regents or Honors English? Will this have a significant effect on admissions at HYPSM? I was told by my guidance counselor that when an UNC Chapel hill admissions counselor was asked about AP English 12, he said that "If nineteen applicants have English 12 and one does not, it is an easy way of kicking off that one". How true is this for HYPSM, Wharton, and other top schools. If need be, I can take AP English 12, but I would prefer not to. Will the fact that I got a 5 on English 11 mitigate the effects at all? Help please.</p>

<p>GPA: 3.9-4.0 W, 3.8-3.9 UW
SAT I: 710 M, 730 CR, 800 W Total 2240
Rank: 4-5/300
AP: Bio-4, World-4, Chemistry: 4 US: 5 Psychology: 5 English 11: 5</p>

<p>Courseload: Hardest Possible (Minus AP English 12)</p>

<p>SAT2
US: 770
Chem: 650 (retaking or replacing)
Math I: 730</p>

<p>Awards:
Rotary Youth Leadership Award
Black Achievement Award
Distinguished Key Club Member
2006 International Key Club Oratorical (Public Speaking) Competition: First Place
2006 New York District Key Club Oratorical Competition: First Place
2007 Rockland County Debate Forensics League: First Place</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
Debate Team- Captain
Mock Trial- Lead Attorney/Captain
Model UN- Founder and President Elect
Science Olympiad- 2nd and 3rd Place (Robotics) Regionals
Robotics Club for Middle Schoolers in Marginalized School District
Key Club Member/ Executive Board Event Chair
Academic League
Tennis Team
Science and Technology Program- Saturdays at New York Medical College
Junior Honor Society
Math Team
Social Studies Honor Society
English Honor Society
R.E.P.S- Student Representation Program
Mu Alpha Theta Math Honor Society</p>

<p>Status: African American
Gender: Male
Income Bracket: 100K-150K?</p>

<p>*Sorry for the amount of questions, but I don't want to get rejected from colleges because of something that seems so minor.</p>

<p>What's AP English 11 and AP English 12? AP English Comp and AP English Lit? Or vice versa?</p>

<p>Depends on the school. In my D's school, English Comp is for juniors and English Lit is for seniors.</p>

<p>most want 4 years of english, correct?</p>

<p>and the UNC chapel person sounds like a jerk to be honest, its not that simple or obvious a way to not accepts someone</p>

<p>what, if the one who didn't have the English 12 or whatever with a much higher GPA would be rejected over say 3 students with 3.0? yeah., right</p>

<p>comp is 11 and lit is 12.
And to clarify, I will have 4 years of English, it's just that my last year will be honors as opposed to AP.</p>

<p>you will be fine, don't stress and as I said the admiss guy gave a quick answer that was not thought through</p>

<p>go eat a cookie</p>

<p>My son took honors English every year except as a senior when both honors and AP English conflicted with other courses. He was very happy not taking either AP English class. Many kids in our school take both the AP English courses - Comp as juniors, Lit as seniors. He didn't get accepted everywhere, but he did get into Harvard (where admittedly he's a legacy). I think he had 8-10 APs in all depending on how you count physics C and BC Calc. I don't think it was the lack of English that caused the rejections he did get. I can't imagine that with 11 APs anyone would think your schedule was lacking in rigor. Do I understand that you already took one AP English course as a junior and got a 5 on the exam? That should count for something.</p>

<p>Your curriculum sounds fine. My S doubled up on English, so took AP-English comp and a senior English class that was not AP. Your 11 APs are impressive. Your SAT scores are very good, except perhaps for the Chemistry score which you may wish to raise. Don't fret.</p>

<p>If 19 applicants to UNC-Chapel Hill have AP English 12 and one does not, but that one applicant has everything else that you have to offer, I don't think he has anything to worry about.</p>

<p>Your current SAT I score puts you among the top 150 African-American male students in the country, and your rank puts you even higher. I will pay you $1 for every top 25 school - university or liberal arts college - you get rejected from if you don't take AP English. </p>

<p>""If nineteen applicants have English 12 and one does not, it is an easy way of kicking off that one". </p>

<p>If any school - and I'm including HYP, etc. - had 20 African-American male applicants like you, and all could pay something toward their education as well, they'd take them all. (Your guidance counselor is ignorant.)</p>

<p>You're fine with having take AN AP English class, and especially getting a 5 in the test.</p>

<p>I'd like to see the citation that says only 140 black males score about 2200 or so each year. Certainly it is a smaller number than white males, but I HIGHLY doubt it is that low.</p>

<p>At one HS I know well, virtually noone takes AP Lit. They all take AP Comp, get their 5s and they all take Honors English 12 instead. It is a highly competitive school and folks still get into Ivies and other fine schools with merit money despite (gasp!) not taking every AP possible.</p>

<p>Sometimes it seems like kids on CC associate "toughest courseload possible" with "slow painful death by studying." Are you taking advantage of what your school has to offer? If so, quit worrying. Just because one's school offer 14 (or 18 or 37) APs doesn't mean you have to take them all (or even a significant proportion of them).</p>

<p>SES -</p>

<p>I haven't seen the College Board put up its spread on the three tests as of yet; I do know what they have on the two tests. High-scoring African-American MALES are very, very rare.</p>

<p>My offer stands - and stands for any other African-American male with similar stats, class rank, debate team captains, who can pay something toward their education. I fully expect that over the course of a year, this would cost me less than a trip to Starbucks.</p>

<p>My daughter who is at Harvard took AP Lang and not AP Lit in her senior year. There is no way for an adcom to know whether or not you had a scheduling conflict and thus could not take Lit. I would advise you to take Honors rather than Regents. Since you've already taken an AP English class, you're probably fine. You don't have to take every AP class that is offered.</p>

<p>What else are you taking this year? It appears that you are taking 5 APs this year without Lit. Is that correct? If so, it is certainly clear that you are challenging yourself and also completely plausible that a sixth AP might not fit into your schedule this year. I wouldn't worry about it. You'll want to continue with your extra curriculars and enjoy your senior year as well.</p>

<p>You'll be fine. You should confirm with your GC, though, that he will check off "toughest possible curriculum" (or whatever) because that is important.</p>

<p>The only reason I asked about the order is that English Comp is more useful than Lit. My kids' school has them take it in the Lit first (11th grade) then Comp (12th) order, and I think that's a disservice, because the comp class is the meat and potatoes. </p>

<p>The lit class isn't going to matter- it's a humanities course; it counts as an "elective".</p>

<p>Thanks for all the help everyone, you guys were definitely the right people to come to. I plan on calling my colleges of choice first thing Monday morning to see what they say, but at this point I am pretty set on not taking the class. Many thanks, and I'll check back periodically for all of your valuable input.</p>

<p>SES,
don't really have the sat stats (although I think there was a post about it a while back), but according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Ed., only 1544 blacks scored above 28 on ACT in class of 2006 and only 5 scored a 35, so the idea that only 140 black males have the OP's score may not be totally out of line.
<a href="http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index091406.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index091406.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And remember that is for all students. If past data hold, more than 60% of the high scores will be female. </p>

<p>Good luck DerrickA! If I end up owing you a couple of dollars, please let me know. I'll be shocked! (and delighted to pay off)</p>