My daughter is a junior and already has 36 ACT (one sitting) and two SAT subject tests math II and Chemistry both 800. She wants to go into engineering and is aiming for MIT and possibly Princeton. She was planning to take the physics subject test this June, since she got a 5 last year in AP physics 1 and is taking AP physics 2 this year (felt good about the AP test earlier this week, should get 5 on it too).
Now I’m thinking is a physics subject test even necessary? With her 36 ACT, does she still need to send in any SAT scores to further solidify the academics part of her application? She just received her SAT score, a 1580, pretty good, though not perfect. Would it make any difference if she submits only the ACT score versus ACT and SAT and two or three subject scores? Would a third 800 subject score enhance her application in any way at all?
I know for schools like MIT and Princeton they got lots of highly qualified applicants, so if there’s anyway to get an edge over the other similarly qualified applicants, then we should do it. So would a third subject score related to major give her application such boost?
I realize admissions at elite schools depend on many factors and test scores is only a small part. Here i’m just trying to decide on this one factor only. She’s prepared to take the physics subject test next month, then found out she qualified for ARML, which takes place on the same day as the SAT. Getting a different test date seems like a lot of hassle, that’s why I’m wondering if she really needs a third subject test at all.
Congrats on your D’s great test scores For certain STEM schools the physics SAT is recommended for engineering. Carnegie Mellon is one and UPenn is another. My son took it after a physics 2 course and did very well. He took AP US History & AP Lang as a junior but no humanities SAT subject test. Good luck to your D - she should have good options and hopefully will get her top choices but with acceptance rates so low, it is prudent to apply to a number of schools, including several fairly safe ones.
@ucbalumnus None of the schools she is interested in require a third subject test, the most restricted one only says a math and a science test. I’m just thinking with admissions so competitive we should try to gain every bit of edge we possibly can. Like @CA1543 said, physics probably is important consideration for STEM schools even if they don’t list it as a requirement.
She will not be taking any humanities subject tests, not her areas of interest or strength. She already has a 5 in AP WH, and will take AP Eng Lang this year. Hopefully that’s even to prove well-roundedness. She won’t need much prep to take the physics subject test, which is why she planned to do it. Only issue now is the time conflict.
Is there really no difference academic strength wise between a 36 ACT only versus 36 plus 1580 plus two or three subject tests? Or would more stellar scores be the potential tie-breaker amongst similarly qualified applicants? Could extra scores come into play in scholarship decisions in flagship public universities?
If the physics SAT II will not be hard for her, I don’t see why she shouldn’t just take it. It’s one hour on a Saturday morning. While it may not be the make or break factor in her app, one more strong STEM test, especially for an engineering applicant to top STEM schools, couldn’t possibly hurt. But don’t have her take the ACT or the SAT again- both scores are incredible. After the physics, I’d have her start working on college essays and asking teachers for letters of recommendation, and looking at requirements for the schools she wants to apply to.
@yonceonhismouth She was planning to take it on June 3rd, but now looks like she is going to ARML (a national level math contest) which takes place on the same day. We’d have to jump through some hoops to get an alternate SAT test date, which leads me to wonder how big of a benefit would a third subject test bring. Neither D or I wants the subject test in August.
Look at the requirements of the schools your D is applying to (including match and safety schools) and be sure she has everything she needs (ex. be sure no colleges want 3 SATII’s, a humanities SATII etc.). There is no answer that will fit every single college/university out there so it is important to do your research.
Would not miss the ARML - a good score there will mean a lot more than an 800 on the Physics SAT II. Can always take that in October if the need arises. That date still good for MIT EA.
Thanks to everyone that replied. Just an update: I’ve scheduled an alternate date for her SAT subject Physics. She’ll take it after she’s back from ARML. I’m pleasantly surprised that her counselor made the arrangement without any fuss!
@HazeGrey Thanks for the advice. We are not expecting a great score at ARML since she only made the C team. I’ve heard that ARML is more of a fun and expensive social event for the participants, unless you’re able to be a top individual scorer. She wants to go just for the experience, saying it’s an honor just to qualify. Is that true? She is a two time AIME qualifier, does that give her any edge at all?
What will give her an edge is showing more than just good grades and scores which many applying to the top schools bring to the table. Is she committed to other things/areas of interests?
@carbmom My son went to ARML all three years (passing on this year since he has already graduated). On our state’s B team first two times and then on the A team last year. He has had a lot of fun with it and met some great kids that he otherwise would not have. In our state there is a competitive exam to make the team, so it is an honor to qualify. His MIT interviewer and he had a conversation about being on ARML teams.
In terms of an edge, not so sure. Son was three time AIME qualifier and finished 1st in our state’s championship match this year. Also competed with another math team at HMMT/PUMaC. Deferred/rejected at MIT and outright rejected at Yale (where his math team’s coach is a professor and wrote a great supplemental letter for him!) and Princeton.
AP scores are not commonly considered in the applicTion process. That said, submit everything that helps strengthen the application. It might have been helpful to show ability in a humanity rather than 3 math/sciences, even if it isn’t her strength, but that is water under the bridge now.
She should spend the time perfecting her essays and packaging rather than taking yet another test. She has already passed the testing hurdle. Time to move on.
My D went to ARML as junior, team B, but only had Math 1&2 and Bio subject test upper 700 and did not get in any Ivies she applied to. Ended up going to Chapel Hill for CS &NS. Was accepted in UC Berkeley, UVa, UM…I still feel a good score in Subject Chem or Physics would have helped. I say, take Sat physics after ARML.
You don’t need more than three subject tests, so after Physics she’s done with the sat2s. More tests are not good as they would show someone too test focused. Your daughter is in excellent shape wrt test scores, have her focus this summer on something stem related, and then on essays and recommendations.
She has an edge at some great STEM-oriented universities because she is a highly-qualified female applicant. E.g., girls are admitted to MIT, Caltech, and HMC at roughly twice the rate as boys: