NEVER say blacks will do worse at elite colleges...

Applying to College
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<p>
[quote]
Ok I respect that. It's just that I hear a lot from Black people that immigrants don't deserve to benefit from the advances that Black Americans have strove for. Even though we held our own in Africa after the genocides called slavery and imperialism

[/quote]
These statements are indicative of deeper issues of African American-African relationships. I have heard from a few of my African friends that Africans tend to pity African Americans. And I can say as an African American, that black people in America (descendents of slaves) sometimes have latent feelings of abandonment and anger. The only reason we were brought to this country and subjected to slavery was because other Africans sold us. So if they could do something so horrendous to us, why should they get to benefit from all we've worked to achieve? Not saying that I agree with it, but that's how a lot of black people feel.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Black is Black to the outside world, whether you're an American or an immigrant/descendant of one it's good to see Black people in college. It's a good image. Our past struggles may not be the same, but our future successes could be intertwined.

[/quote]
But herein lies the problem, Black ISN'T Black! I mean, when you, TrackBabi, go back to your family as a high school graduate and a student at an elite school, you are an African immigrant being a role model to your family (i.e. other African immigrants). What about the African American kids who don't have any role models because none of the African Americans they grew up with went to college and they don't live around Africans who can be role models. (This does occur, I never knew a single African in my life until I went to college, and I also knew VERY few black college grads besides my parents). I agree that black people in college is a great thing, but I just wish we could get more African Americans into college.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Historically, Black people were not admitted into colleges because of racism, and even now the historical repercussions of racism affect their success in this America no matter what their household income is. So AA helps that. But it is not only Black people it helps anyway. We don't even make up that much of the top schools so I think black people benefit the least from it.

[/quote]
I agree. And I addressed this in my post. While I have experienced racism, it has not been to the crippling level as lower class African Americans. And that is simply because my parents had the knowledge and time and resources to help me overcome it. The same cannot be said for the majority of black America, which is why I spoke specifically about rich African Americans (because they too have the resources to diminish the effects of racism).</p>

<p>
[quote]
On another note: For me I see rich Black kids getting into schools the same as rich white kids getting into schools. Don't they come from the same high schools? So I don't understand why, even when they are upper-class, people still seem to downgrade their success, but do not do them same for white legacies. Not that I am saying you're doing, hotpiece, just some ppl in CC.

[/quote]
I was simply speaking to rich black people because this thread was specifically about black people. But I agree.</p>

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<p>Hotpiece,
My comment about rich black kids was not directed towards you (I think there was a typo there) I was talking about some comments of other CCers.</p>

<p>And I know very well that Black people differ within, in many ways. What I;m saying is that to the outside world, people with dark skin who descend from the continent of Africa, are all the same in their eyes. Many people can not tell the difference physically between Black Americans and Black immigrants. We all have darker skin ao in a lot of the people of the world's eyes we are the same. To them. Not to us. So seeing that we are represented, whichever way and anyway than no way, is a good thing to me. And also a benchmark for all of us.</p>

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<p>Oh yeah, I completely agree that it's great for other races to see black people achieving (hopefully it'll help dispel some stereotypes). But I just wish other African-American kids saw there African-American counterparts in places other than BET or ESPN.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Historically, Black people were not admitted into colleges because of racism, and even now the historical repercussions of racism affect their success in this America no matter what their household income is. So AA helps that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would agree that racial biases play a huge role in primary/secondary school curricula, and that we need to address these sorts of problems directly. But let's be honest here, how many African Americans who <em>really</em> need help AND could benefit from it get it from college admissions? I would say not many. Certainly the guy who I'm trying to help transfer in to Dartmouth right now didn't have all of the information and opportunities as a high school senior to matriculate here, yet I found him to be a really intelligent person with an affable personality and a real great potential as a future something. So that begs the question whether or not affirmative action really addresses our real problems in education.</p>

<p>But now you're condoning AA because of past racism against African Americans, which is fairly acceptable - but oh wait, that's not what you initially promoted. TrackBabi17, I must say this is a stark contrast to the last post you made, where you basically told "Black America to get their act together." </p>

<p>
[quote]
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Black is Black to the outside world, whether you're an American or an immigrant/descendant of one it's good to see Black people in college. It's a good image. Our past struggles may not be the same, but our future successes could be intertwined.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, and Asian is Asian. Look what happened to that concept.</p>

<p>
[quote]
On another note: For me I see rich Black kids getting into schools the same as rich white kids getting into schools. Don't they come from the same high schools? So I don't understand why, even when they are upper-class, people still seem to downgrade their success, but do not do them same for white legacies.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't know what you're saying here exactly, but I think you mean that wealthy white development admits and legacies are not scrutinized as much as those "rich Black kids." While I can't speak for other people, I actually focus more on the white development/legacy cases simply because of the virtue that there are more of them. I believe some legacy and development admits are also unfair additions to top-tier colleges.</p>

<p>But more to the point, "rich Black kids" are focused on specifically in this thread because it is mostly them who benefit from AA as a result of racial preferences. To quote my black, poor friend from above, "I don't think we get a lot of love."</p>

<p>
[quote]
Ex.
Whiny kid 1 says: "Well...well graduation rates don't equal GPAs."</p>

<p>Whiny kid 2 says: "OMGzz, all Ivies ensure that their students pass...that doesn't mean they're smart"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I believe both of those references were directed to me. At least give credit where it is due, TrackBabi17. Regardless, what you probably meant to say was:</p>

<p>Whiny kid Big Brother 1984: "Well...well high graduation rates don't necessarily mean a highly successful number of honors degrees and distinctions conferred to the specific racial subset."</p>

<p>Whiny kid Big Brother 1984: "OMGzz, all Ivies ensure that their students pass...which means that it's actually not hard to fail out anyways! LOLORZ!"</p>

<p>Which would both be perfectly valid statements. Don't get me wrong here, I always firmly believed that those who were accepted to an Ivy were smart enough to handle the work. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Get off of it. If you're a proponent of equal rights then you truly won't be complaining.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Equal rights as of now? Right. Just like how AdOfficer pointed out that 60% of the admits to her prestigious college were from the wealthiest demographic, and 1% from the poorest groups. Equal indeed.</p>

305

<p>Umm Big Brother, I don't know if it was you who was "Whiny kid". If your skeptical as to whether those quotes reflect your posts, then it is probably not you. I did not really read any of your posts, nor can I remember if I did. </p>

<p>I never said America has achieved equal rights if that's what you're saying. </p>

<p>And, I;m not going to lie, Black America does need to get their act together. There is no question to that. Many people have said so. It's just that when they do, like Bill Cosby, people don't like it. But that does not take the blame off America's government for, in the past, allowing such injustices towards Black people that put them in the situation that they are in now. We need to remember the past and move into improving the future, not forgetting the past, like many say.</p>

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<p>


The issue with Bill Cosby is not necessarily what he said, but the manner and arena in which he said it. Many a black person agrees with his mesage, but disagrees with the public way in which he aired that message. We all know that we have problems, but when he listed them in such an open forum, many viewed it as Bill Cosby giving white America more ammo with which to attack us.</p>

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<p>ehhh, at least it got their attention. If he said it in front of the NAACP it wouldn't have reached Black America. It's not like a lot of people regularly subscribe to news from there. </p>

<p>He was telling the truth. It better that he did that than lie just to save face in front of white people. The problem is too serious for us to be worried about our pride.</p>

308

<p>


While that may be true, it gave black people an out. It allowed us to divert our attention from the content of his message to how damaging his mode of communication was. So, nothing really productive came out of the whole thing. Bill Cosby has now been ostracized from the black community (therefore, he can no longer use his star power to attempt to influence black people) and none of the issues he brought have been addressed.</p>

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<p>And that's another problem. People don't want to listen.</p>

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<p>Blame the Blacks! They don't want to learn! They have all the opportunities in the world, and yet they remain poor and stupid!!!!!</p>

311

<p>im not sure if ur in reality and no we don't have all the opportunities in the world but it is true lots of blacks don't take advantage of their opportunities</p>

312

<p>kk19131 OMFG && W<em>T</em>F??......are you really frikkin serious?</p>

<p>Wow i didn't know that ignorance mixed with stereotyping can create monsters</p>

<p>kk Honestly you're getting kind of annoyingw ith your presence because to say something like they remain poor and stupid....you gotta be kidding?</p>

<p>by you saying they remain poor means you're being pessimistic and you don't think they can move up...wow....thats cool.....i didn't know the internet can be an avenue for stereotyping ignorance...</p>

<p>ish, yes && thats true, at least you put it in better terms.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
kk19131 OMFG && W<em>T</em>F??......are you really frikkin serious?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't think he was being serious. At least, he better not be.</p>

<p>I hardly fault African Americans for their underachievement relative to their peers. Take my friend for example, who went to a mostly black high school in Atlanta that did not emphasize a higher track curriculum than what it currently has. Yet, I found him to be a pretty smart guy. It's pretty difficult to take advantage of opportunities when you're ethnic group is simply not encouraged to do so, and there are none around. AA only superficially addresses these underachievement problems.</p>

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<p>Bug Brother1984>>Exactely!....kk is a female by the way......((sad))....
resources are limited in certain areas....&& I personally don't think thats its everybodys fault. Some just grow up not having th resources or someone to tell them to take advantage....No one was born knowingwhat exactely to do.</p>

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<p>A lot of you are assuming that most of the African American students who attend elite colleges are wealthy or rich. This is a gross generalization. </p>

<p>You have to look at demographics, institution by institution, because there are many elite colleges and universities where, in truth, the opposite is true or there is just as much economic diversity in the African American population as there is in the white, Latino, or Asian American populations (like at the institution I work for). </p>

<p>My school, for example, makes annual visits to high schools on the South Side of Chicago, the Bronx, Queens, Texas, Southern Los Angeles, all over DC, and all around the south (just to name a few areas), trying to identify talented, low income African American students; in many of these areas, most students do not have ANY economic advantages. We find talented African American students all over the country, but in these areas, we know the public schools have high populations of low income African American students and that they do not necessarily have the resources to nurture their highly talented students as much as one would hope. These students are hungry for more opportunities, and my school (and others) visit these schools to let the students know that there are colleges out there that can challenge them and nurture their talents. We also travel to other areas of the country where there are high concentrations of low income white students (Appalachia, parts of the Midwest, Northern New England, for example) and low income Latino students (southern Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, NYC). </p>

<p>In addition, many schools have relationships with different non-profit organizations that work with these populations of students, helping them get access to information about not only our schools, but about higer education and financial aid in general. If more schools were involved in these types of activities, we might see more socioeconomic diversity amongst the African American population at different schools and, for that matter, more socioeconomic diversity in general (across all racial demographics). </p>

<p>If schools are willing (which most are) and ABLE (many are not) to invest the financial and human resources in identifying and finding talented, low income African American students, they will enroll more. Many schools, however, are already taking an active role to enroll a more economically diverse student body. Not all elite colleges enroll only wealthy African American students...</p>

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<p>AdOfficer, in my experience (at my school alone) the African Americans tend to be the wealthy legacies and the African immigrants and the Caribbeans tend be low income. But like you said, that is a gross generalization. I'm sure there are a few (and I mean a few) African Americans who are not wealthy as there are likely some Africans and Caribbeans who are not poor.</p>

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<p>Of course I wasn't being serious..... :rolleyes:</p>

318

<p>its sad that out of my graduating class of 222, with 100+ black grads, two black students (one male one female) got 40 scholarships for minorities.</p>

<p>one goes to cornell, one goes to brown (and his brother went to harvard). i thought those kids were so smart and rich, they don't need the scholarships. they might have deserved 4-6, and th rest (30ish) should have been given to the ones who NEEDED the money to go to community college or the state university!</p>

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<p>that's the thing hinman, did the other black students know about the scholarship opportunities, were their transcripts as good, were their test scores as glowing? the answer is probably not...</p>

<p>which is why you see so many wealthy African Americans at top schools, but there are far less poor African Americans. Because they just don't have the knowledge or resources to effectively research their options in regards to applying to and being able to afford top schools.</p>

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<p>"one goes to cornell, one goes to brown (and his brother went to harvard). i thought those kids were so smart and rich, they don't need the scholarships. they might have deserved 4-6, and th rest (30ish) should have been given to the ones who NEEDED the money to go to community college or the state university!"</p>

<p>That post is so ignorant, it's not even funny.</p>