<p>i wasn't talking about accomplishments kk. I was talking about the fact that some schools favor having diversity so much that they will take students that are less competitive than others just for the sole sake of having culture, interrracial mix etc.</p>
<p>Posting #332 clearly gives a example of what I'm talking about</p>
<p>equal as in race everybody should be treated equally socially && beneficially (if thats a word) [case closed]</p>
<p>P.S some of ya'll need to state your genders because people like kk I can't tell if you're a female or male</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not ... and don't call me names, thank you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well sorry about that then. I'm just being facetious.</p>
<p>"I was talking about the fact that some schools favor having diversity so much that they will take students that are less competitive than others just for the sole sake of having culture, interrracial mix etc."</p>
<ul>
<li>"Less competitive"? You must mean lower test scores..... Tell me, what's wrong with a school tailoring its student body as it sees fit? Why should higher test scores or GPAs be given preference over any other factors a school wants to use for selecting its student body?</li>
</ul>
<p>This is my problem with the Anti-AA crowd. They believe college admissions should be based on (only) factors of which they approve. They say people are less-competitive, ignoring the fact that it is the colleges which decide what constitute being 'competitive'. I see abolishing AA practices as a slippery slope- one that will take the necessary power of choosing their students out of the hands of colleges. First people argue any kind of racial preference is wrong, then gender, then economic, then geographic, etc. I find this deeply troubling. </p>
<p>"P.S some of ya'll need to state your genders because people like kk I can't tell if you're a female or male"</p>
<p>-Well, I wouldn't want to be given any kind of 'preferences' based on my gender... :rolleyes:</p>
<p>KK seriously, your presence is annoying me
you ask the same questions over && over again.
The questions you asked have already been asked && answered like 999999999 times (excuse my exxageration but thats hwo annoying it is)</p>
<p>Annoying human beings ...."can't even tell if its a boy or girl"...what a shame</p>
<p>"KK seriously, your presence is annoying me"</p>
<p>-Same to you. :)</p>
<p>"you ask the same questions over && over again."</p>
<p>-If you can't defend your beliefs, then maybe you shouldn't express them here.</p>
<p>"The questions you asked have already been asked && answered like 999999999 times (excuse my exxageration but thats hwo annoying it is)"</p>
<p>-Have YOU answered the questions? If so, point me to the post, and I'll read it, if not, again, maybe you shouldn't express beliefs if you can't defend said beliefs- and you most certainly shouldn't just spit out what Big Brother said.</p>
<p>"Annoying human beings ...."can't even tell if its a boy or girl"...what a shame"</p>
<p>lol... Does it matter? If I'm a male will you be more inclined to read my posts and stop attacking me personally?</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is my problem with the Anti-AA crowd. They believe college admissions should be based on (only) factors of which they approve. They say people are less-comignoring the fact that it is the colleges which decide what constitute being 'competitive'. I see abolishing AA practices as a slippery slope- one that will take the necessary power of choosing their students out of the hands of colleges. First people argue any kind of racial preference is wrong, then gender, then economic, then geographic, etc. I find this deeply troubling.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Its simpler than that.</p>
<p>I believe that college admissions should not take into account factors that are irrelevant to participation in programs of a university, such as race. Is a black student going to be denied a seat in the quantum physics class because of his skin color? No. If theres room and hes registered, hes free to choose whichever seat he wants. Is a Muslim not allowed to study British literature because he believes in only one God and Muhammad as the last prophet of that God? No. If theres room and hes interested, hes free to study whatever he wants, provided he has the necessary prerequisites.</p>
<p>It surely is the colleges who decide what constitutes competitiveness. Are you suggesting that we have no right to opine that the policies may be flawed? I hope not. It wasnt too long ago that holistic admissions was used to exclude Jews from schools like Harvard.</p>
<p>Should people have just accepted that as a result of life and moved on?</p>
<p>Thank God certain people did not.</p>
<p>kk, I refuse to argue with gender-less creatures. Unless you state what sex you are, you will not be hearing responses from me until The Day they bury my casket!
I hate CC memebers that are just enigmas...</p>
<p>
[quote]
- "Less competitive"? You must mean lower test scores..... Tell me, what's wrong with a school tailoring its student body as it sees fit? Why should higher test scores or GPAs be given preference over any other factors a school wants to use for selecting its student body?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Dude, we really discussed this. "Less competitive" on the basis of actual merit, like competitions, leadership positions, academic contests, athleticism, etc. People against racial preferences aren't all for the numbers; we want a holistic process as well. Of course socioeconomic preferences are fairer, because you can't actively discriminate against that. With racial preferences however, you start having arbitrary categories like "African American" and then stupid debates pop up where Africans are like, "Oh no, please don't blame it all on us," because of the general consensus that Africans are 'over-represented' at top-tier colleges (remember that Africans and Caribbeans account for about 3% of the blacks here in the United States).</p>
<p>
[quote]
First people argue any kind of racial preference is wrong, then gender, then economic, then geographic, etc. I find this deeply troubling.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Deeply troubling? That's interesting. The fairest admissions approach is without a doubt, one without any type of preference. Other posters and I are just advocating that socioeconomic consideration is a better method of evaluating diversity. How is no preference 'troubling'? Shouldn't that be the ideal goal with all of these affirmative policies currently in action?</p>
<p>Big Brother 1984; its pointless comment isn't it? thats why i refuse to answer him/ or frikkin her!!.....question!
Don't even know what gender that thing is!!....is it even a human?</p>
<p>Forget the issue of AA for one second. Is anybody else appalled by the horrible logic of the OP?</p>
<p>The person is skewing statistics in their favor. Where are the statistics for the graduation rate of ALL students at those colleges? You need a control group to compare to.</p>
<p>Not to mention Harvard's well-known grade-inflation causing many people to have relatively high GPA' (a 3.4 at Harvard is average or below average).</p>
<p>Moving on, graduation rate tells you nothing about a particular group of people. It is honestly not hard for somebody to graduate from college, especially when you're at one of those aforementioned grade-inflated "top" schools.</p>
<p>Most cases of drop-outs are due to rare circumstances (i.e. death in family), bad grades (this doesn't happen at the listed schools but it does happen at Caltech), and laziness (this happens at the less selective schools).</p>
<p>I don't feel like digging around for info on Caltech's graduation rates by groups. I personally believe Caltech to be a near-perfect model to study proficiency of groups in college.</p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Caltech is a ballbuster school and will tear you up no matter what race you are. Just look up Caltech's info and I bet you will find that African Americans graduate at a lower rate than other people. </p>
<p>Oh, and please refrain from ad hominem arguments please. Argue with logic not stereotypes and human emotion.</p>
<p>EDIT:</p>
<p>Turns out I was right. Just do a search for "caltech". Notice that this article is from a site devoted to black education.</p>
<p>I'm just going to have to say it: On average, African Americans do worse in school than a school's average. There's no way about this; it's not racist to draw a conclusion from sound facts and statistics but jsut watch everybody scream "RACIST!".</p>
<p>SECOND EDIT:</p>
<p>Wow! It turns out I used the exact same article the original poster used! See how stupid it is that you skew statistics in your favor?</p>
<p>afruff, look at my earlier example about how even your statistics could be skewed. </p>
<p>I think the OP was trying to set straight the notion that Black people in top schools do not graduate. Ad he did prove that.</p>
<p>@TrackBabi17</p>
<p>Oh, thanks for the great strawman argument (i.e. arguing against somebody who doesn't exist).</p>
<p>Nobody said that all or most Blacks do not graduate from top schools. The argument is that on average, African Americans do worse in college than the average student.</p>
<p>If you even read the topic title, you would have understood his point.</p>
<p>i havent heard it on these forums. I have heard that about getting in, but not about getting out.</p>
<p>AA is not fair to whites and asians, because everyone should be accepted to college because they are strong applicants, and no advantage should be given because of race. </p>
<p>But, on the contrary, although i disagree with the equality of AA, i think it does incredible works for the less priveleged and the socially outcasted. </p>
<p>As for in college, when a black or hispanic gets into college after coming from a tough background, it would make sense if they do well in college (comparably to normal) because in college, they will have left most of their socioeconomic troubles at home, rather than carrying them with themselves in college. They rise above because nothing is holding them back.</p>
<p>But i still don't think AA is fair to qualified white and asian applicants...im against it for the most part.</p>
<p>
[quote]
i havent heard it on these forums. I have heard that about getting in, but not about getting out.</p>
<p>AA is not fair to whites and asians, because everyone should be accepted to college because they are strong applicants, and no advantage should be given because of race.</p>
<p>But, on the contrary, although i disagree with the equality of AA, i think it does incredible works for the less priveleged and the socially outcasted.</p>
<p>As for in college, when a black or hispanic gets into college after coming from a tough background, it would make sense if they do well in college (comparably to normal) because in college, they will have left most of their socioeconomic troubles at home, rather than carrying them with themselves in college. They rise above because nothing is holding them back.</p>
<p>But i still don't think AA is fair to qualified white and asian applicants...im against it for the most part.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What the ****...</p>
<p>I am not sure I am comfortable with AA when it means that rich blacks or other minorities gain easier entrance when they've had the same opportunities as rich white kids. At a place like Harvard, most of the blacks who attend are rich. But I think it is necessary to recognize that kids from lower-income families may be bright and hard working but not have a slew of EC's because they're working or an application that's as polished because they don't have someone (like a college counselor at a private school) looking over their shoulder. More often than not these kids are minorities. So I think correcting this economic imbalance would help bring racial diversity in addition to economic equality without the merit issues. This seems to be the approach Amherst is taking, and the direction in which other selective schools are moving, including Harvard.</p>
<p>
That's not necessarily true. At Harvard, (as I have observed) most of the African Americans students are rich, but the Caribbean and African students are not. So, most of the blacks who attend Harvard are not rich.</p>
<p>I think not^^^
I'm sure you have not intervied most of the blacks @ harvard so assumptions don't count</p>
<p>So Authentic, </p>
<p>Black people at Harvard are a particularly tight-knit group, we are constantly being accused of self-segregation. I personally KNOW and are friends with most of the black people at Harvard, and like I said, the Caribbeans and Africans students generally come from poor backgrounds and the African Americans come from rich backgrounds. But if you refuse to take my word for truth, that's completely fine. </p>
<p>I ask you or Lord Jeff, then, to provide me with stats that say that most of the black kids at Harvard are rich, becuase I just don't see it.</p>
<p>I can't refuse or agree to take your word because I don't attend Harvard or live in Cambridge. But it is a very very expensive school && not much of its acceptees receive financial aid. I geuss scholarship are available but anyway...........</p>