New College Board study on SAT

Parents Forum
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<p>
[quote]
The findings released Tuesday are the most comprehensive study yet of the new exam, covering about 150,000 students.</p>

<p>The analysis measured the connection between SAT performance for the high school of class of 2006 and college grades.</p>

<p>The correlation scale ranges from minus 1 to 1. A correlation of zero would indicate no connection between scores and grades, and 1 would show a perfect correlation — basically, that high scorers on the SAT are guaranteed to earn high college grades.</p>

<p>The study found high school GPA had a .54 correlation with college grades, which is considered fairly strong. Individually, all three SAT sections had lower correlations, but taken together they were .53</p>

<p>Combining high school GPA with the three SATs scores was stronger still — .62. But that was just .01 higher than if the writing exam weren't included.</p>

<p>There were numerous studies of the old SAT's predictive value. A 2001 analysis that combined about 3,000 validity studies found the correlation ranged from .44 to .62.</p>

<p>The latest research also found that the new SAT, like the old one, continues to predict college grades with varying levels of accuracy for different groups. For instance, SAT scores "overpredict" the college grades of women, and are less accurate for minorities than for whites.

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See: Study:</a> The new SAT is not much better</p>

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<p>College Board's link (which leads to the study itself): </p>

<p>SAT®</a> Studies Show Test’s Strength in Predicting College Success </p>

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<p>
[quote]
*The results for race/ethnicity show that for the individual SAT sections, the SAT is most predictive for white students with correlations ranging from 0.46 to 0.51, as compared to underrepresented groups with correlations ranging from 0.40 to 0.46.</p>

<ul>
<li>Likewise, the multiple correlation for all three sections of the SAT combined is higher for white students than for underrepresented groups (r=0.53), with the exception of American Indian students (r=0.54). </li>
</ul>

<p>*For HSGPA, the same pattern emerges with higher correlations for white students (r=0.56) as compared to underrepresented groups (correlations ranging from 0.44 to 0.49).

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Source: <a href="http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Differential_Validity_Summary_keyfindings.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Differential_Validity_Summary_keyfindings.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If the SAT correlation for underrepresented groups is .40 to .46, and the high school GPA is .44 to .49, simple math tells me that the statement that the SAT is a "better" predictor for minorities is not borne out by the numbers.</p>

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<p>Are you comparing individual section correlations rather than three-section composite correlations?</p>

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<p>Can't help but laugh at the AP interpretation of the study. Such an obvious political agenda: Down with the SAT! Down with the Writing Section! Ridiculous.</p>

<p>How about the fact that it's likely that the higher scoring SAT takers will go to more rigorous colleges and take more challenging courses than their lower scoring counterparts? The study seems far too crudely implemented to be of much value.</p>

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<p>Isn't College Board the people who administer the SAT?</p>

<p>As an SAT-hater, I was happy to see that high school grades prevailed, even though it wasn't by much.</p>

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<p>For me it's just sort of a tempest in a teapot. Didn't selective schools pretty much always require the SAT II subject test in writing? Wasn't that just sort of rolled into the SAT? And didn't those schools always express the requirement for the ACT w/Writing ?</p>

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<p>At the end of the day, it's still true that none of the most desired colleges actively prefer lower-scoring applicants to higher-scoring applicants. When other aspects of the application are not equal, any college may "skip over" a high-scoring applicant to choose a lower-scoring applicant who has more to offer besides test scores, but no college actively looks for low-scoring students as such.</p>

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<p>^^^Then again, quite a number of colleges, including some very selective ones, have gone SAT optional.</p>

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<p>There are extremely few colleges that are both wholly SAT optional (= you don't even have to submit the scores after enrolling) and "very selective." Arguably none. Most colleges on the FairTest list of colleges into which one may be admitted without SAT scores are colleges that admit anyone with the proverbial "heartbeat and a check," because most of those colleges have explicit open admission policies.</p>

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<p>I believe there are quite a number of colleges that are SAT optional and surely do not admit everyone. You opine that there are "none" that are quite selective.</p>

<p>Quite a few ARE selective (some more than others) and surely do not admit everyone, such as:</p>

<p>Connecticut College
Muhlenberg College
Bard College
Hamilton College
Middlebury College
Bates College
Dickinson College
Bowdoin College
Bennington College
Rollins College
Smith College
Union College
Wake Forest
Wheaton College (in MA)
WPI
Franklin and Marshall
Sarah Lawrence
College of the Holy Cross
Drew University
Mt. Holyoke
Providence College
Lewis and Clark
Gettysburg College
Goucher College
Pitzer College</p>

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<p>The original wording was "very selective," and I suppose the issue here is an issue of definition, but I note for the record that quite a few colleges are still resolute about requiring SAT (or ACT) scores from all applicants.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The original wording was "very selective," and I suppose the issue here is an issue of definition,

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<p>The issue goes well beyond a simple matter of definition. The most commonly accepted metric of selectivity is provided by U.S. News. According to the magazine, selectivity is represented by a combination of SAT scores, admissions' rates, and percentage of top 10% ranked students. By removing the SAT scores from the equation, you only have a much maligned admission percentage (that counts for very little in the USNews formula) and ... the ranking. Now, add the fact that a large percentage of the students admitted at the most selective schools come from schools that do NOT rank, you end up with ... not much at all. </p>

<p>While one could debate this issue for a long time, the reality is that the terms SAT Optional and "most selective" or "highly selective" are rarely used in the same sentence. Reviewing the entire list produced by Fairtest to uncover an extremely rare school that MIGHT be considered highly or very selective is a job that would scare a monk! From the list posted by SoozieVt, only two to four (and a stretch) could be considered very selective., most of the schools are selective, and few are hardly selective. </p>

<p>Regardless of the definition, none of the SAT optional schools should be ranked by USnews and every one of them should be listed in the same manner as Sarah Lawrence ... by alphabet!</p>

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<p>Barron's Profiles of American Colleges includes Bowdoin and College of the Holy Cross in the top 64 "most competitive" schools.</p>

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<p>Xiggi, </p>

<p>I personally am not into rankings and they didn't even cross my mind in discussing college selectivity. </p>

<p>I was pointing out that there were some selective schools that were SAT optional and where NOT EVERYONE was admitted. </p>

<p>In my view, several of the schools I mentioned are quite selective. Only on CC would people think of many of these schools as not very selective :D </p>

<p>In terms of acceptance rates:</p>

<p>Middlebury College 22%
Bowdoin College 22%
Bard College 29%
Bates College 32%
Hamilton College 33%
College of the Holy Cross 34%
Pitzer College 37%
Connecticut College 38%
Wheaton College (in MA) 41%
Gettysburg College 41%
Dickinson College 43%
Union College 43%
Wake Forest 43%
Muhlenberg College 44%
Franklin and Marshall 46%
Sarah Lawrence 46%
Providence College 48%
Smith College 53%
Mt. Holyoke 53%
Rollins College 55%
Lewis and Clark 58%
Drew University 64%
Bennington College 66%
WPI 67%
Goucher College 70%</p>

<p>I work with many students who would be unable to get into hardly any of these schools because they are too selective for their qualifications.</p>

<p>Again, I wasn't referring to rankings and truly could care less about rankings. When I look at how selective a college is, I never look at rankings in US News. </p>

<p>If we are going to talk about USNews though, most of these schools have a rating of "More Selective" and a handful are rated "Most Selective". I'm not sure about semantics but "very selective" could be synonymous with "More Selectve." None are schools where every applicant can get in and many are far from it. Also, while SATs or ACT scores are optional, many submit them and the SAT ranges are provided for these schools. Regardless of SATs, when a school is admitting 40% or less, it is quite selective in my eyes. And even those that admit 40-60% are more selective than schools that take everyone. In my view, to think of approx. the TOP HALF of the list I have here as not very selective, is a rather elitist view of colleges.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I personally am not into rankings and they didn't even cross my mind in discussing college selectivity. </p>

<p>I was pointing out that there were some selective schools that were SAT optional and where NOT EVERYONE was admitted. </p>

<p>In my view, several of the schools I mentioned are quite selective. Only on CC would people think of many of these schools as not very selective

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<p>SoozieVT, in this context rankings are NOT relevant. The word ranking only came up because the USNews has established an accepted standard with its selectivity index. While someone might reject the methodology of USNews altogether because there is no consensus of what "selectivity" might mean, then an appropriate fallback position is to use a dictionary entry. </p>

<p>This said, when using terms, one should recognize that "quite selective" is different from "very selective." The difference is notable on your reorganized list. And, yes, I do think that very selective should equate to Most Selective and not to More Selective. </p>

<p>And elitist as it might be, when it comes to separate schools between most selective, very selective, and ... quite selective, I maintain than fewer than a handful on your list can be considered higher than "quite selective."</p>

<p>This said, I am not sure why placing a label on a school is really important when looking at the SAT Optional schools. Let's simply agree that schools that accept fewer than 30% of their applicants are NOTABLE exceptions in the FairTest group. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, students who believe it is opportune to bypass the standardized tests will find their options quite restricted in general and almost non-existent if looking at the most selective schools in the country. </p>

<p>Setting all semantics and definitions aside, anyone who is advocating to focus *exclusively *on SAT Optional schools is skating on thin ice. If the focus is non-exclusive, the entire discussion is ... moot.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Let's simply agree that schools that accept fewer than 30% of their applicants are NOTABLE exceptions in the FairTest group.

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<p>That's my main point. Yes, there are colleges that don't regard SAT scores at all. (Quite a few of the "SAT optional" colleges are actually very happy to receive SAT scores from the students who submit them, and at least some require SAT scores from all enrolled students who have them.) But many colleges that don't regard SAT scores much also don't regard high school grades much, or don't regard any selection factor much. Most colleges admit most students who apply. It is indeed rare for a college with a less than 50:50 chance of getting in to not regard SAT scores at all.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
This said, when using terms, one should recognize that "quite selective" is different from "very selective." The difference is notable on your reorganized list. And, yes, I do think that very selective should equate to Most Selective and not to More Selective.

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</p>

<p>First, the first time I wrote the list of selective schools that are SAT optional, I listed them in random order. The second time, I listed them according to acceptance rate to give a clear picture of selectivity. Second, I was responding to posts about SAT optional schools NOT being "very selective" and that "arguably none" are. In my view, "very selective" might equate with USNews' rating of "More Selective" which many on that list are labeled as by USNews. I would equate "highly selective" with what USNews calls "Most Selectve", of which a handful on that list of SAT optional schools falls under. Thus, in my view, there are a handful of highly selective schools and a fair number of very selective schools that are SAT optional even though most schools of these sorts are not SAT optional...some DO exist. As I wrote, at least the top half of that list of schools (where I ordered them by admit rate) are very selective. I never stated "highly selective" as I was responding to the "very selective" comments and that "NONE" are.</p>

<p>I agree with you that there are not a lot of schools that accept fewer than 30% on the Fair Test list and there are only a handful that are MOST or HIGHLY selective. But there are also some that accept between 30-50% and those are still very selective odds or "more selective" according to USNews. They are not open to everyone is my point since I was responding to previous posts. </p>

<p>
[quote]
At the end of the day, students who believe it is opportune to bypass the standardized tests will find their options quite restricted in general and almost non-existent if looking at the most selective schools in the country.

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</p>

<p>I agree with you! I would NEVER advocate for students to bypass standardized tests! Even those who apply to the schools I listed often do submit standardized tests and some of those schools have pretty high SAT range scores of admitted students. However, there are some very selective (or "most or more selective") schools (not the top elites) that are SAT optional. These may be a good option for a very good student who doesn't have stellar SAT scores but is highly qualified otherwise. </p>

<p>Tokenadult, </p>

<p>
[quote]
But many colleges that don't regard SAT scores much also don't regard high school grades much, or don't regard any selection factor much. Most colleges admit most students who apply.It is indeed rare for a college with a less than 50:50 chance of getting in to not regard SAT scores at all.

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</p>

<p>I believe that the selective schools on the top half of that list (or even some below that top half) definitely weigh grades and academic factors in admissions. </p>

<p>Obviously, schools that are NOT SAT OPTIONAL do indeed look at the SAT scores! There are more that fit into this category than the other, for sure. But just saying there are SOME very selective or more selective schools that accept fewer than 50% of applicants that are SAT optional in case anyone wants to find such schools....some exist.</p>