<p>advantagious,
Yeah, Wake may be a stretch against all but Cornell where it is closer on the numbers for student body strength. The location and fit differences might lead one to Winston-Salem rather than Ithaca. Re U Texas, Texans by and large aren't too keen on the Ivies and have great pride in their flagship university. Also, in a fashion similar to other large State Us like UCLA and U Michigan, the size and environment that U Texas offers is so different than what you might find at any of the Ivies and this will appeal to certain types of students.</p>
<p>Oh, I have no problems with UTexas (again, such a beautiful place...would be pretty tempting if I was an in-stater). I was just throwing out UIUC since it ranks up there with UT and has really good Engineering and Business departments. Gotta back up my friends, anyway, since most of them are going down there next fall. And I am happy not to join them! :) But it is still a very strong school that is a default choice of many top Illinois kids (and has a pretty stiff in-state tuition to match).</p>
<p>Hey, Hamilton College is nothing to sneeze at, either. Its academics are on par with many of the aforementioned schools, Ivys included.</p>
<p>Any college written about by Thorton Wilder certainly deserves to be considered <em>old</em> Ivy. :)</p>
<p>I went to Dartmouth my freshman year and transferred to Berkeley. Though I had one great class at Dartmouth (one of their Freshman seminars) and Berkeley was an overall excellent experience for me, I have to believe that the so-called top tier schools are overrated. Berkeley was very good as far as intelligent peers interested in discussion -- far better than the keg-crazy Dartmouth majority -- but as long as you go to any of a number of schools focused on academics or the arts, as opposed to sports and frats, you should have a rewarding experience and excellent education.</p>
<p>My daughter is going to NYU in the fall for music performance and I have to say that so far, NYU impresses the hell out of me. We'll see how things turn out...</p>
<p>sratman1011, I would put NYU in hawkette's "Somewhat Competitive with Ivies
category," though the school has almost similar undergraduate academic statistics to the University of Notre Dame.</p>
<p>The article that was recently published in the NYTimes focused primarily on Lehigh University as a "new Ivy." Others mentioned were Pomono, Bowdoin, Bucknell, Middlebury, Colgate, NYU, and several others. </p>
<p>Here's the link to the recent article:</p>
<p>BTW, none of the all-women's colleges were mentioned, probably because they only take one gender of the Ivy League spillover.</p>
<p>I still don't think you can be a new Ivy if you are a backup for the real Ivy-plus schools...there was a word for it before they were called new Ivies... I think "safety school" or something</p>
<p>thethoughtprocess,
Your comment above is a bit harsh, particularly when you consider that there are only about 15,000 entering slots each year for the 8 Ivy schools and only about 32,000 slots for the entire USNWR Top 20. The world has changed and I think that more schools today are Reach schools and fewer are Safety and Match schools. With 3.4mm high school graduates, there is more than enough student quality to go around and then have more than a few terrific students to go to many other places.</p>
<p>I was kind of kidding </p>
<p>However, "New Ivies" makes it seem as those schools are equal to the Ivies but just newer.
In that case, the "New Ivies" should be Stanford, MIT, Duke, or NU. </p>
<p>"Back-up Ivies" or "sub-Ivy" would be more appropriate for schools that aren't equal to the Ivies in terms of quality, but are still great schools.</p>
<p>I agree, TTP, that the term "new Ivy" is questionable. The point the article makes, however, is that former safety schools for Ivy applicants are now destination schools for the same caliber of student. While many top students may still consider them safety schools, they find that these "second tier" schools are the best option they have, thus increasing both the quality of the student body and its reputation. If the valdictorian of a school ends up at Lehigh, then you can be sure that the next year's top ten will consider it as well.</p>
<p>thethoughtprocess,
While I think that all of the Ivies are truly superb schools with very strong students, I do think that some of the Ivies might be a little overrated nationally and benefit from the reflected glow of HYP. Statistically I would classify all of the USNWR Top 20 as true New Ivies (ie, not backup or sub Ivies) and several would be superior to all but HYP. </p>
<p>Caltech
Stanford
MIT
Duke
U Chicago
Wash U
Northwestern
Johns Hopkins
Rice
Emory
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame</p>
<p>I would cut this list significantly:</p>
<p>Caltech
Stanford
MIT
Duke
U Chicago
Northwestern</p>
<p>I second you, Slipper, although I would remove Northwestern from that list.</p>
<p>Edited to add: I think Northwestern and the others all are fine schools. They just aren't of the same caliber as the others.</p>
<p>^I would agree. I've never seen Northwestern as any different than JHU, WUSTL, Rice.</p>
<p>According to Vault, NU is considered one of the core schools by 4 of the top-5 consulting firms, more than even some of the schools on slipper's list. </p>
<p>gellino, your anti-NU bias is interesting. Didn't you often put your Colgate at the same level as Cornell? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I would consider Wash U, Northwestern, Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins and Nortre Dame as all equal to or better than Cornell. For Brown, Dartmouth, Penn and Columbia, I would consider Wash U, Northwestern and Rice as equals.</p>
<p>I would say Northwestern is on par with Cornell. </p>
<p>Both are better than Wash U and Rice</p>
<p>WashU is better JHU</p>
<p>JHU is better than Emory, Vandy, and Notre Dame</p>
<p>Dartmouth, Brown, Columbia, and Penn are better than all of the above.</p>
<p>For everyone comparing these schools, are we referring to undergraduate education or the whole school?</p>