<p>
Same here. Identity theft and illegal driving aside, it’s not a victimless crime.</p>
<h2>The LA Chief of Police wants to create a special rule for illegal drivers. If you have no driver’s license because you are illegal, you get to keep your car. It is not impounded after a traffic offense. If you are a US citizen driving without a license, your car is taken away. </h2>
<p>Its probably already the defacto law.</p>
<p>@bclintonk Yes, but there weren’t millions, most from one region of the world, trying to get in without even bother to try legally. Times were different.</p>
<p>By the way, you said your grandfather loved that he could stand on his own two feet here in America. AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM! The majority of these people do NOT stand on their own 2 feet, receiving many benefits-- benefits that most legal US citizens don’t even get! Like in state tuition for a state in which they don’t legally have residence. And free public schooling when the majority don’t pay taxes for it. And medical care that most Americans have to pay up the wazoo for. That is HARDLY standing on their own two feet.</p>
<p>Just because years ago they could’ve had an easier time getting in does NOT mean they have a right to get in now. 20 years ago, I would have had no problem getting into Harvard. Nowadays there’s there no chance in heck that I’d get in. Does that mean I should lie and cheat my way in? Or demand entry because I would’ve gotten in 2 decades ago? And going on the fact that you implied your grandfather wouldn’t have gotten in nowadays: Should Harvard rescind the degrees of every single person they admitted who nowadays wouldn’t have gotten in? No, because times change, and along with them changes laws and standards.</p>
<p>Back to the original topic: there was a time not so very long ago that City College of New York was free to all New York City residents. As I remember, one had to prove residency (a phone bill or rent receipt would suffice); no questions were asked about “legal status”. </p>
<p>Every year, I volunteer to help anyone on CC who has an unemployed son or daughter get a job - a high-paying job, paying up to $20/hour - picking cherries in Eastern Washington. There is a desperate shortage (even while the unemployment rate in the nearest big city - Spokane - is over 10%). No one has ever taken me up on the offer. There is a tremendous shortage of these workers, and without undocumented workers, the harvest doesn’t get picked. They ALL pay into Social Security (my mother thanks them, as they will never collect, but my mother sponges off them), and into Medicare (thank you) and workers comp. Now, a very large portion of that population has “settled out”, and have bought homes, pay property taxes, and start small businesses in the area. They are the only thing that keeps the economy going. Others have bought homes and farms in Mexico, and go back to tend to them from time to time.</p>
<p>Quote:
In her day, Lady Liberty was a beacon to the world. Unfortunately, I think as a nation we’ve lost sight of that vision, that compassion, that generosity of spirit. And as a result, we’re much diminished in the eyes of the world.</p>
<p>==========</p>
<p>lol…diminished by WHO??? Diminished by citizens of other countries that are even stricter about immigration and are more active about rooting out those that don’t belong there??? Yeah, we need to really worry about those people’s opinions about the US. What a hoot!</p>
<p>bclintonk Quote:
And then we profess to be baffled that the rest of the world doesn’t love and admire us as much as they once did. Well, doh!</p>
<hr>
<p>zoosermom quote:</p>
<p>This is so silly I can’t even believe it. We are the brokest nation in the entire history of the world and you are worrying about our not spending enough money to buy admiration? How 'bout we become admired because we did the tough, mature serious things necessary to get our fiscal house in order?</p>
<p>===========</p>
<p>Excellent response Zoosermom. Seriously, there are people in this country that endlessly fret about how other countries view us…are we spending enough money, are we allowing enough people to come here, are we being socialist enough (like they are), etc, etc. I don’t give a hoot about what other countries “say” that they think about the US…they don’t “walk” their “talk”…which is why they all want to come HERE. They nearly all act like they have sour grape personalities paired with an American Bromance.</p>
<p>And why should we be wasting time polling what other countries think about us and then adjusting to whatever their whims are? These countries certainly aren’t changing their own policies when Americans think they should.</p>
<p>I agree. We need policies that work for us. When more and more kids are getting squeezed out of Public U’s, it’s time to focus on that.</p>
<p>“We are the brokest nation in the entire history of the world”</p>
<p>I wonder if the people of Niger would agree with you on that. I have a lot of trouble seeing how we are broker than they are. Our debtors could come and repossess every cent we owe, and we’d still be rich beyond Niger’s wildest dreams. I think we sometimes lose sight of how unimaginably fortunate we are to have been born in this country.</p>
<p>I know how fortunate we are hanna. I never forget, which is why I work so hard to give back. But I also understand the inherent racism in the position of so many to just let Mexican and Guatemalan people come here, live in difficulty, and send the money back for the benefit of others. I understand the racism lurking in the supposition that our country, culture and way of life has to be better, so to hell with theirs. Some of us never, ever lose sight of our blessings and do our best to actually share, not just to do that which makes us feel good about ourselves.</p>
<p>As far as what the world’s opnion is, there are many in other countries who laugh at us and mock us for taking the human beings they don’t want off their hands so they don’t have to do anything for them. Who disdain us for our foolishness and ignorance in thinking we are doing a good thing with our open borders. Who are amazed that we would allow such a dangerous position to continue. They are laughing all the way to the bank.</p>
<p>* They ignore the impact on already weak public schools, where ESL programs consume scarce dollars that are needed for the kids whom are already “left behind”*</p>
<p>There would be ESL programs regardless of whether there were undocumented immigrants or not, since even people who immigrate here legally need to learn English as a second language. Besides, citations?</p>
<p>They ignore the very real problems in the justice system, where undocumented aliens are often given a pass on offenses unless they kill or injure someone of means.</p>
<p>Citations.</p>
<p>Here in the LA area, 25 years ago, many construction workers particularly roofers and those who hung drywall were black. Now they are Hispanic and many of those are illegal. Meanwhile black youth unemployment is extremely high. Those black construction workers used to make enough to support a family. Now the Hispanic construction workers are day laborers who crowd 10 or more to a 2 bedroom home in unsanitary conditions.</p>
<p>This is less because of the influx of Hispanic construction workers and more because of the unscrupulous employers who pay them pennies, the scaling back of labor rights in the United States and the lack of oversight and regulation over companies.</p>
<p>* The majority of these people do NOT stand on their own 2 feet,*</p>
<p>Citation, especially that any substantial number of undocumented immigrants are getting in-state tuition at colleges (i.e., that they are actually GOING to college in large enough numbers to make an impact).</p>
<p>We are the brokest nation in the entire history of the world</p>
<p>LOL, we are FAR from the brokest nation in the ENTIRE history of the world.</p>
<p>* These countries certainly aren’t changing their own policies when Americans think they should.*</p>
<p>This is untrue. The United States influences foreign policy in a lot of countries, especially developing nations, particularly when they want aid from us. One of the largest examples is our influence on Chilean economics in the 1970s and 1980s, and some of the Asian Tigers during the 1990s.</p>
<p>Foreigners that hate the US: </p>
<p>“I hate the US, but will you accept my kid into one of your colleges? And, oh BTW…he needs full aid, too.”</p>
<p>
How are we doing with influencing Mexico to welcome Guatemalans? Right. Not so well.</p>
<p>Excuse me for interrupting the culture wars, but in case anybody interested in donating is lurking, I found the website for the scholarships. It’s really just for undocumented students in the Bay Area. </p>
<p>If anybody wants to make a TAX-DEDUCTIBLE contribution, the web site is here. </p>
<p>[EDUCATORS</a> FOR FAIR CONSIDERATION (E4FC)](<a href=“http://www.e4fc.org/donations/howtomakeadonation.html]EDUCATORS”>http://www.e4fc.org/donations/howtomakeadonation.html)</p>
<p>…and now back to your regularly scheduled programming. Flame on!</p>
<p>I was confused with another article I read about the one in the Bay Area. </p>
<p>Here is the one for New York that the OP was referring to. </p>
<p>[dream</a> fellowship | Fund for Public Advocacy](<a href=“Berita dan Informasi Seputar Artis Tanah Air”>Berita dan Informasi Seputar Artis Tanah Air)</p>
<p>CRD, Here is a form where you can specify which particular fund you want to donate to:</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.nycharities.org/donate/c_donate.asp?CharityCode=1722]NYCharities.org[/url”>http://www.nycharities.org/donate/c_donate.asp?CharityCode=1722]NYCharities.org[/url</a>]</p>
<p>I’m going to use it tomorrow :).</p>
<p>I value immigrants and their contributions. I also value their freedom to choose where they should live. If they come to America they should come in the affirmative sense of wanting to be here and if they choose to stay at home, they should be just as welcome to do so. What I can’t tolerate is that so many are forced out of their homes and communities without regard to their hopes, dreams and plans, to live in a place where they can’t or don’t want to become assimilated while sending their money back as one of the largest sources of cash in the home countries. Not to mention sucking that cash out of this country and sucking the best and hardest working people out of their countries. Lots of women left behind aren’t amused. I refuse to pretend that the employers, citizens and do-gooders who are peachy keen on the status quo are doing the right thing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>GMT… I am not making it about race. The poster (ClassicRockerDad) I quoted said he would rather invest in illegal immigrants because they have more drive than American kids. He had no facts and was making a comment about entire populations based on race. That is why I said his comment was racist. If the poster wants to be racist that is his right, but I am going to call him on it.</p>
<p>if you read the thread, you will see I do not support scholarships for people that break the law.</p>
<p>Julliet, unfortunatelly your condescension seems typical of many folks who are blind to the impact of large numbers of undocumented persons in already economically distressed communities, particularly in school districts that have a tremendous achievement gap problem with African-American children. Your response has a bureaucratic air to it, and is of no help to students [U.S. citizens] in need in districts like Hemstead, NY.</p>
<p>Here is what soccerguy315 quoted from me. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here is what he says that I said. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>ROFL! </p>
<p>Huh!?!? </p>
<p>At least when you quote me, have the decency to read what you quoted!</p>
<p>It didn’t necessarily apply only to undocumented immigrants. In fact it applied to ME! I went to college on a free ride. The return on investment to the coffers on ME has been very positive.</p>
<p>I think this is a really complicated issue and not very cut and dried. I think Zoosermom is bringing in some really nuanced questions which aren’t being addressed, too.</p>
<p>I wish we had a really solid guest worker program, and included in that program would be instate college tuition for the kids. I think that would be less exploitive, in many ways. But, there is a really strong underground of exploitation around this undocumented labor force, not to mention other unsavory things which happen to those who come here illegally and fall into traps we might find unimaginable, which are truly NOT better than their home.</p>
<p>My biggest question about our neighbors to the south is why we haven’t invested in building infrastructure and schools there, in the way that we have in so many foreign countries. I always feel that was a missed opportunity on our part, to have a prosperous partner in the south, as we do in Canada, in the north.</p>
<p>Maybe there was a historical time when we did invest in Mexico? I am not as informed in this area as are some of you.</p>
<p>ETA: I am not opposed to private funds being spent in this way. fwiw</p>