New UVA Office of Admission website

<p>I don't think anyone is saying that UVa is the no. 1 bar-none greatest school for academics in the universe. However, when one looks at the grand scheme of things - UVa is only rivalled by an extremely tiny percentage of schools in the country. Out of about 3000 4 year schools in this country, one could easily make the argument that UVa is in the top 1% of them. In my opinion, that puts it in the group of the "the best." Now, if you want to narrow it down even further, thats fine. </p>

<p>But I honestly don't think if you took the average professor from harvard or chicago and objectively compared them to the average professor at UVa you would find much of a difference.</p>

<p>that being said if you took the average student at UVa and put them up against the average student at chicago or harvard - they would be comparable - albeit maybe scoring 100 points less on the SATs.</p>

<p>The average professor from chicago and harvard dominates the average UVA professor. Globalist just pointed out some not-so-average professors that you would easily find in the top schools cav mentioned. That goes with students as well. They might be 'comparable', but they are still quite a bit better than UVA's mass influx of NoVa kids. That's what happens when you have a public school- it's not like UVA can really do anything about it.</p>

<p>By the 3000 measure than UVA would definitely be among the 'best'. However, going by the audience that is viewing this admissions site, I don't think that can really be said at all.</p>

<p>sv3a, explain how they dominate?</p>

<p>The only real comparison i can give is the comparison between UVa and upenn. I'm guessing you would consider upenn on the same level as chicago and harvard. I spent a summer at upenn between my junior and senior year and I had real penn professors teaching classes. I didn't exactly find them to be "dominating" the experience in the classroom that I've gotten at uva. I didn't think the lectures I received where just so much more enlightening than what I've gotten at Uva.</p>

<p>Now I'm not saying that the best economics professor at UVa is going to give the best economics professor at chicago a run for his money in the amount of awards he's won, but I am saying that when it comes to getting an undergraduate education, I can 100% say that the professors at harvard or chicago are not going to make you more learned in a subject than the professors at UVa. </p>

<p>The only difference you'll find is in the caliber of students. And yes, at a Harvard or a Chicago your standout students there will probably be better than the standout students at Virginia - they have the ability to work at a higher level. But the average student at harvard was in the top 10% of his class when he graduated from hs, and the average student at virginia was in the top 10% when he graduated.</p>

<p>When I was at Virginia, we asked a recently arrived prof from Harvard how we stacked up against the students he had taught at Harvard. After giving it some thought, he said that the best students at UVa are as good as the best students at Harvard, and then the bottom falls out. Guaranteed admission of community college students is not going to fix this situation any time soon.</p>

<p>The actual teaching skills of professors at a school like Stanford or Berkeley might not be better in lower level undergraduate classes than what you'd find at UVA, but the experience of learning from and working with top people in any field is surely realized in upper level classes. The fact remains that there are several schools in the US that are head and shoulders above UVA in terms of academic prowess. </p>

<p>And no, the average UVA student does not compare well with the average student at Harvard or MIT. While UVA has some students of that caliber, the majority are not.</p>

<p>cav,</p>

<p>ive taken upper level classes at uva, maybe you havn't. granted they're not in engineering or economics, but I still have taken upper level classes in music and history. The professors don't get worse as you go to a higher level - they get better.</p>

<p>Also, interesting that you bring up MIT - Now while I don't think that on a total scale that UVa's student body is as strong, however, there is 1 thing i should point out. UVa's first year class is about 3200 - MITs is about 1000.<br>
the top 800 students in UVas incoming class this year had 1490 or better on their SATs, the top 750 students in MITs first year class had 1510 on their SATs or better. I don't find that very different. I'm sure the rest of their academic records are equally as strong.</p>

<p>I think its safe to say you could fill an MIT up from UVa students and have a equally strong school - student wise at least. Same goes for Harvard, where 1200 of their 1600 first year class had an SAT score of at least 1400 - which I'm sure you have 1200 kids in UVa's most recent class that have at least a 1400.</p>

<p>So yes, I will admit that my statement of the average virginia student is equal to the average student at a harvard was a little bit of hyperbole, but, UVa's student body (as well as berkeley's and michigan's) can more than match Harvard and MITs student body.</p>

<p>UVA's top 800 students had 1410 or better. Check your numbers.</p>

<p>And if UVA's student body can match the student bodies at schools like Harvard and MIT, then why doesn't it? Those schools consistently outdo UVA in elite grad school placement, both by number and by proportion.</p>

<p>But we're going off-topic. The original point is that the slogan "study with the best scholars" is inaccurate and vague.</p>

<p>sure,
87 percent of enrolling students ranked in top tenth of class
1280-1490 middle half of class SAT I </p>

<p><a href="http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/profile.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/profile.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>UVa's student body matches theirs - in the sense that UVa has an equal number of highly qualified students as Harvard and MIT. Its just 2x and 3x as large respectively.</p>

<p>Lol, the top 10% number is not something that can be used reliably for comparisons. Harvard has a large athletic program and a smaller class size, and it dips more into competitive private schools that UVA does (per capita).</p>

<p>Also, that SAT IQR is wrong. I'll alert Dean J.</p>

<p>cav,</p>

<p>i was simply just copying and pasting - has nothing to do with the top 10% - obviously harvard has a higher top 10%.</p>

<p>btw, the 1280-1490 isn't wrong, and I don't know why you woudl think that. It was initially reported in the Cav daily last april, and, if i'm not mistaken, you reported that on this website! ;-).</p>

<p>"The middle 50 percent SAT score of the enrolled Class of 2009 was between a 610 and 710 verbal and between a 620 and 720 math. For the newly admitted Class of 2010, the middle 50 percent score for math was between a 650 and 750 and the reading score was between a 630 and 740. "</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26599&pid=1425%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=26599&pid=1425&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yes, exactly. Those are the numbers for the admitted students, not for the enrolling students. Lol.</p>

<p>Half the students or more that UVA admits are OOS students, and we know they have to have fairly high stats to get in- and then they go to top schools elsewhere</p>

<p>Dean J</p>

<p>The new admissions website is superior to the old. That said, the entire UVA web site would not past muster in my IT shop. But at least the admissions portion could mention the new experimental first year house: Malone where first year students can get a SINGLE room, with A/C and a rug and a FREE microwave and refrigerator plus a cool RA in exhange for being a 30 minute walk from class and the Alderman dorms with an illusory bus service (on paper 10 minutes, in reality 30 if ever) </p>

<p>Now that my DS is happily in Malone, I don't mind sharing the secret but as usual, if I have made a major error due to my senior status, just let me know.</p>

<p>Cavalier302 & sv3a, </p>

<p>For the day to day undergraduate educational, learning, and scholarly experience, I believe UVa is on par with the best of the privates. UVa is known for its amazing professors. Keep in mind that many of the prized professors touted by other schools focus on research rather than undergrads. So, I ask, "Are their students studying with the best scholars if they don't really have access to them?"</p>

<p>In the last 15 years, many private schools have tried to raid UVA's faculty. (Note: schools don't try to lure away mediocre academics. The fact that UVa professors are highly sought after speaks highly of the UVa faculty.) Luckily, UVa was able to hold on to most of its professors, because like the students, professors also have a great quality of life at UVa. </p>

<p>You know, when UVa admits students, it doesn't simply look at one's stats and decides on one's worth from that alone. If so, UVa could be like Berkeley and deny people who fall below a numerical cut-off point. What does "the best" mean? Keep in mind that we are more than the sum of our numbers. Your SAT or GPA doesn't tell me if you're a talented painter, poet, dancer, public speaker, historian, or astronomer. One's SAT doesn't indicate someone's passion in a topic, which is an equally important part of excellent scholarship.</p>

<p>I'm hoping that your Echols Scholar status doesn't give you license to look down upon the rest of the non-Echols students. (One thing I learned back at UVa was that that's bad form.)</p>

<p>All I've said from the very beginning is that the slogan "study with the best scholars" is inaccurate and vague. No one yet has offered up anything to dispute that.</p>

<p>I think I have, and my personal educational experience at UVa attests to that.</p>

<p>Objectively, UVA does not have the best scholars. It simply doesn't. You've given subjective reasons for why you loved going here and a few anecdotal examples of "top" scholars, but nothing more. If I tried to do the same for a school like Berkeley or Stanford we'd be here all night.</p>

<p>I would, on the other hand, argue that UVA provides the best (or darn close to it) overall experience of any university. Great academics, great social life, etc, all contribute to that. </p>

<p>Are you ready for football season, globalist? I don't imagine that you get too many UVA games up there in NYC.</p>

<p>My experience at UVA so far has attested to a plethora of people here who hardly qualify as the 'best scholars', at least in terms of the top students in the nation who attend mainly the top ranked private schools, and the data back that up as well. While Berkeley undergrad I would argue is on equal terms with UVA, particularly in this debate about the 'best scholars', their grad school definitely blows UVA out. That does not mean that the students at UVA are all bad people, or they all are boring and stupid, but it still means that the admissions website, in my view, is basically lying to prospective students.</p>

<p>Lying doesn't go far enough, sv3a. It's breaking the honor code.</p>

<p>As you said, the statement is vague and who knows what the hell they are trying to talk about there. As an academic research institution, I can only assume they are talking about scholar in the traditional sense. Also, only students can be brought up on Honor charges in UVA/Cville or places they are representing themselves as UVA students.</p>