<p>Yes, and my son is a victim. We sent him into school a sports loving, yearbook hating, theater loathing mini heterosexual but those lady devils got their hands on him and now he’s a gay. Oh, mercy me!</p>
<p>Really, payfor, are you back for more? Isn’t it enough that you’ve stated that this “trend” is why girls talk about math and not do the problems while in science they discuss their feelings about global warming instead of the causes? Do we really have to endure more of this? You do know women read this board, right? </p>
<p>The blog you eluded to in the other thread is written by a man who says that the problem is that boys have fallen behind in areas other than math and science. Why not focus on that instead of perpetuating the Hello Kitty Theory of educational reform?</p>
<p>What I don’t understand is the widely differing (or at least different interpretations) of the standards for induction in what is supposedly “a National” organization. My DD who is a junior in private school received the notice that she qualified based on GPA, noted the other requirements and simply gathered signatures from the faculty who could best attest that she met that criteria. Since her school requires a minimum number of service hours yearly, that was also already verified.</p>
<p>When chatting with a friend, whose DD I noted on high honor roll every quarter in the paper, I found out that our public school also requires the signatures attesting to leadership, service, etc but that NONE of the signatures could come from anyone on the payroll of the school!! That eliminates huge number of very active students, indeed some of those most would consider THE leaders of the school.</p>
<p>bhmomma, I too am curious about the regional differences in acceptance. My S’s experience has been identical to your childs except he attend public school.</p>
<p>I think my own NHS story takes the cake. The senior NHS members in the class before us decided to not induct any juniors. So my entire senior year there was no NHS. There was one meeting at the end of the year at which we elected officers, so the officers could perform the sole function of conducting their own induction ceremony. Of course, no juniors were inducted that year either because the seniors were all inducted a couple of days before school got out.</p>
<p>It still amazes me that that was allowed to happen…were there no adults involved?</p>
<p>pugmadkate - not sure what “other thread” you are referrig to that set you off regarding payfors comment on this one. Nor do I want to hijack this threads direction, but I am a mom of both a high school boy and a girl - both bright and achievers. I do agree that there are differences in the way boys/girls learn, study, interests, speed of maturing etc. I say that in very general terms. Unfortunately, I have had more problems with the way the school handle issues with the boys. We are involved parents & our son gets a lot of guidance and support. I think the fact that this thread got started reflects a disparity between boys/girls and what’s recognized and acknowledged by some schools. </p>
<p>Incidentially, at our h/s, students are not invited…but rather apply for consideration for NHS…</p>
<p>I was under the impression that there is a set of criteria from the National organization. I second the notion that fewer boys than girls are inducted because the boys don’t do the service and leadership activities to the extent that the girls do. Its sad, but I think the boys don’t consider those activities to be cool.</p>
<p>Back in my day NHS was just an honor for Seniors and was selected among those with a certain GPA. There were always one or two students whom everyone expected to get in who didn’t. My sophomore year one was my brother. My senior year it was me. I got a lot of congratulations from people who assumed I had gotten in, which was pretty funny.
D was inducted in her Junior year, must take after H’s side of the family.</p>
<p>At the risk of being eviscerated by Pugmadkate ( ), I would say that at our school the reason is that the inductees are chosen by vote of the teachers and staff from the list of eligible students who fill out the form. (And I do know of at least one boy who didn’t bother.) According to a teacher with whom I have discussed it, there is a tendency for quieter or non-conformist kids who are top students to be passed over in favor of lesser students who have made themselves pleasant to or at least known to more adults on a personal level, especially junior year. If they are outstanding students, they usually get in senior year, though. </p>
<p>Not sour grapes on my part: my S got in jr year.</p>
<p>In our area, I’ve noticed very few boys are valedictorians. Our college consultant said that last year he worked with 31 kids who were Vs, and only three of those were boys.</p>
<p>It was just a recent post where Payfor actually wrote that girls “write about math instead of doing the problems.” I’m pretty sure that as the mother of a high achieving D, you’d disagree with that. </p>
<p>I have no problem with identifying any group that is doing poorly and working to close that gap. I have a big problem when that gap is ascribed to standards having been lowered for girls. The girls in my son’s school don’t “talk about their feelings about global warming in class”, as Payfor stated they do. No, they do the same work the boys do and they do a great job. </p>
<p>Consolation, why would eviscerate you for saying that? Unless you are contending that school has been dumbed down to accomodate girls and boys are paying the price, we’re fine!</p>
<p>Noticed at the last 3 HS graduations I went to that only 1 or 2 of the top ten students recognized were male. Same with the honor society ratios. Fewer boys than girls take the full IB diploma, requiring the extended project and paper. Not guessing why at this point, though I have theories based on raising both and being a scout leader to both.</p>
<p>pugmad – I can’t believe I’m taking issue with you again because I think you and I are very much on the same side of the political spectrum (very, very liberal!) But I don’t think payfor said school was “dumbed down” in the other thread as much as he/she claimed that schools favored learning styles that favor the way girls learn.
But there could be an agenda there that I am too nice (midwestern nice, to harken to yet another thread!) to catch.</p>
<p>Both boys invited spring of junior year with little notice. Both didn’t really have community service that could be easily documented in time for the deadline. Two years ago our neighbor’s son scrambled for hours. Ironically S2 now has plenty since a project fell into his lap that he loves, but he found it about two weeks too late to do any good. I don’t know exactly what our M/F ratio is.</p>
<p>Some of the smartest guys in my class (including me) are not in NHS. If you were to compare scores of the top ten guys in our grade and the top ten girls, the guys would have higher or just as high scores as the girls. Also there is only 1 guy in the top ten percent of our class (120 people, uber competitive public with 100% of class going on to four year schools). Our school is sexist imo (the real reason is that we guys dont deal with busywork as well as the girls). Doesnt really matter though we have several guys going to ivies and a good chunk going to top 50 schools.</p>
<p>Pugmadkate, I NEVER wrote that girls "write about math instead of doing the problems.. You should be careful about mischaracterizing another posters words, since we can all search to learn if someone is being truthful when they attempt to eviscerate another poster.</p>
<p>What I actually wrote was that certain classroom practices tend to favor girls, giving the examples of math writing assignments and touch feely group discussions. This is not simply my opinion, as it has been documented that girls are on average 1-2 years ahead of boys in writing skills and they are more verbal emotive, not to mention simply more talkative, than boys are.</p>
<p>My criticism here, and on that other thread, is not of girls, but of our misguided K-12 educational system. Many have made the same observation of this dumbing down of our learning standards, most notably in recent years by some states as an attempt to close achievement gaps. Heres what I wrote on that other thread:</p>
<p>Theres no doubt in my mind that girls are just as capable as boys in mastering the components of a rigorous curriculum, but in the interest of social justice our educators seem more intent on watering down standards in a way that hurts all students.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed the “math writing assignment” trend in our district. I’m a female structural engineer, and I’m convinced our district is full of liberal arts people (NO OFFENSE INTENDED!) who are more comfortable WRITING than performing math calculations. Our curriculum is Everyday Math. It drives me nuts. But what do I know, I just have an engineering BS with High Honors and also an MS (for which they paid ME to go to school). I tried speaking to the school board about my concerns and was smiled at with pity.</p>
<p>So my kids get extra math at home and are doing OK. My son’s 8th grade “advanced” math class ground to a complete halt when TWO THIRDS of the class was having trouble with basic fractions. I really can see why some people resort to homeschooling. I also see my middle son, now in 8th grade, struggling with all the busy work. A little more hands-on activity would benefit him a lot. My youngest child, a girl in 5th grade, does wonderfully, because she will sit still and happily do anything asked of her.</p>
<p>Yes, standards have been lowered. A couple of years ago, the newspaper published all the 7th-grade students who made the regular or high honor roll. Since I knew the size of the class, I calculated that 66 percent of the kids made the honor roll! That’s absurd. “Where all the children are above average” seems to be true in our district.</p>
<p>The best thing we did for our sons was to remove them from our (excellent) public school system and send them to an all-boys’ Catholic school with an all-male faculty. The classroom environment was much more relaxed, with plenty of physical activity breaks in the lower school. The boys were engaged with outdoor activity in all weather and lots of classroom competition, which many public schools de-emphasize. They read books that appeal to boys, and never had to “journal” about their feelings. They also recited poetry in school-wide competitions, played the flute in the school band, and about a quarter of the high school boys sang in the men’s choir. It was a marvelous place.</p>
<p>I have two daughters who are three years apart. They went to different schools in the same neighborhood, but the criteria for admission to NHS is vastly different between the two schools. It is, however, true that girls outnumber boys substantially in both. D1 was part of the selection committee in her senior year and, although the criteria wasn’t especially rigorous, she noted that far fewer boys applied although she knew a bunch who were qualified. She said at the time that they just didn’t want to be bothered with the “stuff” involved in applying and being a member. So they didn’t.</p>
<p>My girl didn’t want to be bothered, either. It sounded like too many rules, and frankly they might reject one’s application. So we’re helping the ratio at our school.</p>
<p>What shocked me was the little exercise I did comparing female to male ‘state scholars’, for which you need both grades and test scores. Far, far fewer males from our grade school made the cut. I know one boy simply rebelled against the work load his mom insisted upon, with bad grades the result. Another took to looking like a clown/oddball; I can’t think getting perfect grades and pleasing people at school were high on his list.</p>
<p>I just picked up the book “The Decline of Men”. Maybe that will explain it.</p>
<p>Following our our public schools example the focus the NHS has become feminized, with a strong, almost exclusionary, emphasis on female learning and achievement. As a result it’s the average and lower range boys that suffer the most. Any honest parent of sons will tell you this.</p>
), I would say that at our school the reason is that the inductees are chosen by vote of the teachers and staff from the list of eligible students who fill out the form. (And I do know of at least one boy who didn’t bother.) According to a teacher with whom I have discussed it, there is a tendency for quieter or non-conformist kids who are top students to be passed over in favor of lesser students who have made themselves pleasant to or at least known to more adults on a personal level, especially junior year. If they are outstanding students, they usually get in senior year, though. </p>