<p>I would suggest that we all count the ratio of girls to boys among NHS, leadership positions and other scholastic honors in our middle and high schools. In every case Ive heard, the girls significantly outnumber the boys, and this seems consistent with most of the comments in this thread.</p>
<p>One particularly curious aspect of our high schools awards night last year was that in math most of the more quantitative honors (highest grades) went to boys but most of the qualitative awards (outstanding effort) went to girls. Apparently, although the boys actually earned the highest grades, the teachers thought the girls were trying harder.</p>
<p>When S1 was inducted into NHS, there were fifty inductees (from both the jr. and sr. classes). Thirteen were boys. S1 quit NHS by mid senior yr.</p>
<p>It’s fascinating to me that when girls dominate something, it must be because we are letting down the boys or girls are just “naturally” good at it.</p>
<p>merryecho: each school sets a minimum GPA that an NHS member must maintain. Ours, for example, is 3.3, but to be eligible for induction, the GPA is 3.5 (the faculty committee just approved that). Usually, if a student falls below the minimum GPA, a warning letter is sent to the student. He or she has a semester to raise those grades or he or she will be dismissed from NHS. That said, most kids will listen to the warning and pull up their grades.</p>
<p>One thing that I will add about NHS is that all chapters are eligible to nominate students for national scholarships. Make sure that your sponsor knows about that. An extra grand could really help a student.</p>
<p>pugmadkate, I dont want to belabor the point, but I disagree with your conclusion that my comment about the fact that writing assignments in math class tend to favor girls is the same as my claiming that girls "write about math instead of doing the problems.</p>
<p>Now I think I know how Larry Summers felt. I hope I havent caused any fainting spells out there. lol!</p>
<p>Is there anything new about this? It was the same at my high school over thirty years ago. I think it was GPA, mainly. Of the top ten GPAs, 8 were girls, although the top one was a boy (ahem).</p>
<p>S2 was not offered membership in NHS. No one can believe it - friends at school and teachers included, not just W and I.</p>
<p>He is in 3 varsity sports and is very active at his church. He is not particularly active at school, because he simply doesn’t have the time. The selection committee consists of 3 teachers, none of whom he has had in a class. The GC told him he could reapply 1st semester senior year. I think (and hope) that he will tell them “no thanks.”</p>
<p>Treetopleaf, it is true that a student can be rejected. If that happens, it’s because he or she does not have leadership or service hours. Some schools will defer an application – that is done at our school – and students are given the summer to gain some additional service hours or a leadership post. Students are usually rejected because of character issues – like cheating. </p>
<p>PayFor, girls often do dominate leadership spots. For example, in our NHS, three of the four officers are girls. Last year, it was all four. The year before, three of the four. Girls do tend to dominate awards, too, although my son has won the English award the past three years. The funny thing is – he is a math kid.</p>
I have girls and a boy. I want both to succeed. If one group “dominates” something, that tells me that the other group is very far behind which is unaccceptable to me and I expect that to be resolved. The contributions of both sexes are valid and I celebrate the differences.</p>
<p>My little guy is in fifth grade. I recently visited his school for a publishing party of the kids’ books. The difference between the work of the girls in that area and the work of the boys is breathtaking. The girls’ work is generally polished, cohesive and attractive, but the boys’ work requires more attention to see how good it is. When they had an “invention fair” last semester, the opposite was true. Both projects were wonderful and the kids all learned from both, even if some kids had different levels of success on each project. We can’t seriously say that there isn’t a gender difference in learning styles and both should be respected.</p>
<p>At our HS, most of the top ten would not be there if grades were weighted. Their places would be taken by boys–and girls–who are more intellectually driven. And possibly less compliant, because being compliant–following instructions carefully, being nice and communicative in class and out–tends to earn better grades in less challenging classes. We would not have the situation we did several years ago where a girl who had never taken a single honors or AP class was named the val. </p>
<p>I think that it is a matter of catering to certain learning and behavioral styles rather than “dumbing down.” At least here, many academic projects in middle school tend to have a heavy arts and crafts component, which is part of the grade. This tends to work against most boys and against gifted kids who want to get on with learning the subject matter. My S had a terrible 7th grade year with a math teacher who was into talking about math and writing about math, followed by a superb 8th grade year with a HS honors teacher who was all about DOING math. His 7th grade science teacher was known for being into getting girls interested in science. The first big project of the year, apparently intended to reinforce use of the scientific method, which they had already covered thoroughly in prior years, was one in which the student was supposed to “predict” which color lifesaver would melt faster in the mouth! And they had to spend a LOT of time on that nonsense. S was filled with boredom and contempt. The other big project had to do with baking bread and the effect of variables on the behavior of yeast. It was much better scientifically, but still obviously aimed at the stereotypical female population. (I’m sure that many of the science-oriented girls were less than thrilled also.) I recall sitting in a student conference in which this teacher–in front of S–said, “I know S isn’t interested in science…” I wanted to say, “No, he’s just bored by YOU and the bogus stuff you insist on wasting his time with!” He was actually in the science G/T program, and in HS went on to take APs in Bio, Chem, and Physics. Not bad for a kid who “isn’t interested in science.” </p>
<p>It continues into at least the early years of HS, especially before classes are weeded out into honors/AP and the rest. Honors/AP assessments tend to address the substance of the material, rather than giving extra points for having a pretty cover on the report.</p>
<p>I’ve seen the same turn-off of boys in my church’s RE program, where males are scarcer than hen’s teeth after about 5th grade. When the class leans heavily on doing an arts and crafts project and talking about your feelings–and sitting still and being quiet–it isn’t going to appeal to most boys. Not even to the highly verbal ones.</p>
<p>I happen to think that arts and crafts and talking about your feelings are both valuable, btw.</p>
<p>I cannot seriously say that I believe there is a larger difference between genders than there is within genders. </p>
<p>I also cannot seriously say that this outcome is at all a surprise considering from day one girls are praised for caretaking and boys are praised for individualism. </p>
<p>Instead of lamenting about how boys drop out of activies as if it were a mystery, I’d rather we teach girls not to hide how smart they are and that it’s okay to not take care of everyone (ie office holders) and teach boys how to correctly identify their feelings and not be ashamed of them. </p>
<p>I, too, want every to succeed. I simply do not believe that is possible by trying to chase down boys who’ve learned to hold most emotions back, that group participation is uncool and that both of those things are “girly” once they are in middle school. Not unless a concerted effort is made to improve their skills in the areas they lack, just as we once did with girls in math and science.</p>
<p>Which was my point about when genders excel. When girls were way behind, they had to learn to catch up with the boys. When boys are behind, it’s because we’ve “feminized the process.” Girls are not ahead because the standards got lowered on things like the ACT and SAT. They are ahead because we held up the standards across the board. Time to do the same with boys. They are more than capable of it.</p>
<p>My S is a senior in NHS and was honored to be accepted then disillusioned when all the officers selected were girls. The officer elections were totally a popularity contest and the gender ratio is probably 2/3 or 3/4 female so the girls had the edge on the elections. While I’m sure at that age they do not recognize that their actions have impact on the perception of the organization, it is clear to S that NHS is of the girls, for the girls. I think we both thought it was and should be more of a meritocracy. Unfortunately, the faculty advisor junior year when he was inducted was not a good person to do it and she has since retired. I think after reading this I may talk to the new advisor and have him keep an eye on the perception of the gender bias in NHS.</p>
We can agree to disagree. Or not. I’m a bit taken aback by the ferocity of your arguments on this thread, but perhaps you have reasons.</p>
<p>Helping girls catch up became a cottage industry for quite a while. My oldest daughter was at exactly the right age for us to have seen that firsthand. The disparity in the number of male versus female teachers at the lower grades tells its own tale.</p>
<p>As I said, I have girls and a boy. I want both to succeed. Both offer valuable contributions and are equally deserving.</p>
<p>At my son’s NHS induction 2 years ago, it was at least 2/3 girls. In our school induction is based solely on a GPA of 3.75 (weighted) and service hours are then required to be a member in good standing. My understanding was that the system was changed a few years before to focus solely on GPA, as it was too difficult to evaluate the community service component.</p>
<p>Also, of the 6 NM semi-finalists (3 girls, 3 boys), my son was the only one that became a finalist. I don’t know if the other two boys did not bother to turn in the paperwork, or if their grades were not good enough. </p>
<p>OTOH, when he participated in the State Geography Bee final, there were only a handful of girls out of the 100 or so finalist. I wonder if the esoteric geographic and historic information required for the GeoBee appeals more to boys. </p>
<p>The way boys learn and develop is different than girls. It is controversial in some circles to think that boys need assistance in achieving their potential in school, but clearly high school boys are not succeeding to the same degree as the girls in terms of grades and leadership. Some of it is maturity- boys just seem to have a harder time focusing on the future or doing the work required to get the top grades. For other boys, they know the material and do well on tests, but “forget” homework or do sloppy work. Not sure where the answer lies, but it is frustrating to see very bright, capable boys not succeeding as well as they should.</p>
<p>Re post #51: I heartily agree with most of your excellent points.</p>
<p>A goodly part of the change you suggest, to me, involves putting into practice the second half of feminism: making a conscious effort to avoid restricting individuals to specific roles by gender, instead enabling personal choice. </p>
<p>But I would suggest that accomplishing this should not be yet another burden placed on schools to carry more or less alone. At the same time, I think that one should never underestimate the effectiveness of something like Title IX in effecting change.</p>
<p>My personal theory (not scientific – I reiterate the personal aspect) is that boys and girls in the younger grades aren’t at the same developmental level at the same age. I’d love to see boys start first grade a year older than the girls in their class. I’m quite fine with admitting that girls are more advanced at some of the skills that make them successful in school than boys are, but I do think boys develop those skills. Just not at the exact same pace.</p>
<p>The passion over this issue is fascinating to me, because I didn’t see anything like it in my kids’ schools. In both of my kids’ high school classes, the top 10 ranking slots were split equally between boys and girls, and in both classes a boy was the valedictorian (by a mile) and a girl was in second place. I didn’t count heads for NHS, but I didn’t notice any big disparity either. The deal at that school was that the kids apply, and for the most part all of the top students do. (The school’s public service requirements were roughly equivalent to NHS, so that was no biggie.) I don’t remember hearing any interest in NHS politics one way or another. In general, leadership positions were divvied up pretty equally, although in both classes boys were somewhat more prominent and girls somewhat more numerous. The school administration took something of a hand in that, sometimes intervening to make certain that good students got leadership opportunities. (My daughter was a beneficiary of that. She switched schools in 11th grade, and so lost her place in the queue for the ECs in which she participated. At the beginning of her senior year – after she had established herself to some extent as Someone To Watch, and before college applications were due – she was called into an assistant principal’s office and told that the school wanted to do a new program and that she should run it. She was very grateful.)</p>
<p>I agree that at younger ages developmental differences make a big difference. At the private school my kids attended then, there was de facto a different age cut-off for boys, so that on average the boys in each class were six months older than the girls, and even then it was rare for a boy to show up as a top student until the end of middle school. I remember my daughter coming home one day from 8th grade sobbing with rage at having been beaten in a debate by two boys whom she had never even considered as potential rivals before (both of whom wound up at Stanford five years later). And with my son, it was only in 8th grade that it started occurring to him that he might be a good student as well as a nice guy.</p>
<p>JHS, our local newspaper publishes all the names of the graduates of the local high schools, along with a photo of the vals and sals of each school. I counted last year. In the co-ed schools, of the 16 possible slots, 13 were female.</p>