<p>Close friends have a freshman son at a CTCL school who's Calc 101 prof advised him on arrival (after registration) that "our Calc 101 for students w/calculus+ in HS", which is contrary to course's published prerequisite of "4 yrs HS math, w/precalculus". There are only two sections of Calc 101; both confirmed to have this new qualifier. Their son's been encouraged to transfer into a lower-level applied math class for humanities majors, a class which doesn't qualify him for his intended math major prereqs on math-sequencing, and which places him at half-year out-of-sequence. (He's allowed to take Calc 101 in spring, according to this prof.) Student says his current classmates had AP Calculus for most part, that he's struggling, did paperwork for tutor that hasn't surfaced, and feels pressured by prof to transfer out. He initiated transfer paperwork today, two weeks into semester. His parents are dismayed. Their son was a classmate of our son, A- avg in math incl precalc, and graduated w/honors from a well-regarded private college prep. Like I said, he intends to major in math or physics. This is not a "top 20" college; I'm trying to be helpful, or at least supportive.</p>
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<p>This seems to me like the key fact: he’s struggling after a couple of weeks. This isn’t the hard part of Calc 1 yet.</p>
<p>Knowing only what you’ve told us here, I think the professor may be right. And I think all the rest of it–what he wants to major in, what it says in the course catalog, whether the designation that these courses are intended for students who studied calculus in high school is moving the goal posts–is secondary to that one salient fact.</p>
<p>If the school only offers two sections of Calc I (I presume that enrollment is capped at around 35 students since it’s a CTCL school) that’s a very bad sign. Even if his Calc problem is later resolved, it’s likely that there won’t be adequate numbers of upper div classes available for any highly quantatative major including physics or math.</p>
<p>What school is this?</p>
<p>It is highly unusual for a college in the US to require high school calculus. All of the examples that I know of are extremely selective schools, often those which attract mainly top-students-in-math:</p>
<p>Caltech
Harvey Mudd
WUStL (engineering only)
Cornell (engineering only)</p>
<p>In addition, fall first semester frosh calculus courses typically assume incoming students with no calculus in high school, or insufficient high school calculus preparation to take a more advanced math course (exceptions would be schools like Caltech and Harvey Mudd where frosh calculus is like real analysis). So that school in question is highly unusual in that respect.</p>
<p>Perhaps there are ulterior motives, like the school having an over-enrollment situation in the first semester frosh calculus course and making the course extra difficult to “weed out” students from that course and later math courses that would also be over-enrolled if all of the students were allowed to take and pass the course.</p>
<p>I’d assume it’s Reed. If I’m right, disregard my previous post.</p>
<p>Probably not Reed, which does not appear to have a “lower-level applied math class for humanities majors”:
[Reed</a> College | Mathematics | Courses](<a href=“http://academic.reed.edu/math/courses.html]Reed”>Courses - Math & Statistics Department - Reed College)</p>
<p>^^Mine is at a big university in Engineering and was placed through testing into a Calc class. He did not take Calc in high school and found that all the kids in his Calc class had previously had Calc. He talked to the prof who also suggested he might want to drop into the other Calc class. He drop from a 140 Calc to a 132 Calc that day which was the last day to transfer and that was a section with kids who had not taken Calc in high school but placed into Calc through testing. He transferred after two weeks, took a test the first day cold in the new class and did well with just some weekend studying with the new class texts. He’s a much happier kid. He will be one semester off sequence but there will be time to catch up over the four years. He’s much, much happier. This was probably the only thing, the ability to find different sections and classes, I liked about a huge university. I would much prefer to have a kid that is not struggling, especially in a STEM field. There is always time in four years to fit these sorts of zigs and zags into the schedule. Freshman fall is tough for pretty much all kids without the added stress of feeling totally over their heads by off the starting gate.</p>
<p>It’s okay to be off by a semester. I don’t think it’s that uncommon and it’s easy to catch up. I’m with mom, it’s better to be off by a semester, get a firm base and be a happy student than “on track” but stressed out (and possibly failing).</p>
<p>If the student is already struggling in the class, it probably makes sense to follow the advice and transfer down to a lower class. If the student is going to major in a math-related subject, it is important to start with a good foundation. Perhaps the student could take a class over the summer to “catch up”.</p>
<p>Bottom line is the parents should not be dismayed. I’ve found with my three that they KNOW when they are over their heads. The parents should be pleased their son knew when he needed to make a change. This is especially important for kids (and parents) who got fairly easy “As” in high school. It can be a panic if they have never been really over their heads. As many have said…building a strong foundation is much more important that sink or swim. If there is a GPA based merit scholarship you do not want a kid who after midterms finds they have a D or is failing. It takes ALOT to raise a GPA. Cs get degrees and Bs keep kids with their GPA based merit scholarship AND in their major.</p>
<p>I agree that it’s more important to have a good grounding in the subject than to stay on sequence.</p>
<p>I do question how someone can know he wants to be a math or physics major without taking calculus. Plenty of people do fine in HS math but discover they don’t have the chops for the real stuff. If this kid does have the ability, and just needs more background, he’ll get it in the course geared to his present skills. Floundering in calculus will not do his future ambitions any good.</p>
<p>Do they have a two or three semester Calculus sequence at this college? Is this proof based calculus? </p>
<p>Math majors often have to take proof based Calculus which is usually more difficult than engineering calculus, which is more difficult than social science calculus. </p>
<p>A lot of schools will discourage students from taking proof based calculus if they don’t have 5 (5) on AP Calculus BC and 750+ on SAT Math.</p>
<p>I am not sure if cc will support this link, but I think it makes some valid points and you should share it with your friends. Remove the * from the http to view.</p>
<p><strong>h*ttp://<a href=“- YouTube”>www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZO0WWULLA</a></strong></p>
<p>I think it is great the prof acknowledged he was over his head, and encouraged him toward a more appropriate class.
When one of my kids was struggling, she tried to drop & the prof talked her out of it.
She failed the course.( an upper division course)
Reed only has proof based calculus.At least when D was there & it was required for sci majors.
Id take the professors advice over published materials that may not be up to the minute.</p>
<p>What would concern me the most is that 1) he is being placed in a math class for humanities majors ( “calculus lite”): and 2) that it is not part of the class sequence for math majors. Is there a pre-requisite class for math majors that he could take? My fear would be that the class he is being put in still may not put him in a position to be successful in the Calc 101 class, if he truly wants to be a math major.</p>
<p>My other thought is that maybe after a session or two working with him, the professor thinks he may not have the kind of mind to be successful as a math major, even though he was good in math at the high school level, and wants him to find another major.</p>
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<p>While I agree generally, the student and parents should be aware that being “behind” increases the risk of needing an extra semester (and attendant costs). So getting behind on an important prerequisite should only be done for important reasons, like needing additional preparation (which may be the case here), not because the student does not want to take an 8am course or something like that.</p>
<p>If the student’s major has long prerequisite sequences, it may be difficult to complete the major within eight semesters if the prerequisite sequences are started a semester late. This is especially true if some of the courses are offered only once per year instead of every semester (more common at small schools), in which case being a semester behind results in being a year behind. If a required upper division course for the major is offered only once every two years, then being behind on completing the lower division prerequisite sequence may result in missing the normal opportunity to take the course, resulting in needing an extra semester to get the chance to take the course.</p>
<p>@UCB - If he fails the class though he’ll have to re-take it anyway. The ideal situation would be for him to get tutoring ASAP so he doesn’t get too far behind but it might already be too late to catch up.</p>
<p>OP - Does he have an advisor he can talk to to find out how far he’ll be behind if he transfers to a lower-level math class? Can any other students in the class study with him and help him out?</p>
<p>My D took AP calc in high school and it was extremely difficult for her to begin with. She had been in advanced math from 4th - 8th grade and was ability grouped so they could really dive into the material and go at a fairly fast pace because all the kids were at about the same level. When she entered HS, she was in normal math classes with kids of all ability levels and the pace slowed way, way down and she got used to it. When she hit calc, the pace increased and it took her a little while to adjust to the pace and admit she needed help. Up until that point math was an easy A for her and it was a little shocking for her to realize she wasn’t as much of a math wiz as she thought she was and I think a little humiliating for her to admit she needed to study with people who could help her. </p>
<p>I have to admit to being happy she learned how to study during high school because I think she could be in the same boat as the OP’s student this year in college if she hadn’t taken calc in HS. BTW, she really doesn’t like her calc II prof and she said without her HS calc notes she wouldn’t be doing as well as she is in the college class. </p>
<p>I wish your friend’s son well in however he chooses to handle this situation.</p>
<p>Op here. Parents are concerned that student will be off-sequence for several possible majors. Issue wasn’t flagged during registration and before prof met his class. Parents do think there’s “enrollment management” issues at play; spring calc 101 also near full. Student’s arbitrarily assigned advisor is a humanities prof who’s seemingly not involved in math prof’s transfer talk. School is a “top 80” LAC, not Reed caliber. Yes, parents feel deceived re school’s reputation for small classes and “individualized learning”, and certainly never expected that their good student would be shut out of conventional calc 101 his freshman year. Alternate math class suggested counts only for humanities majors’ general education requirements.</p>
<p>OP, Can you please share student’s SAT Math and SAT II Math II score with us?</p>
<p>I would be more concerned about whether this kid should be a math or physics major at all. It’s going to get a lot harder than calc 101. I would think most majors are probably starting with multivariable calc as their first college class so he’s already a year behind in the calculus sequence. He wouldn’t be the first kid who did well with high school math but discovered they weren’t really that good at math in college.</p>