<p>I’m not sure I understand how our knowing his SATs would really help anybody figure out what’s best for the student to do in this situation, or help the OP, or (least of all) help this student. </p>
<p>Seems to me, the standardized test scores he earned 12 to 24 months ago are really immaterial if he’s not keeping his head above water in the class now.</p>
<p>OP, could you PM me the name of the school? My son is looking at some CTCL schools and would be in a similar position next year. Thankis!</p>
<p>Agree with electronblue. If the student is having this much trouble with Calc 101, then maybe math isn’t the major for him. It might be a case of the high school poorly preparing the student for college level work.</p>
<p>Either the student needs remedial work (which puts him back one semester) or math is not a good major for him.</p>
<p>OP here. I think some posts are missing point: student’s “calc 101” class has morphed into “adv calc class for former AP Calc students”, though it is ONLY initial calc class offered at this school, a first of three sequence to be taken to complete school’s “Calculus 1” yearlong cycle. This same “101” class is offered spring term, w/o caveat that students have prior calculus experience. Apparently “advanced calc” freshmen opted to take “101”, rather than enrolling in also-offered 2nd installment 102. I can’t think of any HS classmates of these two students, even academically weaker students, that are not enrolled in a calculus class this fall. Calculus seems to be a “rite of passage” for freshmen, except at this CTCL school.</p>
<p>I know that at S3’s school (American University), students were given the school’s math placement exam during their orientation, no matter what their high school transcript had on it, and were placed within the school’s math sequence accordingly. A course in business calculus was required in my son’s curriculum, and generally it was suggested that students take it first semester because it was a required prerequisite for many other classes. S3 was surprised by how many students did not place in to the calculus class, and had to take a remedial class instead. There were even some students who did not place in the pre-calculus class–that put them a whole year behind! S3 commented that almost all the students in his calc class had taken CalcAB in high school. He also later commented that he was glad to have had the class in college because it got used in a lot of other classes–finance classes of course, but also in some marketing classes etc.</p>
<p>If that is the point, here’s why I missed it: I can’t see anything that anybody outside the college could do about it other than complain, and I can’t see how my complaining on an Internet message board is going to do that unhappy freshman any good. </p>
<p>If that is the situation (and I can’t say that I know it is, since I know only what you told me that the parents told you that their son told them that the professor told him), then it’s a structural problem for this kid in this college, and it won’t get fixed quickly, if at all. Realistically, the student should either find a different college or figure out how he’ll cope with the status quo at his current school. </p>
<p>That sounds more callous than I want it to, and I am truly sorry about that. In my house we sometimes have to tell each other, “I don’t want advice. I just want to complain.” And sometimes that really is all a person is after, and that’s just human nature. But I didn’t realize that was what this thread was about. Sorry.</p>
<p>Personally, I think part of the problem is that so many parents here on CC (and presumably in real life) advise kids to retake calculus in college because the AP class might not have given them a solid grounding and/or they can get an easy A on their pre-med transcript. My oldest went to a college that gave a math placement exam over the summer - my son placed into a more advanced level of calculus and took it.</p>
<p>I like the idea of colleges offering multiple levels of calculus, so that those who have had some but inadequate exposure aren’t just repeating material, but there should be a solid first level course for students who only got as far as pre-calc in high school offered first semester.</p>
<p>Each school seems to have its own policy wrt how to handle freshmen who come in with greatly varied background levels.</p>
<p>Sometimes it is the school that advises to re-take. </p>
<p>Even if the school advises not to re-take, some will anyway and the level of instruction in any of the classes though diff eq can be geared to those who have either already covered much of the material in their high school classes or in DE classes and need a review or want an easy A.</p>
<p>One idea might be to defer calc classes until summer and take calc 1 and calc 2 in sequence in a summer class, which will probably be smaller. It is not unusual for students to get back on sequence by doing summer intro classes if they have run into trouble of any sort during the school year, especially during freshman year.</p>
<p>I agree with mathmom. The degree of difficulty, availability of Calc other than pre-Calc or AP Calc vary so much from high school to high school that it is indeed difficult to “group” the kids. I know in my son’s case he “tested” into a Calc class only to discover that all the kids (many sophomores) had already taken Calc either in high school or already once at the college. If a student is struggling it doesn’t necessarily mean they shouldn’t or can’t major in whatever stem field they are interested in, it simply means they may need to play catch-up. I remember back in the “olden” days I was shocked, absolutely shocked at things that my college freshman peers had studied in high school (that simply weren’t available to me at my small rural high school.) It’s not that difficult to “catch up” to your peers and by the end of sophomore year usually everyone in a major is on terra firma and ready to move on to the upper level classes.</p>
<p>OP, to be supportive to the parents just listen and commiserate. To be helpful I would agree with previous posters that it seems like this might better prepare the student for Calc. Many years ago I was placed in the top Calc 1 class and had problems keeping up with everyone else who had Calc in HS but didn’t place out of the class. After that semester I was dropped to a lower level Calc 2 class in which the prof explained things in more detail which worked out much better for me.</p>
<p>OP same concern here as DS is seriously considering two of the CTCL - can you PM me the name of the school?</p>
<p>I think mathmom’s advice is good. taking calc 1 and 2 over the summer would be a good choice if he can swing it.</p>
<p>I’ve found that our school’s adv calc class truly prepared the kids for the AP exam (we have no AP classes) and for college level calc 1 and 2. My oldest (soph in HS) took calc 2 at the state U over the summer and had a good time, though it was easy for him. Nothing new was presented until the last half of the class, but I wanted him to know that it was ok for him to take a college class at his age and do well. Now he is taking calc 3 at a small LAC (30 kids/class) and is finding it challenging. He has had to go to one study session, which was good for him in so many ways - he had hit a wall and needed help getting through a problem set. So even though he coasted through the first two calc classes (and gotten a 5 on the AP), he is finally being challenged by an great prof. The prof doesn’t use a textbook. He says that any calc text will do, and provides online note for each lecture. It is a much higher level of theory and teaching than he has previously received.</p>
<p>So even really good/smart kids can find a wall eventually. And that is a good thing. It gives them a good challenge to get over/through/around. The OP’s friend’s son may be hitting a wall, but that can be seen as a good thing, as it may help the kid in the long run by revealing foundational issues that need to be solved. And as mathmom suggested, the summertime may be a good time to get back on track.</p>
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<p>There is also the phenomenon of how students take calculus based on their math ability (granted, as assessed during middle school math placement decisions):</p>
<ul>
<li>Top students in math complete calculus BC in high school. Often, they take it as a one year college-pace course. Many of these students ace the course and AP test, go to college, take calculus 3, and don’t look back.</li>
<li>Merely good students in math complete calculus AB in high school. Since AB covers less material, they get introduced to calculus at a more gentle pace. Some do well on the AP test, go to college, and take calculus 2. Even those who do poorly on the AP test go to college and take calculus 1 having already seen the material before.</li>
<li>On-level students in math complete precalculus in high school. In first semester frosh year, they go to a full speed college calculus 1 course, often competing in the grading curve against the students who took calculus in high school but did not do well on the AP test (but have seen the material before). So even though the calculus 1 course does not assume previous calculus knowledge, it can be a rough transition for the on-level student.</li>
</ul>
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<p>Are you sure that this is actually the case, rather than a misinterpretation of third-hand information (as in the “game of telephone”)?</p>
<p>To the OP: if you do not want to name the college, can you go to the college’s web site and see what the following web pages on the college’s web site say?</p>
<ul>
<li>AP credit guidelines, particularly for AP calculus.</li>
<li>Math placement guidelines in general, including for those without AP calculus credit.</li>
</ul>
<p>so, he could take calc 101 in the spring, and calc 2 and calc 3 in the summer, and still be on time to declare and complete his major. Once through this sequence, he will not be behind students who started in the fall with calc 101, although he will have missed out on other summer opportunities.</p>
<p>One does not usually take calculus 2 and 3 concurrently, in the summer session or otherwise.</p>
<p>Some schools have two or occasionally even three summer sessions, with the classes taken sequentially in the summer, while others teach all math classes concurrently, or so we found when we looked into this.</p>
<p>It would depend on the schools and their schedules, and many colleges accept credits from a variety of other schools for calculus. Rose-Hulman even has a program that covers calc 1, calc 2. and calc 3 in one summer, that is designed for incoming freshmen who have taken AB calc in high school, but I think that particular program is limited to their own students.</p>
<p>If it is not possible to take both calc 2 and calc 3 in the same summer, calc 3 can often be taken alongside Diff Eq in the fall - at least at the schools I have seen, this type of doubling up is done on a farily regular basis by students who fall behind, change majors, or want to graduate early.</p>
<p>The advantage of summer classes, however, seems to be that they are generally smaller and students get better feed-back without having to seek out a tutor.</p>
<p>A former advisee of mine, excellent in Calc (AB) in HS, is at a similar college where everyone who’s taking Calc 101 has taken Calc AB in high school - and they’re all struggling (he emailed to say the class average on the first test was a 65 and whether it was normal for college). Among other things, I told him that 1° math in college is much tougher 2° profs pay attention to the way he writes his proofs 3° the final grades are likely curved, he should check with his professor (I can’t imagine a class of 20 where 10 students fail the class, which is the current “numerical” situation apparently).
At that college, there’s a sort of misnomer going on, but it’s just the way the school names its classes (as is its right): there’s a sort of Calc 1 class that includes precalc and intro to calc that is taken by students who’ve never taken Calculus before. This would be called Calc 101 elsewhere, but at that school it’s called Math 100. It may be taken by Humanities majors but they typically take another class numbered differently (like: 28 or 34). Although the “normal” sequence would be Calc 101, Calc 102, Calc 103, at that school it’s Math 100, then Calc 110, then Calc 120. They’re very clearly part of the same sequence, it’s just a matter of numbering. The catalog does not give clear indications but the advisers know.
Many students take Calculus in HS but what they’ve learned isn’t sufficient to skip Calculus 101: it would make sense to have a beginning calculus class for students who are in that situation, and an intro to calculus for students who have never taken Calculus -regardless of the way the college names the class.</p>
<p>As for OP: it sounds as if the students feels horrible about having to move “down” to the lower-level class, but what if it’s an “intro to calc” type of class? Wouldn’t that work better for him? Has he talked to his adviser and does the adviser know whether in fact the “lower level” class isn’t just the first level in the calculus sequence at that school, the class for students who haven’t already taken calculus (regardless of how it’s called, which I doubt is “Math for humanities”… Humanities major who don’t like math don’t take calculus, even lite)?
(OP: it’s the student’s responsibility to contact the adviser, not the math prof’s).
When is the end of drop/add period?</p>
<p>The student also sounds as if he feels he’s been "cheated’ out of his first-semester calc class. I’m not sure what the problem is, though.
I understand he thought he had registered for the right class, and if indeed his adviser didn’t know that class was meant for students who had already taken calculus he must have felt bad, but what if the adviser said “don’t take that class, it’s not the right level” and the student replied “I WANT TO take Calc I”? It sounds a bit like the student thinks that it’s his right to have the class be at his level, regardless of syllabus or prereqs. (His problem may be that there are no official pre-reqs. Not sure how he could deal with that). At the same time, we only have what someone else said about the situation, as nicely summed up by Sikorsky above (#26).
It seems unconscionable that there isn’t a class for someone who’s never taken Calculus in high school, though, considering most American students finish HS with precalculus (or less). THAT class is the one he should be enrolled in, regardless of name.</p>
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<p>Most colleges have just the latter calculus 1 course. Students with high school calculus but do not place into calculus 2 or higher just retake calculus 1.</p>
<p>It is highly unusual for the normal* calculus 1 course to require or assume high school calculus, although a student who has not had high school calculus may find the competition in the grading curve harder due to all of the students who have had high school calculus retaking calculus 1.</p>
<p>*As opposed to honors, if offered.</p>
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<p>I was hoping to share a few charts used in a couple of colleges that use SAT Math scores and AP Test scores to place in calc math classes. My point is that these decisions are not random. Math departments in some Colleges will use combinations of Math Placement Exam scores, SAT Math Scores, highest level of math taken in HS/ performance on AP Calc AB vs AP Calc BC etc to determine which math class would be appropriate for students. My hope was to share a couple of tables used by some colleges to help OP understand the decision. </p>
<p>OP, I think I understand your point now. I think part of the problem might be that the college admitted more students who took AP Calc than it does normally and / or discouraged them from taking AP credit. So, a lot of kids who should be in Calc II or III are being placed in Calc I. This is making it difficult for regular kids who should be in Calc I to do well. So professors might be asking students who did not take Calc in HS and possibly had low SAT Math scores to consider taking a slower math class. So, rather than looking at the curriculum description, the professor is using student background to decide which course to take. </p>
<p>I know my son who scored 5 on AP Calc BC, 5 on the AB sub score and 700+ on SAT Math & Math II was discouraged from taking AP credit. so he started in Calc I. Therefore, I can only imagine how kids with lower SAT scores and who did not take calculus in HS would feel if most kids in the class were like my son or stronger.</p>