<p>How does UNC admit their students? Are they using school rank or some holistic criteria? It sounds like they are doing kids a disservice if they are giving kids more weight for doing more APs since it assumes all schools have APs available in abundance.</p>
<p>It sounds like the study is precursor to saying no matter how many APs you take, we will only count your 5 best APs in evaluating your application. </p>
<p>The study seems to be a sham if the university assumed the students would do better in college if they did lots of APs and IBs prior to the study and admitted students accordingly.</p>
<p>Sorry, I do know this is off topic, and as parents there is absolutely nothing we can do about it, but why do high schools use a system like the one mentioned above by ProudPatriot’s school? It’s like 3 levels of “really good” (college prep, honors, and AP). Give me a break. I see that and think we all drank way too much of the self esteem Kool-Aid. </p>
<p>Now, my area school isn’t more enlightened. In fact, it is probably unranked by any group that does rankings. It’s over 50% free and reduced lunch and that percentage is climbing. While there aren’t metal detectors or anything, there’s a police officer on school property at all times. So, don’t be thinking I’m bragging about my kids’ school. I’m not. </p>
<p>But, if you want to take Calculus, you take Calculus. It used to be AP; now it’s DE. It’s the only game in town. There’s no honors level, no college prep level, no remedial level. There’s calculus. Period. A student is either ready for it or not.</p>
<p>^ Most large schools have 3 track programs with only about 25% following the highest track. However, if the schools are smaller, more selective (admission restricted using some magnet or vanguard or gifted criteria), they follow the the highest level possible for all their classes. </p>
<p>Where does your school fall in this spectrum?</p>
<p>Very interesting thread. Our hs offers 19 AP courses, I believe. By graduation, my S14 will have taken 6…but will have taken Honors classes leading to those AP classes, which carry the same weight. He is honestly frustrated by the classes that he has had to take that are not Honors or AP. The hs doesn’t officially rank except for valedictorian and salutatorian, but he is in the top 20 of a class of over 850 kids. With the way our hs structures their curriculum, he could probably graduate realistically with 9 AP classes (and I know the valedictorian and salutatorian will have taken more) under his belt, but when we scheduled, he decided to choose the AP courses that would be the most relevant to his interests (APBio, APChem, etc), so that he could, in his words, “have a life.” This year, there have been times when he has been so bogged down by homework, that having a life is still difficult! So, I can’t imagine what it may be like for those kids that take 10+ APs . S enjoys his ECs, and I think ultimately, when it comes time for college interviews and essays, the ECs will be the things that give him something to talk about! And, I wonder if UNC is simply trying to recognize that fact and stop some of the insanity…</p>
<p>soccerguy – Implying that there is a relationship between UNC’s admissions policies and a physics professor who is under house arrest in Argentina is quite a stretch!</p>
<p>Most entering UNC students that I have known in the last few years have taken well over five AP courses. It sounds as if the result of the study surprised the researchers, and UNC is revising its admissions policies as a result.</p>
<p>ucb – Our high school is on the semester schedule (as are many NC public schools), so all our AP courses are completed in one semester. They are much faster paced, as they would be in college. Also, what is an “AP lite” for one student or at one school may be a killer for another student or at a different school. In our school AP Calc (both semesters), AP English III, AP Chem, AP US History, and AP US Government are VERY hard. The STEM-oriented students tend to avoid AP English III, US History, and Government like the plague because of the very extensive and demanding writing assignments. Likewise, the humanities types rarely take AP Chem and Calc. All the other APs are popular with both groups.</p>
<p>texaspg – UNC’s admissions department seeks to accept students who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at their schools. Students who do not have APs at their schools aren’t penalized for not having APs available. I’ve known some excellent students from more rural counties who have been admitted to UNC with no APs because those simply weren’t available.</p>
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<p>Collegefortwins – This is right on target. Actually, UNC has been having an internal discussion about this for years.</p>
<p>^^Who said colleges need to gauge college performance solely on AP classes. Generally you don’t even report the scores until you decide which college will be attended. Our little high school does just fine putting top kids into top places with 5 AP classes and zero classes called “honors.” The high school profile tells the colleges which classes are “rigorous” but there’s no class numbers or class names that differentiate other than the 5 AP classes with names like AP US History etc.</p>
<p>If all those AP Courses(AP Physics, AP Chemistry, AP Economics, etc…) are considered “lite” then which APs are not considered “lite”? You seem to be suggesting that all APs could be considered easy. My normal public school offers over 25 APs and I will have taken 15 of them. The ones I have taken are probably the hardest at my school. AP Chemistry gives credit for two semesters of College Chemistry if you get a five, so it is not in any way “lite”.</p>
<p>I’m confused. It would seem how you did in your AP classes would be more indicative of success verses how many you took. It doesnt seem that was taken into consideration at all.</p>
<p>I’m sure it is one factor UNC looks at, as part of the “rigor” factor. What they seem to have found is that kids who take 5 APs tend to have higher COLLEGE GPA than those who haven’t, but taking 10 doesn’t predict a higher college GPA?</p>
<p>ipodsinger, wow! 15 is a whole lot of AP classes. I can’t even imagine! At my S’s hs, that wouldn’t even be possible because there wouldn’t be enough time in his schedule to get all of his graduation requirements in such as fine arts, Financial lit, Health, etc, not to mention Geometry, Precalc, etc. Did you take courses over the summer? Just wondering how that works in other schools/states…</p>
<p>UNC has said that its admissions office wants to see students taking the most rigorous courses that their schools offer. They understand that not all schools offer a lot of APs and that some schools offer none. Therefore, when they are looking at an application from a student at one of those schools, they look at whether that student has challenged him or herself academically as much as he/she could AT THAT SCHOOL.</p>
<p>When UNC reviews applications from students from schools with many APs, they have looked to see whether those students took a lot of APs – again, the most rigorous curriculum that THAT SCHOOL offers.</p>
<p>UNC, like many other schools that do the same thing, does not want to penalize students in the admission process because their schools do not offer many APs. Obviously, this means that some students come in to UNC with no APs and some come with 12-15.</p>
<p>The study was to see whether those students with mega APs were any better prepared for college than students with fewer APs. It seems that students with five APs were better prepared than students with none, but students who had over five were not overall any better prepared than those with five. Thus, UNC is rethinking its admission policy of looking for large numbers of APs on the transcripts of students who are in schools that offer large numbers of APs.</p>
<p>This has been a conversation for years at UNC. There is a concern that in the race to get more and more APs, students are not taking the opportunity to enrich themselves by learning another language or taking more courses in art, debate, forensics, etc. At the same time, it’s a hard situation to get out of. How can a college encourage students to take the most rigorous curriculum possible yet emphasize the importance of enriching non-AP courses?</p>
<p>Collegefortwins – I think a lot depends on whether schools are on the block (semester) system. Those that are generally offer four courses a semester, so a student can take eight courses a year. In our school, it would be possible to get up to 16 APs just in the last two years, although generally I hear of 10-12 among the top students because they are fulfilling language, math, P.E., and other requirements.</p>
<p>I’ve never believed the assertions that “no APs when a school doesn’t offer them isn’t held against you”. Unless such a student has something else strongly going for him, he had better have dones something in terms of showing that he can take rigorous courses. </p>
<p>Most schools use a point system of sorts when evaluating an admissions packet. I believe all UNC is saying is that it will max out the points given for AP courses, once they see 5 APs taken. Whether they look to see which APs they are and other details, are not addressed in all of this. </p>
<p>If you go to a school where it’s a matter of course for the top kids to be taking all AP courses or close to it and you are not, then you are not taking the most rigorous courses offered. That’s by definition.</p>
<p>In other words, perhaps those schools that only offer 5 or 6 AP courses are providing quality over quantity. If they’re accepting students with 5 AP from schools than only offer a small handful, but 10-12 from schools that offer 25 or more, it may not even be so much a question of whether students taking 10 are more prepared, but whether schools that offer 25 AP classes are preparing students well. </p>
<p>Consider 3 different groups:</p>
<p>Group A attends a school offering 7 AP classes, and each student in this group took 5
Group B attends a school offering 25 AP classes, and each student in this group also took 5
Group C attends a school offering 25, and each student takes 10-12 AP classes.</p>
<p>If they’re only comparing students in groups A and C, they might come to a different conclusion than if they also include students from Group B. Their inclination to expect students to take the most rigorous load offered may still be a good one, if the quality of classes at school B/C is low.</p>
<p>That makes sense. Our hs is on trimesters, which makes for really messy scheduling and is limiting. Some AP classes are two tris, some are three, which really limits the number a student can fit in, when combined with all other requirements. They’re switching to semesters…the year after DS14 graduates. :(</p>
<p>Colleges truly do not care about APs; they just want to see a rigorous curriculum. My sons’ high school (private, doesn’t rank) got rid of APs when S1 was in ninth grade. The administration claimed AP classes were “a mile wide and an inch deep” and that teachers were forced to teach to the test, rather than get kids to think. </p>
<p>Courses were replaced with a handful of weighted honors and “advanced studies” classes, including Organic Chem, Great Books and Calc BC. Students are discouraged from taking more than three honors/advanced courses per semester, and the school makes that clear on its profile.</p>
<p>Both parents and students are thrilled with the new system - More grads than ever have been admitted to HYPSM and other top schools (including UNC OOS), and students who have chosen to take AP exams for college credit do just as well as when the AP classes were offered.</p>
<p>Abolishing APs has become a trend all over the country, even at elite public high schools. After meeting a couple last week whose daughter had taken 26 (!) APs and was absolutely drowning, I feel very grateful for my kids’ experience.</p>