<p>Those parents who were in the Supt's briefing probably learned that there will be no overnight leave for PPW. The last few years the plebes have been allowed to stay with parents but I guess the new Supe and/or Commandant decided to change it. Well, i guess a few hours is better than nothing. Good luck to all the Plebe parents. Aug. 10 can't get here quick enought.</p>
<p>That's too bad.
There are many petty things about bureaucrats, I think this is a perfect example. [Spare us all the "training" of it all; they're in the Navy, etc. As one, now, firstie told me: "A lot of the Plebe system is just plain dumb, it contributes nothing to being a better leader . . . " etc., etc., etc.]
Oh, well . . . enjoy what you can.</p>
<p>I don't know which is more humorous here, a firstie who thinks he has the system figured out or a parent blindly critiquing it. Did you ever consider that the Administration just might know what they are doing?</p>
<p>Explain to us, since we don't have the benefit of any administration here, how one night, after a long plebe summer, makes any difference?</p>
<p>Just perhaps the new administration is utilizing that old leadership axiom that privileges must be earned.</p>
<p>Just my two cents:</p>
<p>Since the Academy itself stresses how rigorous and demanding Plebe Summer is coupled with the fact that otherwise deemed qualified candidates by the Admissions Office still choose to drop out during Plebe Summer, I believe that those who remain and survive Plebe Summer have "earned" their privilege of an overnight leave. Besides, Naval Recruits get two weeks off (either after "A" School or immediately after recruit training) and many of them are probably the same age as those undergoing Plebe Summer, so I don't see why the new administration decided to deny those hard working plebes their once held privilege.</p>
<p>spectrez, USNA Midshipmen do not earn privileges by "surviving". They earn them by excelling. Maybe if they excel this summer, Administration might change its mind.</p>
<p>Hey now, the plebes had 75 minutes to say, "Goodbye," on I-Day. Plus, they didn't have to carry their bag-o-stuff as far this year. An overnight is no biggie, anyways. PPW just ruins the wonderful daily organized schedule of plebe summer, which is either good or bad---depending on the plebe. Change is good...even if it's bad.</p>
<p>I've heard of a few drop-outs already. Some kids were bawling their eyes out as they marched back to the hall. Plebe summer was fun. Plus, they know they have the fourth of July celebration coming up soon.</p>
<p>The drop outs on I-day **** me off because there are so many that desperately WANT to be in like Kreigs etc...the admissions officer should have called Kreigs after the first drop out to REPLACE that duffus.</p>
<p>USNA69, I have a little scenario for you: Naval Academy Graduate A and Naval Academy Graduate B are both members of the same class. Naval Academy Graduate A graduated at the top of his or her class through hard work and determination while Naval Academy Graduate B graduated at the bottom of his or her class through half a*sing everything and doing the bare minimum. Regardless of their Naval Academy records, both earned the privilege of calling themselves Naval Academy Graduates because they indeed both graduated. Now if the saying "2.0 and go" is true, then did Naval Academy Graduate B truly excel or did he merely survive? He still earned the privilege of calling himself a Naval Academy graduate because he graduated alongside Naval Academy Graduate A. So based on your definition of excelling, do you think Naval Academy Graduate B who did the bare minimum to graduate in all aspects excelled? Do you believe he earned his graduation?</p>
<p>I believe the same thinking can be applied to Plebe Summer- sure some may do more well than others but all would have had to excel at some point to meet the rigorous standards. I still feel for the Plebes right now who lost the privilege earlier classes has.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
<p>The answer still doesn't explain how one night off makes any difference in the training schedule? But, then,</p>
<p>Is USNA69 suggesting that the Orioles night should only be granted to those that "earn" that night off? Is this night off somehow important to the furtherance of the training mission? Morale booster?<br>
Couldn't the same be said about a night off with the parents?
Or is just the same ol' bulls coming out and saying that "since I had to suffer, everybody else should to!"
Backing up even further, extending that logic, air-conditioning shouldn't have been installed in Bancroft because, by God, I was able to pass w/out air and so can your kids.
From what I understand, morale for the plebes was improved over previous years by having a night out.</p>
<p>Now . . .if administration wants to put it out as a carrot, e.g. "Class of 2001, beat previous year's PE workouts and you get a night out w/ the parents," then your assertion would hold water; that is, class is earning a privilege.
Otherwise, it appears Admin is taking a step back for no good reason.
Oh, but we wouldn't understand because we didn't attend the Academy and, therefore, wouldn't understand.</p>
<p>This is similar to the other Academies, who, for example, prohibit care packages during the summer. For what reason? Even soldiers in the field get care packages. Oh, that's right, we're taking away the basic dignities in life so we can teach them to be better leaders.</p>
<p>Did I consider the administration might know what they are doing? Yes. In the same way that governmental administrations for many, many years seem to "know what they are doing" and then end up screwing things up. That doesn't mean I can't still think the actions of bureaucrats are petty.</p>
<p>Now that we've established your belief that the night out is a privilege that should not be earned merely by completing plebe summer, I ask again, tell us how one night out might interfere or be harmful to the training regimen?</p>
<p>Bill, You have no idea why they did it. I have no idea why they did it. You assume it is petty bueaucracy. I assume it is part of a plan. I was simply trying to limit your attempt to appear foolish. Apparently I have failed.</p>
<p>While the overnight during PPW was a nice bonus, in the big scheme of things it really did not break- or make- the weekend-</p>
<p>what really mattered for us is that we got some time to spend it as a family again- just having dinner in annapolis "all together" was so worth the trip down! </p>
<p>and while having him overnight was great, our visit would have not been less great even if he had to return to Bancroft-</p>
<p>having said that, what really mattered to us was the ability to get off the yard for a bit- even if it was to just walk around town- eating in a real resturant- seeing our son laugh and relax a bit...</p>
<p>and even though we could not help but notice our mid's eyes darting here and there (I don't think I have ever seen him more "aware" of his surroundings...the who, what, where and when...)...it did not distract from what was an exceptional opportunity to spend time with our son.</p>
<p>My only complaint is that the weekend went far too fast-
although we did our best to "bulk him up" a bit from the weight dropped over plebe summer.... despite all the carepackages!</p>
<p>So for the parents heading down to PPW this year, enjoy what you get....don't lament it is not more (no matter how much you get it will never be enough anyway).... but make the most of the time you do get and enjoy every second of it!!!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I was simply trying to limit your attempt to appear foolish. Apparently I have failed.
[/quote]
USNA69 in reality you are the one here who appears foolish that you for some reason cannot grasp that things can change and just possibly some of the changes have been for the better. </p>
<p>spectrez589 is right on the money...</p>
<p>Surviving Plebe summer is an accomplishment. Every 4/C who survives Plebe Summer and joins the brigade on August 16 has EARNED that right, yes, just by surviving!</p>
<p>spectrez589 brilliant analogy</p>
<p>As far as drop outs don't be so quick to judge until you walk in their shoes! One never knows what one’s reaction will be to a situation until looking it in the face. Yes, even the best, brightest and most prepared have melt downs on I Day - certainly does not make them any less deserving than the Plebe who does not. Most will make it through the day. For those who struggle the chaplains help immensely, for those who come to a different conclusion they will struggle with that decision for a very long time. Until you have been there you really have no room to judge.</p>
<p>Before the PPW for the class of 2008, nobody ever got an overnight for plebe parents weekend. Just like singing at formal parades it is hopefully something that has come and gone. The "survival" thing at the naval academy is something that needs to be revamped. Your goal isnt to survive but like somebody else said to excel. There is a lack of a will to excel. Many lead themselves to believe that graduating makes you a good officer. Its about exceling and wanting to be the best. Everybody is not a winner. Sure this has little to do with a overnight of parents weekend but with things like plebe recognition ceremonies which look more and more like graduation every year, many think making it through plebe year means you dont have to do anything the rest of the time. Sure you may be the same rank when you graduate but you will be a much better officer if you want to excel and not just survive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is USNA69 suggesting that the Orioles night should only be granted to those that "earn" that night off? Is this night off somehow important to the furtherance of the training mission? Morale booster?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not sure, but we were fed lines along:
1. Learn how to wear summer whites...and don't get them too dirty.
2. Test the plebes to see if they're worthy of conducting themselves in a professional manner in public.</p>
<p>Failed #1. Train.
Failed #2. Train.</p>
<p>All things have a purpose, right?</p>
<p>Dang it! Every time I think I'm done posting around here, someone starts a thread that I just HAVE to reply to!</p>
<p>USNA69 is dead-on in his assessment that the most likely cause for this change is the horrible idea (to some, at any rate) that privleges must be earned. He is also spot-on right in that things can change between then and now.</p>
<p>Those who have been through the system (and the Firstie who was paraphrased above was right in this regard) know that the Plebe System in general, and Plebe Summer in particular, are rife with requirements and evolutions that are meant to be just plain stupid. They serve no purpose other than to tick the Plebes off.</p>
<p>Or do they?</p>
<p>No, one night away from USNA will not increase their value as officers or leaders, but it WILL teach them an early lesson about having to deploy and leave family behind. Why not learn it sooner rather than later? Why give them that hope that "at the end of all this, we're getting a day off no matter how well we do?" It is far better to make them think they're NOT getting it, and then surprising them by giving it to them anyway. OTOH, if they DON'T earn it, then welcome to the wonderful world of RHIP.</p>
<p>You know how many times we pulled into port after weeks at sea only to find that our duty section was on watch that first night? That's life in the Navy, ladies and gentlemen! Get used to it!</p>
<p>So..... some snot-nosed cowards have quit ALREADY, eh? Geez! Did they think they were going to Disney World or something? More wasted billets! :mad:</p>
<p>Could not of said it better. The academy is not meant to be a feel good institution. Its an institution to develop combat leaders. Goes along the lines of having parents at sea trials.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Profmom, are you joining Bill in his wild a$$ assumption that it can be nothing other than un-thought-out petty bureaucracy and then continue to make the same totally ridiculous assumptions about why I think the way that I do?</p>
<p>We have no clue as to why they did it and to assume that it is the end of the Academy as you know it, is ludicrous. It's no big deal. Some parents actually may get to spend a little more time on the Yard and see a few things.</p>
<p>If the new Dant or Supe wants it this way -- well, she and he (respectively) are in charge. At the end of the day, in the military, you're at the "mercy" of your CO. In general, that person is put in command b/c TPTB believe he/she is extremely capable. When COs change, life can change. COs have changed; one tiny aspect of plebe life has changed. That's life in the military.</p>
<p>I'm sure it's disappointing for the parents and maybe the plebes, but it's really not the end of the world. Personally, I don't think an overnight makes a bit of difference in PPW. We didn't have it in our day and I can't say it would have mattered either way. I was happy to see my family and proud of what I'd accomplished. I was used to sleeping in Mother B (sans A/C). In fact, at a certain level, I think it's easier NOT to see another home for awhile -- but that's me.</p>
<p>I'm also not one of those who believes things can't or shouldn't change. For example, we didn't have Sea Trials at the end of plebe summer and I think they're probably a good thing. Change can be good but tradition is also important.</p>
<p>One of the things you quickly learn in the military is to go with the flow. Many times in my military career, things happened and my mother (a military wife, but she never personally served) would occasionally get upset. My dad (a WWII Marine and USAF officer) always said that I should just deal with it. He was right. If you get upset over something as minor on the vast scheme of things as this, you have a VERY long 9+ years ahead of you.</p>